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NEWS: Funimation Addresses Dance in the Vampire Bund Edits


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firedragon54738



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 3113
Location: wisconsin
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:51 pm Reply with quote
Funi really fucked them selfs this time so many people against this editing
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PetrifiedJello



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 3782
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:25 pm Reply with quote
bayoab wrote:
What defines "most"?

On this very website, it's not too difficult to find those who object to the underage panty shots and nudity growing in anime. Since ANN can offer only a subset of those who watch anime, it's a safe bet than when most here object, the same conclusion can be derived from all of those who watch. It may not be accurate, but sample data rarely is.

We could start a poll to ask people what they feel about this stuff. Would people be willing to concede, that if that poll favors the dissatisfaction of this type of content, that FUNimation's decision was valid?
Of course, that poll will now be skewed with inaccuracies, if only now it'll be read as censorship approval, rather than the true nature of the poll regarding content.


Quote:
The rating was never meant to identify the content.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. Ratings are primarily attributed to the following factors: sex, nudity, drugs, language, and violence.
As an adult, my definition of sex and nudity preclude me to believe I'm to view adult situations, not those featuring children.

Quote:
Should media list every single potentially controversial scene that exists in a title?

Would make for one hell of a DVD case, wouldn't it? Wink

Quote:
...has the potential for offend a sizable portion, not every single detail that may offend someone.

Agreed, but those same details are bound within an expected level of offense. In other words, people who see an "R" rating on a movie aren't going in to view with an expectation of seeing a naked girl having oil rubbed on her by an adult male. Blow this expectation, and watch the fallout ensue.
Which is evident when games and movies are given much higher ratings over the standard "R", and are re-edited in order to obtain the correct rating.

Quote:
...doing one's homework before one buys.

And just where are they going to find "This series contains depictions of an underage girl in a scene which may be offensive. View discretion is advised." when they're shopping online for potential titles to buy? More importantly, how many anime shoppers would come to ANN to find it? If the information isn't readily made available, it's tough to do "homework".

The "Mature" rating in anime is the expectation such shots are inclusive, given there's so much of it. But the oil rubbing scene?

Quote:
Interesting, a reversed slippery slope argument.

Not when it comes to the depictions of underage characters.

Trust me when I tell you I absolutely detest the transformation scenes in Nanoha. Not because of the nudity (if one can even call it that), but the fact we're constantly reminded she's in the 3rd grade.

Quote:
I'm not going to impose my individual line nor my local one on you or others and theoretically expect the same from others.

Not to be defensive, but yes, you are. If you're advocating this scene to remain, you are imposing your line onto those who are against it. As you can tell, there is no way to win this argument regardless what position one takes.

Damned if you object, damned if you don't. Wink
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dngrx



Joined: 13 Aug 2008
Posts: 21
Location: NZ
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:35 pm Reply with quote
PetrifiedJello wrote:

I've not seen the entire series, I only went by the link presented earlier (I did fast forward the video in 5 min increments). I did not see these girls you posted.

Well, I assumed you've seen the show as you said this-
PetrifiedJello wrote:

Mimi isn't a little girl, either.

...clearly you haven't, so care to explain how you had an opinion of Mimi's appearance in the first place?

Anyway, the pictures were more of a comparison shot for the two characters being mentioned. Mostly to show that there are similarities in the appearance of Mimi and Mina Tepes in terms of how old they look.

Mimi

Mina


PetrifiedJello wrote:

But more importantly, were these girls shown visually to be engaging in adult affairs or was it implied? Big difference here.

It is certainly visible and not implied, of course this isn't a hentai, so, there's no penetration shown but Mimi is displayed naked and given oral...is how I'd describe one of a few scenes she's involved in.

EDIT: After posting this, I just realized I listened today at work to ANNCast's, "Don't hate the Cosplayer" podcast, wondering how Charlene Ingram felt about those particular scenes involving Mimi.
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chicogrande



Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 190
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:51 pm Reply with quote
So I flipped over the first three manga volumes at my local B&N to see what the fuss is about. Granted, Manga is not animation, but usually animation tends to go farther than what is in Manga.

I think the issue for Funimation is that the male character made contact with the skin of the offending female in question. He rubbed her silky back and around the rib cage and felt the flat side-boob. He rubbed and rubbed sending sparks of electricity through his trobbing.....
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PetrifiedJello



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 3782
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:01 pm Reply with quote
dngrx wrote:
...clearly you haven't, so care to explain how you had an opinion of Mimi's appearance in the first place?

Someone posted an image of the series (originally) a while ago in this thread featuring two girls. I had figured the young one was Mimi which, from my perspective, did not look anything like a little girl.

Quote:
but Mimi is displayed naked and...

There's a scene similar in Ikki Tousen but I don't recall any touching in it. You can bet the scene definitely implied what was going on. There's also another violation scene, but again, no touching of the act itself. Were these scenes similar?

For some reason, I get the impression the edited scene of Bund wasn't implied at all.
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dngrx



Joined: 13 Aug 2008
Posts: 21
Location: NZ
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:38 pm Reply with quote
PetrifiedJello wrote:

from my perspective, did not look anything like a little girl.

That's fine and totally understandable. But this whole editing situation evolved from how FUNi believes there are people out there, less knowledgeable of the content, for example Rin, could easily take particular scenes out of context, such as those involving Mimi. Which could easily be interpreted as a grown women taking advantage of a young girl...

So, while you think Mimi doesn't look like a little girl, I in the same token don't look at Mina Tepes as a little helpless child.

And I must say this, I really couldn't care less about VB, so I'm in no way defending it, the show is pretty mediocre tbh. I just find this whole situation bizarre.

PetrifiedJello wrote:

There's a scene similar in Ikki Tousen but I don't recall any touching in it. You can bet the scene definitely implied what was going on. There's also another violation scene, but again, no touching of the act itself. Were these scenes similar?

Well, I gotta leave it up to someone else to review those particular scenes again as I really don't feel the urge to watch Rin again to scan for those scenes, sorry. But from memory there was definitely touching involved....I don't know what kind of details you're looking for? You're best off watching the stream supplied, I can't review them myself as I'm not located in America. If anything the lotion scene in VB is mild in comparison to what's in Rin, from memory, yet surprisingly all went unedited.
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dragonrider_cody



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 2541
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:22 pm Reply with quote
You know an article on Mania/AoD brings up an excellent point, and one I don't think many of us have considered. Funimation just announced this last week, but that doesn't mean they just acquired it last week. In fact, its much more likely that they've had it for several weeks, even owning the license before the Hanley verdict came down.

In that case, it's highly unlikely, though not completely out of the question, that the Hanley verdict had little impact on their decision to edit. It's also quite likely that the delay in streaming the title was due to preparing the edits and getting permission to use them. It does take time to review a title, prepare the edits, and ultimately get permission to use them.

I think this may be a case where Funi is more afraid of upsetting it's retail partners. It can be quite hard to sell a dubbed anime series without B&M support, especially when you loose Best Buy. The scale back in anime purchasing there is a large part of the reasoning behind sub-only titles, and likely is having an impact here. Some eyebrows have been raised by several of their titles like Strike Witches and Rin, and they likely don't want to step on any more toes with this one. Let's face it, it's highly unlikely that many B&M stores would carry Vampire Bund uncensored.

AoD Article: http://www.mania.com/vampire-bund-edits-draw-reaction_article_121081.html
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PetrifiedJello



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 3782
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:34 pm Reply with quote
dngrx wrote:
I just find this whole situation bizarre.

That pretty much sums it up. Smile
As for watching Rin, I'll pass. Something about this series doesn't seem like it'll appeal to me in the least bit, especially reading the information in the Encyclopedia.

Not that I'm against it at all. Wink

Though, I guess I'll stop mentioning it for any reference. It's pretty difficult to stand on a position when the first thing one utters is "I've not seen the content in question". I just went by what was presented to me. Not an excuse, but you did call me out on it, so it was justified to explain it.
Smile
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Dorcas_Aurelia



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 5344
Location: Philly
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:36 pm Reply with quote
PetrifiedJello wrote:
Dorcas_Aurelia wrote:
Except Mimi in Mnemosyne...

Mimi isn't a little girl, either.

Yeah, she looks all of 14 years old instead of 10. That totally makes it appropriate. [/sarcasm] So where exactly is the cut-off?

Quote:
Also, and really not to open another can of worms, our society is more "acceptable" to girl-on-girl than it will ever be to a grown man-on-girl.

Trying to apply girl-on-girl inappropriate touching being less squick-inducing than guy-on-girl inappropriate (but consensual) touching simply illuminates a double-standard. It's okay to show a girl being sexually abused by a woman, but not a girl to attempt to seduce a man? Is there a rational explanation for this?


PetrifiedJello wrote:
dngrx wrote:
I'd say both look like little girls...

I've not seen the entire series, I only went by the link presented earlier (I did fast forward the video in 5 min increments). I did not see these girls you posted.

But more importantly, were these girls shown visually to be engaging in adult affairs or was it implied? Big difference here.

The video clip wasn't even two minutes long, you should have just watched the whole thing. If you had, you'd have obviously Mimi (the purple-ish white haired girl) rather loudly protesting being forced to endure sex with another woman.


egoist wrote:
Lastly, the Japanese broadcast was also censored, yet you people watched it? WTF? What's going on?

Japan, however, is getting the unedited show released on DVD. R1, as the situation currently stands, is not. That is the complaint.
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ConanSan



Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 1818
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:43 pm Reply with quote
You know, we can have young girls being murderkilled to death in Higurashi just fine but as soon as tits are involved all bets are off.
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rinkwolf10



Joined: 05 Apr 2009
Posts: 750
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:05 pm Reply with quote
I just want to congradulate everyone with this 602 comment on this thread. We have done it. There is more comments on this thread then any other that I've see on ANN. This thread has more replies to it then the thread that said ADV Films is closing down. This has to get Funimations attention. Laughing
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Bundsman



Joined: 08 Mar 2010
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:06 pm Reply with quote
Check out this load of paranoid right-wing BS, blaming "progressives" for this decision.
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jsc315



Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 925
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:42 pm Reply with quote
Conan-san wrote:
You know, we can have young girls being murderkilled to death in Higurashi just fine but as soon as tits are involved all bets are off.

Boobs of a young girl and murder are 2 completely different things. I really hope you understand what you are actually saying here?
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23669
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:59 pm Reply with quote
Gee, I wonder if this topic will come up in this week's ANNCast? Laughing
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Drunk_Samurai



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 133
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:13 pm Reply with quote
jsc315 wrote:
Conan-san wrote:
You know, we can have young girls being murderkilled to death in Higurashi just fine but as soon as tits are involved all bets are off.

Boobs of a young girl and murder are 2 completely different things. I really hope you understand what you are actually saying here?


He's saying censorship is bullshit no matter what is being censored.
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