Forum - View topicShelf Life - MMMHolic
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giascle
 Posts: 157 Location: Denver |
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Thanks, changed it. |
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vashfanatic
 Posts: 3489 Location: Back stateside |
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My opinion, episode 1:
First of all... it isn't that funny. Every last one of Kanako's hyperactive bursts of dialog in super deformed mode fell completely flat with me. The dialog in general was bad. I tried to get myself to laugh at the creepy neko-mimi loli dorm leader, but she's just... weird. Most of the supporting cast is like this. That's a problem with a lot of things that people consider parodies - rather than subverting or inverting the tropes they parody, they just amplify them and think that's enough. This actually works all right with some of the elements. Kanako's dramatic pans and swoons are perfect imitations of the silliest excesses of school-set yuri series. There's certainly nothing wrong with making fun of these sort of cliches. And the creator of this show obviously had at least some superficial familiarity with yuri - perhaps just not the sophistication of writing to get a really good skewering in 100% of the time. All that, though, would just make this mediocre. So let's turn to Mariya. And Kanako's relationship with men. This series doesn't just imply that Kanako only likes girls because she was bullied, it says it outright in the first episode. She bends over backwards to deny that she's a lesbian, she acts ashamed about it, Mariya berates her as a pervert, and when Kanako fights back she does so by declaring that cross-dressing is worse. How very enlightened... :grr: Let's give the author the benefit of the doubt and say this isn't meant to be about lesbians, that it's meant to represent rabid yuri fans who won't read anything else. If I'm gracious about that, then it's less offensive - but it's still not very funny. Frankly, it would be funnier to have her convinced she's lesbian because she's read nothing but yuri manga her whole life... Also, is Mariya supposed to be funny? or are we supposed to want to beat the shit out of him? Because if it's the former, the series fails again. So far, I think this does play straight (no pun intended) a terrible false conception that is altogether too prevalent in japan, i.e. that lesbianism is just a phase due to fear of men. But from the first episode, I'd rate is as perishable just because it's just not very funny. I mean, I've read better parodies of yuri is cruddy Yuri-Hime one shots. My guess is that this is because it's being written for a mostly male audience whose knowledge of yuri doesn't extend beyond the utterly dreadful Strawberry Panic. When it's not being irritating, it's just so dull. I'll watch the second episode and get back on that. EDIT Wait, there's stuff after the end credits (which are also annoying and stupid)... ...yeah, that wasn't funny either.  *sigh* Here I was hoping to be enraged by this series ala Basquash. Nobody told me this would be boring...
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23752 |
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But...but...I liked creepy neko-mimi loli dorm leader
 
Thanks for giving this a look, vashfanatic. I was curious where you would come down on the whole "the creator has mental issues" and "I wouldn't want to associate with anyone who liked this series" angle. Sorry I dragged you into something you find tedious. Maybe as payback I should have to watch a BL eppie... |
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vashfanatic
Posts: 3489 Location: Back stateside |
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Except that I'm not a BL fan! I like yuri! And my reaction so far would be "Why does anyone find this funny? It's not! It's lame! Have you no standards?" I've started the second episode. The opening theme song is... ear-grating and the video, while okay, doesn't hold a candle to Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei. I promised you two episodes, I'll give you two episodes. And actually, the more I think about it, the people who really ought to be offended by this are male transvestites. The show is constantly bashing them. That's actually more irritating to me than the pseudo-lesbianism. |
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giascle
Posts: 157 Location: Denver |
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It's fine you don't find it funny, but that's not really the issue here. People's views of comedy are always going to be different; we're discussing if it's offensive or not. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23752 |
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I know, but my personal glimpse of Hell happens to be having to watch a BL episode. So if you wanted the satisfaction of knowing that I was suffering as recompense for dragging you into two MH eppies, that would be the way to go. ... I'm begging you not to be that mean! |
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vashfanatic
Posts: 3489 Location: Back stateside |
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Well, like I said, it depends on whether you give this series the benefit of the doubt. Is Kanako a jab at teenage lesbians, or a jab at yuri fans? I could honestly see it either way. If it's the latter, it's badly executed, if it's the former, then yes, it's offensive. And as I watch more of the second episode... I'm starting to lean toward the first possibility. When you have girls mocking others asking "do you lean that way?" "of course not!" and Kanako coming across more and more as a lesbian rather than a fan of lesbian relationships, the more everyone keeps bashing on male transvestism as abhorrent, the more Mariya clearly gets glee out of tormenting Kanako for her dislike of boys more than anything else... the less I am liking it. Still working on episode 2... EDIT No. No, you did not just... was that supposed to be funny? Was I supposed to [expletive] laugh at that??!?!?! ARGH!! Expect a much angrier review of the second episode when I get to it... |
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TheTheory
 Posts: 1029 Location: Central PA |
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Well, after this epic thread, MariaHolic has quickly entered my "must buy" list. Thanks guys.
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vashfanatic
Posts: 3489 Location: Back stateside |
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Please, please don't. Just...please. Let me begin by telling you a little story. I can't give away too many details because I want to keep a friend's privacy. But I did have a friend who dated a guy that everyone thought was nice and kind, the perfect boyfriend. Everyone thought she was so lucky to be dating him. Behind closed doors, he was an emotionally manipulative abuser who on several occasions raped her. And she couldn't tell anyone because no one would believe her. So what pisses me off about this series isn't the trashing of lesbians - it's that this series seems to think that this kind of premise is hilarious. Sure, Mariya hasn't raped Kanako (yet), but he's threatened to, and it treats Kanako's understandable reaction as if it were the height of comedy. I hate you, MariaHolic. How can you be so stupid as to not realize that this is not funny? And maybe some of you just haven't encountered this sort of thing in real life to realize that not only is it not funny, it is not something you should or even can make fun of. Maybe you're just happily ignorant of the pain that these kind of deceptive, exploitative relationships cause and thus can laugh at a "parody" of it. To you I say, I wish I was still that naive. For those of you, though, who said you actually root for Mariya? You guys scare me. So yeah, this series is offensive, but not in an aggressively in your face way. It's offensive because it is too dumb to realize how offensive it is being. It thinks it's being oh-so-funny when it's making light of one of the unfunniest things imaginable. I'm sorry, Blood-, I couldn't finish episode 2, I was starting to cry. I'd think of an appropriate punishment for you except that right now I'm feeling too depressed. |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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vashfanatic
Posts: 3489 Location: Back stateside |
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Well, it starts with Mariya asking "Who'd want to dress like this?", continues with Kanako telling him being a transvestite is worse than being a lesbian, goes on more with the maid always badmouthing him as a "tranny." But yeah, the whole "haha he has her trapped in an emotionally abusive relationship!" is what killed this for me. This is as obliviously horrible series. I do not understand why people are rushing to defend it. At all. And you know, I don't even want to debate it anymore. I'd like to just forget I ever watched it. Let other people sort it out... |
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Joketsu
 Posts: 23 |
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I love you, vashfanatic, in the most platonic of ways. As one person said, it could be a series about abusing/torturing anyone perpetrated by anyone else, and it would still be completely repugnant. I was bullied heavily in middle school for various reasons (mostly because back then I was quiet and bookwormy) and now that I'm grown up, I find myself being verbally bullied because I like other women and no other reasons. I admit too that the abuse and things like THREATENING TO RAPE SOMEONE also made me cry. RAPE IS NEVER OKAY AND NEVER CUTE OR FUNNY. I completely sickens me mentally andphysically to show someone saying this is okay to laugh at. This show is nothing but a gigantic trigger for people like me, and whether the author intended it to be or not, she ought to be completely ashamed of herself.
It goes beyond parody and comedy and deconstructing. It plays the "laugh at someone who's different because they're different" card to the fullest order. Thanks for the segregation! On another note, I find the fact the creator is a woman hilarious in a very tragic way. She runs along the lines of other such "wonders" as Stephanie Meyer, passing abuse off as something we should want. The self-misogyny is delicious. If the series ends with Kanako accepting that being gay is nothing to be ashamed of and gets herself a nice girl, my opinion of the creator will go up, but only slightly. The fact she showed these things as silly rather than the tragedy they really are for people like us to go through for the most bullcorn of reasons will always make me think she just doesn't know what she's doing ever. She just doesn't have a clue. [I apologise now for turning the thread into all about this, I just feel strongly about issues like this, and seeing people go LOL IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE FUNNY makes me wonder just what the heck.] |
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LaFreccia
 Posts: 324 |
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Like I said before, I am not going to say the show is evil, but I couldn't stand to watch it. I must say that it was somewhat cathartic for me to hear the reactions above anyways. Being victimized is kind of an insidious thing in that you can end up feeling helpless and alone. When you have a negative reaction to something, and you express that it makes you feel uncomfortable, only to be told you are over-reacting, it makes you feel more alone, and as if there is nothing you can do about these feelings -- or maybe are wrong for having them. So it meant a lot to me to hear some other people say they didn't like MariaHolic for the same reasons. In all honesty, I am a bit jealous that, to some people the experience of victimization is so abstract that they simply can't empathize with the victim. Having been on the receiving end of it, it seems far too real for it to be the material for comedy or sexual fantasy. Best wishes to everyone. |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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Thank you vashfanatic for providing your viewpoint on the transvestite aspect, despite probably being sick of talking about this show. I thought it was a good analysis and I appreciate you taking the time to offer insight.
I think Mariya's situation is a bit different than the typical transvestite or transsexual, because he is neither. If it was up to him he'd just dress like a normal boy and go to a boy's school. Although he's a very good crossdresser and looks exactly like a girl that fact just provides entertainment value for people like me who like traps. I don't see him as representing any type of transsexuality situation and Kanako's and Matsurika's remarks about his "tranny" ways are just done out of spite and their own ill-conceived notions of transpeople. The viewer isn't meant to or expected to support those viewpoints. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23752 |
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National Lampoon (the magazine) used to have a graphic that showed a legless frog in a wagon. The caption that went with the graphic was, "That's not funny - that's sick." That motto pretty much sums up that strain of humour that goes by different monikers: sick, twisted, black, etc. There are some people, and I fully admit that I am one of them, who enjoy absolutely scabrous humour. The kind of stuff that even as you laugh you think to yourself, "Well, clearly I'm going to Hell for finding this funny."
For people like me the list of things that can potentially be funny includes: 1) The Sun. 2) Everything under it. For us, there simply are no limits. It's easy to draw up a list of things that are objectively not funny. Rape is obviously one. Cancer. AIDS. The list can go on and on. Each individual, because of his or her life experiences will have taboo subjects. I certainly do. There are some twisted jokes that might crack your shit up that would leave me completely stone-faced (despite my predilection for sick humour). Would I expect anybody who has been raped or has had a loved one raped to ever find a sick joke about rape funny? Of course not. If I laugh at a sick joke that includes rape as a subject does that mean I find rape funny? No, it doesn't. The fact humans can find humour in even the most mordant of subjects I think is part of our nature. So unless you are a person who has NEVER laughed at any kind of "sick" joke in your life, you can't really blame somebody else for laughing at a joke that touches on one of your personal taboo subjects. With regard to MH, Mariya's comments that he would "stick it in" or rape Kanako did crack me up because they struck me as so absurd. Here's this cute "girl" who I felt that Kanako could snap in half if she wanted to, issuing a ludicrous threat that he had (I felt) neither the intention nor ability to make good. Again, do I have the slightest problem imagining somebody being totally offended by that and finding it the absolute polar opposite of funny? Of course not. Meh, who knows, maybe the world really would be a better place if we used only safe and pleasant topics as comedic fodder. |
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