Forum - View topicNEWS: FBI Shuts Down Comics Scan Site
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agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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Just to underline what others have said, the reason most people "don't know this" is because its a flat out lie. Its confusing "fair use" provisions that do indeed make some differences between what a commercial corporation can do and what a public library can do ... with the entirely legal lending of something that you own to somebody else. Everyone has the right to lend a copy of a work if they are the legal owners of that copy. This is why video rental stores were found to be legal when they were challenged in court in the US in the late 70's. "Copy-right" is about the right to make a copy of the work. A scanlation breaks copyright when the work is scanned to be scanlated, unless they have permission from the copyright owner. The uploader breaks copyright when the scanlation is uploaded, unless they have permission from the copyright owners (since the translated text has its own copyright). The server breaks copyright when the file is served to someone using a scanlation site, unless they have permission from the copyright owners. If its a torrent, the person doing the torrent download is breaking copyright with each packet they serve back to other torrent downloaders, unless they have permission from the copyright owners. |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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-Wang-
Posts: 29 |
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Cultural chauvinism, historical nonsense, and a lack of understanding of contemporary China, all in the same paragraph. Impressive. 1) Implying that Chinese culture somehow cultivates piracy is like saying Japanese culture somehow cultivates perversion and rape; and it's just as offensive. 2) China's been on the backburner for most of the last 200 years, neglecting industrialization, it's highlighted by Mao's "Great Leap Forward" which was a radical push from the rural society towards rapid industrialization, and ended up killing 70 million. The notion that somehow China was doing today's type of piracy of copying western goods for ages is laughable. 3) This is a pretty pivotal moment in China, while 70% of the population is still rural and rather poor, more and more opportunities are popping up for them to pull them out of poverty. You see those sweat shop like factories which produce so much of America's goods? Those are considered very good jobs, it's hard work but they make in a month what farmers make in a year. And what results is a mass internal migration to those production centers, and of course, local economy in those areas grow. You can make money by catering to those migrants, one of them being cheap pirated goods. It's nothing special or somehow only applicable to China, all you need is semi-poor people who can once in awhile indulge. If we have another Great Depression like situation in America, I can guarantee you piracy will flourish. |
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Ian K
Posts: 250 |
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@agila61
Well, people outside of North America who signed up for their service have complained that they weren't made aware of what shows were blocked in their region and had no way to know what they were paying for. I would also suggest that their website design is an afront to good taste. Sure, they seem to be in the clear now, legally speaking, but that doesn't mean they didn't break the law before. I remember back when they first went legit a number of people on this forum vowed never to use the sight because of the reputation it had developed for itself. I wasn't one of them, and I'm glad the new Cruncholl is here, but that doesn't mean I'm going to ignore it's origins (necessary as they might have been). In fact, if you go back a couple of pages to the link to A Distant Soil website, you'd read about how this HTMLcomics guy was essentially trying to follow the same playbook as Crunchyroll: start illegal, become successful, get so big that the comic companies would rather work with you for a cut of the profits (all while still describing his site as a 'library' and a 'service to the community'. I can't say for sure that he was consciously trying to ape Crunchyroll -maybe 'good ideas' just struck twice. As for me soiling their good name: If they were really concerned about reputation (at least more than, say, money) we wouldn't be having this coversation. |
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enurtsol
Posts: 14746 |
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And nobody complains about the X-Files. |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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Lol, Mulder and Scully. I imagine they might of done better in the FBI's IP division, given their poor shooting skills [Fringe's Olivia Dunham however seems to have a rather deadly aim, so is quite suited to shooting down evil alternate dimension peoples :)]. Love, love the X-Files :)
Anyhoo, this is the first time the companies worked in unison on something, and given DH, CMX/DC publisher manga and the positive response it's had from publishers [I ignore the fandom rage, because it's pretty empty, meaningless anger- it's a lesson people need to learn at some point], I hope we'll see manga publishers do the same. Would something similar work for anime companies? I'm guessing they might be in as good a position, but given many of the aggregators run both anime and manga sites, it might be worthwhile for some anime publishes to tag along with the manga and comics publishers. |
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jvowles
Otakon Representative
Posts: 219 Location: Maryland |
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No, that is *A* problem. It's actually an annoyance and an inconvenience. Just because it sucks, that does not make it a violation of law.
Getting translations done legally is something that (a) costs money to pay the translators, (b) requires involvement of people who are producing the original work, and (c) creates a wrinkle when negotiating for proper print distribution. There are rights issues involved. Who will pay for that stuff? Because most series *fail* -- and the few huge hits pay for everything else. So who sticks their neck out on the off-chance a few English-speakers decide they want to read some Japanese comic book?
So they should give their stuff away for free, let others mistranslate and repost and screw around with it without the creators/owners having any recourse, on the off-chance that a tiny percentage might decide it's worth buying? How is that remotely a viable plan? The cost to translate each page of manga professionally is much the same regardless of how popular it is; the cost of printing scales by the number of copies, but that's not true of the cost to translate. You do it once. So translating obscure crap costs the same as big popular crap. Their risk is the same because the upfront costs are the same. Further, those localization costs are generally paid by the US distributor/licensor folks. They pay a fee to the owners and they work with them to get the US translation done (and despite the claims of some people, there ARE standards and there are Q/A steps), and then they earn a profit on what they sell.
You seem to confuse "it would be awesome if everything worked this way" with "it would make business sense". |
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TsukasaElkKite
Posts: 3945 |
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I read the new chapters of Naruto as they come out, but I always buy the tankouban when they're released. Same with Loveless and Junjo Romantica. I'm a big supporter of "give the manga-ka the credit they deserve".
I read Kodomo no Jikan and Maria-sama ga Miteru online because they aren't licensed here and I would have no other way to do so. |
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Olivine
Posts: 197 Location: Sol 3 |
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I'm not sure what shutting down one site out of probably thousands will do other than give Google a few more hits, and give the publishing companies a false sense of security. Its not like the other thousands of sites they didn't shut down won't welcome the new viewers. This really is just a waste of resources on their part. But hey, if the publishing companies want their figurative blankie, I guess they're legally entitled to it.
What publishers did you buy from that put out the shoddy quality manga you're talking about? The manga from the publishers I've bought from (Media Factory, ASCII Media Works, Square Enix, and Ichijinsha) are the same size as english language manga, and were higher quality than the manga from english localization publishers in every respect. I'd like to know so I can avoid whatever publishers you bought from.
Fight the powa! Down with discontinued series! Down with inferior quality print, paper, and lack of book covers! Down with inferior selection and waiting for localization! Up with original manga! In Bk1.jp we trust. *continues humming the Japanese Language Manga Liberation Front's anthem*... Although, you must know our dark lord Bk1.jp looks down upon scans. If you wish to sample the manga, you must buy the magazines, and fulfill the prophecy! Repent through sacrificing a harddrive/small animal to His Dark Majesty! Go forth, young acolyte, for the glory of Bk1.jp! |
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ralphmerridew
Posts: 70 |
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[quote=someone else]The FBI has more important things to do than to battle for artists and distributors. This isn't, nor has ever been, their role. I even recall the ex-FBI director stating he didn't approve of the FBI message on videos because it would lead people to believe it was their responsibility.[/quote]
The FBI is responsible for investigating federal crimes, and copyright has always been handled by federal law. [quote=someone else]That's why I found it strange the FBI was involved in Death Note. People dying in Japan has nothing to do with the FBI. Wouldn't it be the CIA & they'd have just taken out the most likely suspects with snipers & no trace back to them? [/quote] It was mentioned that the majority of the dead prisoners were American. (Though with 2 million people in prison and 5 million on parole, Light would probably get hand cramps before anybody noticed prisoners dying.) |
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Altare
Posts: 37 |
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"Potion Punch"
Until that is fixed, scanlations are just better. I'm not saying I won't buy manga though, but I would just read a scanlation. |
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Jrittmayer
Posts: 304 Location: New Jersey |
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I rarely read scanalations because I prefer having a physical copy in my hands to read.
HOWEVER, I would never have found out about (And consequently bought) HALF of my current manga and comic collection were it not for scanalations. Now I'm not condoning scanalations, because I know there are plenty of d-bags who never buy a single comic book or manga. And then again, there's the argument that scanalations allow us to read manga that will never come to the United States (Or other country) which I think IS a valid one. |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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http://harlanellison.com/heboard/unca.htm Harlan Ellison apparently was involved in things- between his and Colleen Doran's comments, it seems a number of creators were involved in this and kept quiet about it until the big press release, so it's clear it's not just "corporations", it's also the people who write and draw the comics taking on these people.
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Kikaioh
Posts: 1205 Location: Antarctica |
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I think this is the most important point underlying the entire scanlation issue. By creating and distributing copyrighted works, scanlators are fundamentally taking the owner's rights for themselves without permission. There is no justification for this ~ legally, morally or ethically. Scanlator's (and Fansubbers) opinions on how much they help the industry, their perceptions of the industry's practices and pricings, and any other justification they may make ~ are completely secondary to the rights of the original creators. If the original creators want you to help the industry, they'll give you permission. If you think they're too far behind Japan's release schedule, then you can wait, or ask them to hurry up. If you think the price is too high, then don't buy their works, and let them know. No matter how great the perceived sense of entitlement to these luxury items may be, no matter how great the perceived sense of helping the industry and spreading the love for manga may be ~ none of that justifies breaking the rights of the original creators. I support the FBI and the U.S. comics publishers regarding the shutdown of this comics scan site. |
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Number Six
Posts: 84 Location: Southern California |
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I don't know. The press release reads more like a commercial for the law firm rather than a true information release like you would get from a real law enforcement agency. Yes the FBI was apparently involved, but the release was not from them. There are a lot of words in the release emphasizing how the web site was this big, bad copyright infringer and how taking it down is a mighty blow for the comic book industry. And oh, BTW, we (the law firm) were a full partner in this action.
The other curious thing I see is its mention of "criminal copyright infringement" What does that mean? Copyright infringement normally falls under the civil code, not criminal code. So, which is it? OK, I guess it could be both, but if there were violations of the criminal code, why didn't I see any mention of anyone getting arrested? All they apparently did was confiscate the guy's computers. A lawyer enriching lawsuit will follow, I'm sure. Don't misunderstand. I am not here to defend the website or condone its actions. I have never heard of it and to be honest, I rarely read manga/comics. But just seems like the press release was more of a "Hey studios/publishers! Come to us for all your intellectual property rights needs! See how we were involved in taking down this evil doer!" commercial for the law firm. <shrug> However they want to drum up business I guess. |
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