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Sanosuke_Inara



Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Posts: 1662
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:05 pm Reply with quote
animehermit wrote:
i rather liked the part on the state of JRPGs very informative, but i think i'll stick by my resoning for the fall, it probably more has to do with JRPGS turning from this to this. while most western RPGs went from this to this

i mean which one of those two would you like to play?
LOLZ, that's not even fair. You just compared a pretty "bleh" series (Magna Carta) to a pretty good series (Mass Effect). If MC was the first one that came to your mind, then you should think a bit harder. xD.

In general, though, I don't get why so many people never take time to think of the other side of this spectrum. JRPGs may not do amazingly well in sales and such in America, but WRPGs also don't do amazingly well in Japan, so what's the big deal? Confused
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Animehermit



Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 963
Location: The Argama
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:45 pm Reply with quote
sfried wrote:
Those are alot of heavy generalizations in that statement, so your comparison if very skewed towards the newer generation. Not every RPG made in Japan is a fashion show made to appeal to folks who like to hang in places like Shinjuku (i.e. FFVII and up, RPGs made on the big consoles post-32/64 bit era.). Not to mention there are a couple that defy the those stereotypes (i.e. no high school teenagers, darker themes, serious plots, etc), but as I've said in the above post, most people never heard or play them because they are ignorant.


now whose the one generalizing? you criticize other for never having heard/played a game when it receives little advertising, not to mention the trailer is terrible.

Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey, was alright, a neat little diversion, but thats about it. no where near the level of some of the better western RPGs.

Quote:
LOLZ, that's not even fair. You just compared a pretty "bleh" series (Magna Carta) to a pretty good series (Mass Effect). If MC was the first one that came to your mind, then you should think a bit harder. xD.

honestly the links i posted were a little bit skewed in one direction. I very seriously could not think of a completely excellent JRPG from the past 10 years, excluding the Final fantasy series.

Quote:
In general, though, I don't get why so many people never take time to think of the other side of this spectrum. JRPGs may not do amazingly well in sales and such in America, but WRPGs also don't do amazingly well in Japan, so what's the big deal?


this is actually false, all of the most recent big American RPGs have sold pretty well in japan:

Mass Effect
Fallout 3
Oblivion

the big deal is, as was the point i was trying to make is that JRPGs are on a serious downhill slope.

it shouldn't matter who these games target and that they originally from another country, they are being released in america, for american audiences, so i have the right to criticize them how i will.
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Sanosuke_Inara



Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Posts: 1662
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:04 pm Reply with quote
animehermit wrote:

Quote:
LOLZ, that's not even fair. You just compared a pretty "bleh" series (Magna Carta) to a pretty good series (Mass Effect). If MC was the first one that came to your mind, then you should think a bit harder. xD.

honestly the links i posted were a little bit skewed in one direction. I very seriously could not think of a completely excellent JRPG from the past 10 years, excluding the Final fantasy series.

If that's true, then I honestly wonder how many JRPGs you've played.

Quote:
In general, though, I don't get why so many people never take time to think of the other side of this spectrum. JRPGs may not do amazingly well in sales and such in America, but WRPGs also don't do amazingly well in Japan, so what's the big deal?


this is actually false, all of the most recent big American RPGs have sold pretty well in japan:

Mass Effect
Fallout 3
Oblivion

the big deal is, as was the point i was trying to make is that JRPGs are on a serious downhill slope.

it shouldn't matter who these games target and that they originally from another country, they are being released in america, for american audiences, so i have the right to criticize them how i will.


1st Part: If that's true, then I honestly wonder how many JRPGs you've played.

2nd Part: 18k/40k in the 1st week? 20k/ on the first day? The hell? You think those are good sales? O.o If you do, then I can show you multiple JRPGs that were released in America that sold better than that.

And when did I say that you didn't have the right to criticize them? You can do so all you want, doesn't matter much to me. I've seen plenty of people who feel the same way you do on the internet, and I'm not gonna try to change your opinion, as long as you do know that JRPGs being on a "serious downhill slope" is still simply your opinion.

My opinion is that WPRGs were never all that great to begin with, and they still aren't. We obviously have different tastes, so there's no point in draggin' this out before it turns into a flat-out argument.
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YotaruVegeta



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 1060
Location: New York
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:46 pm Reply with quote
You guys are eat at separate restaurants while I enjoy a smorgasbord.
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Animehermit



Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 963
Location: The Argama
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:05 pm Reply with quote
Sanosuke_Inara wrote:


1st Part: If that's true, then I honestly wonder how many JRPGs you've played.

2nd Part: 18k/40k in the 1st week? 20k/ on the first day? The hell? You think those are good sales? O.o If you do, then I can show you multiple JRPGs that were released in America that sold better than that.

And when did I say that you didn't have the right to criticize them? You can do so all you want, doesn't matter much to me. I've seen plenty of people who feel the same way you do on the internet, and I'm not gonna try to change your opinion, as long as you do know that JRPGs being on a "serious downhill slope" is still simply your opinion.

My opinion is that WPRGs were never all that great to begin with, and they still aren't. We obviously have different tastes, so there's no point in draggin' this out before it turns into a flat-out argument.


answer to your first part: I've played enough of the so-called "good ones" to be horrified that they may be considered good games.

2nd part: considering the population of Japan is less than half that of the US i would not find that surprising, but still the were in the top 10 for sales, that is by no means terrible.

perhaps the fault is mine for post a dissenting opinion about how i dislike awkward mo'cap, terrible voice acting, poor writing, and strangely dressed androgynous male lead characters. I should have known that the popular opinion on the forums favored masochism.
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Myznomer



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 24
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:02 am Reply with quote
I cannot agree with your list until you include one of the following: Dante, Virgil, Trish, or Lady. (Preferably Trish, I need more ladies to mix into my teams). On the Marvel side, what about Kick Ass, or one of the Runaways? I understand it was sort of a joke (well, except for Lin and Jon), but you could have thrown more decent characters in there.
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Eivion



Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 562
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:20 am Reply with quote
The article on the state of JRPGs was great and I'm very thankful for it as it was something I was curious on a few months ago when I kept hearing about the downfall of JRPGs.

Also its great to see another supporter of Haggar.
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Ai no Kareshi



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 561
Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:22 am Reply with quote
YotaruVegeta wrote:
You guys are eat at separate restaurants while I enjoy a smorgasbord.

This.
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daedelus



Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 743
Location: Texas City, TX (ajd: 6/11/05)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:43 am Reply with quote
Ai no Kareshi wrote:
YotaruVegeta wrote:
You guys are eat at separate restaurants while I enjoy a smorgasbord.

This.

Agreed.

Put whatever letter you want in front of RPG, and I'm interested.
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teh*darkness



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 901
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:43 am Reply with quote
Todd wrote:
Breath of Fire's laid low since the underappreciated Dragon Quarter flopped in 2003...


It wasn't underappreciated. It was a mess. It had a built-in cheat system which you were forced to use, many, many times, in order to be able to successfully play the game. I gave up on it after playing through the beginning 5-8 hours of the game about a half dozen times, trying to save up enough experience so that I could power level my characters right before a boss fight, in order to gain massive bonus experience for handily defeating said boss, hoping to get enough experience in several runs to get my characters to a high enough level to beat later mid-bosses. And the full game timer didn't exactly increase my enjoyment of the game any... Now Breath of Fire III on the playstation? That was a great game.
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UltimaShadowfax



Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 279
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:15 am Reply with quote
Can you imagine how totally freaking badass Nightcrawler would be in a Marvel vs Capcom game?
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Ggultra2764



Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 3550
Location: New York state.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:20 am Reply with quote
For the Capcom end, I was thinking Jedah Dohma from Vampire Savior would make a great fit considering his Supers are just as insane and over-the-top as what screen-filling Supers like B.B. Hood and Morrigan have done, as well as the shock value considering many of Jedah's moves from the original game revolved around using his blood and self-mutilation being used as weapons. For one attack, the guy even cuts his own head off. They made Jill Valentine from Resident Evil for Marvel vs Capcom 2. Don't see why not in Jedah's case.
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YotaruVegeta



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 1060
Location: New York
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:21 am Reply with quote
The Ultimate Alliance games show how badass pretty much all the Marvel heroes are.
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RDespair



Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 239
Location: California
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:08 am Reply with quote
teh*darkness wrote:
Todd wrote:
Breath of Fire's laid low since the underappreciated Dragon Quarter flopped in 2003...


It wasn't underappreciated. It was a mess. It had a built-in cheat system which you were forced to use, many, many times, in order to be able to successfully play the game. I gave up on it after playing through the beginning 5-8 hours of the game about a half dozen times, trying to save up enough experience so that I could power level my characters right before a boss fight, in order to gain massive bonus experience for handily defeating said boss, hoping to get enough experience in several runs to get my characters to a high enough level to beat later mid-bosses. And the full game timer didn't exactly increase my enjoyment of the game any... Now Breath of Fire III on the playstation? That was a great game.


Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter is not only the best Breath of Fire game, but it's one of the best games period. A true work of art. And if you're needing to grind XP or reset then you're playing the game wrong - you can play through the entire game without restarting a single time. The key is to take advantage of all the tools that the game gives you like traps or grouping enemies together for massive XP.
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zetsuie



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 192
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:30 pm Reply with quote
domino wrote:
It's a shame that no one played Lost Odyssey; it was easily one of the best RPGs I've played since the PS1 era. Its only real flaw was that it was only released for the XBOX360 (most JRPG fans I know--including myself-- have a PS3 instead and the 360 is pretty much a dead console in Japan, existing only for [email protected]). No wonder their next effort is going to be for the Wii. I wonder why Mistwalker won't publish for the PS3..?
PS3 is too expensive to make a big budget game on especially for a studio like mist walker. Designing games for 360 is a lot closer to designing games for last gen consoles. However, Japanese developer's are starting to finally realize they can't make a profit on a system that only has 1million owners in Japan. I think 2010 will be the last year where a number of big jrpgs are only released on 360. More than likely you'll see rpgs developed for both consoles with the PS3 as the lead console. It will probably be slow at first but by tgs 2012 there should be quite a few big budget rpgs being revealed for release within a year.
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