Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! Back In Inaction
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kippy666
Posts: 20 |
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Nothing wrong with American animation at all. I watch it all the time and like it for what it is. I just don't think people should try and create anime or manga, since what makes it anime and manga is where it comes from and I don't want people to make a mess of it. I guess, I don't know its hard to explain how I feel. I just don't like the thought of people creating crappy copies and destroying what I love so much. But I'm all for people writing comic books or cartoons as long as it makes people happy and they don't call it manga and anime. |
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silentjay
Posts: 304 |
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It's at this point I finally realize that you either have absolutely no idea how movies are produced, or are just trolling. I mean that's like saying "I'd trust Bebop more if Gundam 00 didn't look like Gundam Wing 2.0." (Which is technically more damning, as they're both Sunrise properties with a lot of the same people working on them, as opposed to Bebop and Predators that just have Fox as the link.) |
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tasogarenootome
 Posts: 593 |
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I don't know why, right moment or something, but that cat video had me laughing so hard I almost cried. First the "Energizer Bunny" video and now this? You are on a role, Brian.
Interesting questions this week. The "why don't Western anime fans make their own stuff in their own countries" especially. I think it's probably a few different factors, lack of interest once people find out how much effort that stuff takes definitely being at the top. I think another big part of it is an illusion a lot of those people have - they want to create a comic or animation not just for its own sake, but for approval. It's why you have sites like Youtube and DeviantArt, where people post their work, then get mad when it gets ripped to shreds by someone offering critique. I think a lot of these people want a quick fix, a quick boost, instead of being willing to do the hard work to get to where Manga/Anime Creator X is. The second part, the part about moving to Japan, is just that whole mystique of Japan thing coupled with something RestlessOne said - because of the way animation is marketed in the West, it's either "for kids" or "adult comedy", so Joe Fan who wants to sell his "Angsty Teen Prodigy and Friends" dramatic fantasy series, probably thinks he/she won't be taken seriously by mainstream Western cartoon fans and that Western anime fans who like "angsty teen prodigy and friends" series from Japan will dismiss him as trying to rip-off anime, so he might as well go to Japan and get that golden job in a studio making next to nothing so his series will gain acceptance from the "far sophisticated" Japanese fanbase. Angsty Teen Prodigy and Friends is copyrighted, by the way. I'm producing it right now - it will star a sponge who doesn't know he's a reincarnated moon princess. Fall '10 on the CW, following Vampires in Space. |
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Haterater
 Posts: 1727 |
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This concerns me most. People fearing their work won't be accepted if it "copies" from anime and the likes. Look at Air Bender, Teen Titans, and other shows someone has said were successes that "have the style." Those people who mock were never fans to grab, just try to get new fans who likes the subject matter and stuff. I hate to keep seeing people say they want new Western diversity, yet they want to create their work for Japan, leaving no new blood for Western animation. And even if one does get their anime to air in Japan, would it still be considered anime if most people's definition are Japan borned creators count? |
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BunnyCupCakes
 Posts: 224 Location: The Sunshine State |
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SOMEBODY. QUICK! FUND THIS.
Comics books/cartoons, anime/manga, it's the same thing. I thought we went over this already 
So, anyone who draws anime/manga who isn't Japanese is a...copier? It's just a different style & technique. Anyone can use it, it doesn't matter what race you are or what country it comes from. And please, the Japanese make & create enough abominations of crappy stories with the medium already. A silly little foreigner making a craptastic manga-inspired mini series isn't going to ruin your precious & pure Japanese anime & manga. Though, on the otherhand, I can understand where you're coming from, about people who call their comics "manga" just for the sake of cashing in a few extra bucks to expand their audience (with no sign of manga-inspired designs or anything) That kind of irks me sometimes too. But in the future, I really want to make a webcomic someday (...as soon as I find a darn scanner first) It just seems like something fun to do in my spare-time 
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RestLessone
 Posts: 1426 Location: New York |
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Yeah, there are some people heavily against anything that uses certain stylistic elements. Yet, they don't seem to realize that there are artists in Japan who use an "American comic book" style; no one seems to get angry at them. I think my biggest annoyance is labeling something as anime/manga just because of the artist's style. Japan has a large number of different styles, some of which incorporate none of the stereotypical anime/manga characteristics, yet only works by outside authors following the "manga style" are labeled as such. I rather have people look at what they've created and be able to state "I've created a comic, and it's really good", rather than getting hung up on creating manga. There's no guideline to what manga/anime has to look like, as is true with American comics; claiming it manga/anime on the basis of appearance alone makes no sense to me. You also bring up a good point about Western talent leaving. If the American animation industry really has no diversity (and, to an extent, it doesn't; not that films with G or PG ratings can't be deep and thought-provoking), then the people who want to create a work should at least try to set up something in the US. Granted, it won't be easy, but Avatar made it (and it was really good; not to mention got away with death, violence, and spiritual elements without going overboard). Besides, unless someone is an established animator/illustrator, what are the chances that they'll be able to successfully migrate to Japan and get a deal with a company? I'd still consider it anime if it happened, though. Basically, something produced in Japan (not counting all the oversea extra stuff, like animating in Korea) and intended for a Japanese audience, then it's anime. Same applies for the US, Canada, Spain, South Korea, etc. Basing things on race/nationality goes into this huge area of grey and controversy, but this definition makes sense and applies to most series anyway. However, depending on how the creator acts, some could be turned off if the creator acts "obsessive" and whatnot. Though at that point, I'd have to think there was something special about the work, considering the lengths it must have taken to get it published. Wow, I've been writing long posts lately 
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kippy666
Posts: 20 |
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Lol! Yes you will all ruin it!Bumheads! Nah I'm just joking, I know that the Japanese create a fair share of crappy manga I just like the culture in it I guess. I think people should write comics if they like. Go crazy! |
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moroboshi-kun
Posts: 59 |
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A few things for those that want to make their own animation....
First, animation is a very time-intensive process. To even do so-so animation, it takes quite a bit of time hunched over your lightbox/drawing tablet. Unless you're already swimming with dough and don't need to work or go to school, it can be pretty tough to work the blocks for time you need into your schedule. My experience is that you do better animation within bigger blocks of time, too - doing a half hour here and there doesn't work all that well for me. But that could just be for me, also. Learning to animate well is also a pretty intense proposition. I went back to school to learn animation and it was...tiring to say the least. I was lucky if I got out twice a month, and for a while I practically lived in the 2D lab. I knew other people who did have more a fun, college type life, and a lot of them never finished and the ones who did struggled afterwards. This doesn't mean I was more talented - I new a couple guys who were amazing and could work at a level I still envy - but everyone I knew who did well after school were pretty focused when they were there. And tired, sick, and 30 pounds overweight when they got done. Or was that just me? This doesn't mean you have to go to school for animation. I think there is just as much room for outsider art in animation as there is any other art form (outsider just means lacking formal training). But still, read a few books, in particular "The Illusion of Life" and a few others. Learn the principles of (full) animation before figuring out ways to cut corners and reduce pencil mileage, which a lot of anime does. And that's fine - unless you're Disney or Pixar and working with more or less all the time and money you need, you're going to have to use tricks. But you can always tell the difference between someone who knows their stuff and someone who doesn't. Also, as far as style goes...there's nothing wrong with emulating a style you admire - from what I've read, Osamu Tezuka like Disney and was working off that style when he created Astro Boy - but use it as a starting place and not the destination. Develop your own voice. It's much more satisfying and fun in the long run. Okay, that was a lot typing, and it's Saturday morning. Doughnut break! |
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jjwitdaheydiddydiddy
 Posts: 45 |
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First of all, I did watch all of those shows in their original forms--when I was a kid, and most of them were relatively new. And I won't get into an argument with you over the merits of Western animation. I didn't only list cartoons--there are a couple video games in there, too. But I listed mostly animation because the creators of the Bleach movie will most likely take their cues from the Bleach anime, as opposed to the Bleach manga, because it's easier to translate animation into a live-action film. Granted, the live-action versions of comic books are mostly great. But all of those comics are North American-made, and the companies who published them (Marvel, DC, Dark Horse, et. al.) are deeply involved in the making of these films. I really don't think that Kubo or Shueisha are going to hop on a plane and spend months making sure that Segal and his team don't screw it up. That Hollywood knee-jerk response is something that I've developed after years of seeing awful, horrible things come out of it. Especially when this production will not be from one of their power-players, and it's a foreign adaptation (something we're not too good with). Yeah, I know I should give it a shot, but... I'm not keeping my hopes up. |
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DJStarstryker
 Posts: 140 |
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Looking forward to seeing the responses to Brian's question about people visiting Japan. I've got tickets/reservations to fly to Japan for my first trip ever there on May 17th.
...I imagine I'll be slightly different than a lot of people going to Japan though, because I'm going to see Shokotan in Yokohama. Most anime/manga fans going to Japan don't seem to go to a concert. And, yes, I saw her at Anime Expo back in 2008. That wasn't enough Shokotan! 
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Dark Elf Warrior
 Posts: 228 |
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Thank you! This is what I have been saying. Animation to live-action doesn't work. It doesn't matter if it's a Japanese anime or an American animated work. I think we do have the right to be afraid, and not that I want to criticize Brian, in fact I praise him for his optimism, but there is a reason why we anime fans, (or people who like animation in general) aren't to keen on the idea of an anime being made into a Hollywood movie. Whether it's Bleach, Cowboy Bebop or Ghost in the Shell. Things that work in animation don't always work as live-action. And with Bleach, that's too foreign to work with. It would be odd to see Karakura in Nevada, or a caucasion male playing an explicitly Japanese Byakuya. How would that work? Not to mention, everyone having Japanese names. Leave it as animation. And about the Yogi Bear, Smurfs, Marvin the Martian and Thundercats, are those really in development for movies? If they are, what are they thinking?  I saw those when I was a kid, and I condemn Hanna Barbara for not taking kids so seriously. Of all things, why would they make these into movies? That's just digging a grave right there.
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GATSU
Posts: 15305 |
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jay: Well, at FOX, they're produced by a hack known as Tom Rothman. Hated X3, AVP, those Garfield and Chipmunk movies and DB: E? [And let's face it: Avatar.] All him. And Sunrise has more than just Gundam as its legacy, while FOX didn't even have anything to do with Star Wars, other than distributing the OT. [Don't care about the prequels.]
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stararnold
 Posts: 227 Location: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada |
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The idea of Warner Bros. trying to get "Bleach" fans angry is stupid. I mean, every filmmaker wants to make a movie in a way they hope will be enjoyed by lots of viewers, and if you ask me, the "Bleach" live-action movie is obviously meant to sell to more than just "Bleach" fans as to ensure that it'll help the Manga itself enter the U.S. mainstream since all Anime/Manga franchises are only far from entering it. Hopefully, it'll be a matter of time until fans are willing to accept that this upcoming film is meant to be set outside of the continuities of the "Bleach" manga and Anime.
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Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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Bingo! You've met one of the forums most well known trolls. He's basically bias and continuously spills venom against pretty much everything related to the domestic entertainment industry, and decides to turn even the slightest mention of it in any thread or article in to an excuse to soapbox about how much he doesn't like them.
Sorry, ya lost me when you said "Avatar". Like it or not, it was a very successful and very popular movie, and just because it's cool to hate it in some circles and you dislike it doesn't change that, I'm sorry, the world doesn't work that way. Either way, this is specifically about anime being adapted to films in the US. We start picking apart other Hollywood films and this becomes a discussion about that instead, which is not what it is, so stop trying to make it into that. |
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loka
 Posts: 373 Location: Pittsburgh, PA |
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And what if you want to make the next great horror animation? It's already been explained why America rejects the notion of [a good many] certain genres in animation. You'll have a hard enough time finding investors for the production of it, much less companies willing to give it exposure.
Sure, if you want to create the next superpower (Airbender / Teen Titans) show, there's less of a reason to go to Japan for it. Good luck creating the next non-superhero, non-comedy series here in America. |
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