Forum - View topicShelf Life - MMMHolic
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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No, no, s/he can't buy it! If s/he hates it, s/he'll blame me.
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fuuma_monou
 Posts: 1817 Location: Quezon City, Philippines |
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Doesn't the Anime Network stream stuff? Not sure if they have any Sentai proper releases, though, rather tan old ADV titles. |
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vashfanatic
 Posts: 3489 Location: Back stateside |
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Plus I am poor and need to save the money for things that I know I'll love (like more of 20th Century Boys). Now, if my library had it...
Yeah, here is the first place I checked, doesn't look like they have it.
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erinfinnegan
ANN Columnist
 Posts: 598 |
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There's the way we use the word "pervy" in a slang sense; anything sexual is "pervy," but the more dictionary definition of the word "perverted": "relating to or practicing sexual activities considered unusual or unacceptable". I hate it in Love Hina when Keitaro is accused of being a pervert (this happens constantly). I mean, when he accidentally sees naked women and his nose bleeds, that's hardly a perverted act. I realize part of the joke is that he's often wrongly accused, I just don't think that part of the joke is funny. Kanako has a lot of sexual fantasies on a daily basis, however, the nature of her fantasies is not terribly perverse. That is, unless you consider all lesbian acts to be perverted because they deviate from sexual norms. Ping Pong Club is filled with characters having actual sincerely perverted thoughts, like stuff with candles and bondage. Kanako's motive for attending the school, to find love, isn't perverted. Most people want to find love. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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*adds Ping Pong Club to "must see" list*
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championferret
 Posts: 765 |
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I've been following this Maria+Holic discussion for a while, shaking my head in disbelief, and I think it's time I add my worthless spare change because the naysayers of this show seem to have missed quite a few things in their accusations.
1. Argument 1: 'show is about a lesbian being teased for being a lesbian' Kanako is not teased for being a lesbian. Mariya teases her because she knows his identity, which scares him. Of course, he can be a little sadistic but like others said, he does show a compassionate side, rarely. Obviously this is a character you are going to like or hate...but i honestly don't see much of a difference between him and Light from Death Note, and not many people complain about him being horrible (in my experience, anyway. I happen to think he's incredibly unpleasant, for the record, however I do like Mariya because I find his split-personality amusing) There are other people that tease Kanako, but again, not for being a lesbian. A girl called Ryuken is very nice to her, which sets of the rage of the Ryuken fanclub, who then bully her out of jealousy. However, their methods of 'bullying' are more amusing than anything else (with one exception I will mention shortly); they slip sea products into her bag and desk, which in some cases, works to her benefit. Argument 2; the show is anti-lesbian This is something that really confuses me, to be honest, although admittedly after reading some of the...passionate posts from haters of the show it makes a bit more sense. Kanako's obsession with girls is sometimes presented as abnormal or wrong. However, like others i have to also back the idea that it is her OBSESSIVENESS that is looked down on, not the act of being gay herself. She is, clearly, a female version of a perverted harem male lead. Why? Because the show is a parody. If you have seen many other yuri anime/manga at all-girls schools, the majority are cookie-cutter, paper thin waif-like characters (which is more offensive?) -a lead that acts like the poor, confused young woman Kanako thinks she is and a love interest that is generally exactly like the 'selfless angel' she at first thought Mariya was. These two character-types have been greatly inverted - completely reversed, almost- for parody purposes. One more thing...Kanako is not the only lesbian in the show. The Ryuken fanclub seem to have a crush on Ryuken, and they are never made fun of for this.(just presented as overly-jealous, although the same thing happens with the Priest-fanclub later in the series) Saying the show is anti-lesbian and only using Kanako as an example is a flawed argument I think. argument 3: the 'humour' is at the expense of the torture of a young lesbian I dont know how many episodes people who make this claim have watched, because Kanako's 'bullying' at the hands of mariya is far from the only comedy in the show. I happen to find this show absolutely hilarious....and the most hilarious segments have nothing to do with bullying or lesbians or anything; it's the stuff that comes out of the dorm-mistresses mouth, or the stuff that comes out of the Priest's head, and a lot more. One of the funniest scenes from the series in my opinion was when a 'forbidden closet' opened to reveal an avalanche of obsolete game consoles; total nerd humour there. Kanako's bullying is funny -sometimes-, but sometimes it does get old. The only time I found it not funny at all, sadenning even, was a sequence when the Ryuken fanclub pretended to throw Mariya's pendant, which Kanako had to protect, out the window into the rain, and Kanako had to search for it in the rain whilst it was really safely inside. However, this scene was one of the few which was not for comedy purposes at all, and so evoked a lot of sympathy in me. Many people go back to the 'rape' joke, but i personally think they're overreacting a little, although rape is a sensitive subject for many. But I highly, highly doubt Mariya actually planned on raping her. He says something like "if you tell anyone, i'll rape you'. A lot of people had a problem with this...but i'll admit it, I laughed. Not because rape is funny, but because it seemed like such a ridiculous threat coming from Mariya, in his totally girly getup. It was made pretty obvious to me that he had no intention of doing this, he was just using Kanako's fear of males to his advantage, and also a way to show his vulgar personality beneath his sweet appearance. I understand that there are people that will never, ever find this funny, but I don't think it's fair to hate an entire show from one line. there's also the hives thing which people find unrealistic or an 'insulting' reason for one to become a lesbian. Again, this is a parody show, and I believe this is a parody of that annoying trope of a 'reason' for being gay which seems to happen in almost 90% of yuri/yaoi series. (in another thread, someone mentioned kashimashi, which features a character who is gay because she can't see men.) As well as being ridiculous, the hives were also Kanako's first indication to Mariya being male. argument 4: No real lesbian could ever like this show. I am not a lesbian. However, a good friend of mine is, and she loved this show for its inversion of yuri tropes. She told me she generally hates a lot of yuri shows for their saccharine sweetness and unbelievability, so it was 'refreshing' seeing this made fun of. Granted she also has a soft-spot for traps, vintage shojo artwork and Shaft. Another lesbian friend of mine has only read the manga, but she liked it as well. I should ask her more about it, because all she's really said is 'it's pretty funny and the art is nice'. 'argument' 5: Anyone who likes this show or found it funny is a horrible, misogynist person and i dont want to associate with them ever. Statements like this, which I encounter with 90% of the shows nay-sayers, are a hundred times more hurtful and insulting than any anime or manga could ever be.
.....I hate to sound mean, but you must not have watched that many episodes. Kanako -does- plan on revealing his identity. In fact, in the last episode spoiler[ there is a scene where she turns deliciously sadistic and starts planning to do just this by removing his swimsuit to expose his fake breasts in front of the other students. However, this plan does backfire when the swimsuit she removed turned out to be Shizu's, his identical twin sister. However saying that she 'just takes' all the abuse is wrong.] I also don't think Kanako is particularly insecure about her sexuality. A lot of people seem to be on about how 'she will end up with Mariya, which is insulting', and i don't know where they got this idea from. Nothing in the anime suggests this, unless it's in the manga, which I have only read the first volume of. I will admit this would be incredibly disappointing, but mostly because this series is a comedy and not a romance. Sorry for the wall of text, I just really needed to get that out of my system. I am not trying to make any of the people who hate this show like it. I am just trying to address their problems with the show and try to tell them that it is not as horrible as they seem to believe, because I believe their hatred of the show is unfair. Most importantly, I believe that it is insulting, hateful and hurtful that so many of the people that dislike this show seem to think anyone who does enjoy it or find it funny is anti-gay or misogynistic or 'horrible' in some way. |
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eyeresist
 Posts: 995 Location: a 320x240 resolution igloo (Sydney) |
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No, read the thread; that's not what happens. |
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giascle
 Posts: 157 Location: Denver |
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@ championferret
thank you my god I don't even know what to add; you pretty much covered every one of the points I was going to make. Just one more thing: spoiler[Maria has a twin sister, that looks and acts exactly like Maria when he pretends to be a girl. If there were any possibility of Kanako pairing up with someone, it'd probably be her.] *EDIT* Thought of something else. Let's say the creator does actually believe that lesbians are created because of poor experiences with men, and they just need to find the right one to be converted back to normal. It is still a huge leap-of-faith to assume she hates lesbians, and that the humor of the series comes from Kanako being tormented for her preference. The whole lesbian "phase" thing is an incredibly common belief, and Japan isn't known to let go of stereotypes, even when they learn the truth. It's a bit like how black people are depicted in anime; of course it is not because they are hated, but all Japan ever hears of them comes from gangsta rap. You can find it offensive if you want, but it's because of a misunderstanding, and not because of ill intent. Last edited by giascle on Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:33 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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I agree on every point, very well thought out and detailed post championferret *claps*
Plus you get points from me for having Hatsune Miku in your avatar. |
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LKK
 Posts: 426 Location: Virginia, USA |
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The mangaka is a woman. That fact doesn't change your point, but I don't want the thread to accidentally go down the route of how the "male" mangaka must hate women or something like that. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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Just chiming in with my appreciation of championferret's post. I tend to lack the energy to make detailed rebuttals so I'm glad others don't!
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TheTheory
 Posts: 1029 Location: Central PA |
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Totally a good idea. Its cheap to acquire and just faa~aabulous in every way. |
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The Human Spider
Posts: 334 |
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It's a great show, but the "disgusting" warning must be emphasized--you will not be able to unsee some of the things you'll see. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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Will watching it make me question the creator(s) mental health and make me declare that I wouldn't want to associate with anybody who likes this show? Heh. |
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erinfinnegan
ANN Columnist
Posts: 598 |
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Yes!
No. Well, hopefully not... It's like Beavis and Butthead with more plot, and more articulate characters, and more sexual deviancy. It has nearly the same level of "ick" factor as Puni Puni Poemy. |
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