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Bandai Entertainment Responds to ANNCast Comments


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torreyjs



Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 76
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 3:22 pm Reply with quote
I just hope we still get some dubs for our box sets. I mean like I said earlier if the dubs go away so will I, and Id rather keep getting new interesting shows.

I just hope dubs dont disappear that would suck. I guess I could buy new stuff with my monthly budget I have for anime but fudge man gotta get my cartoon fix.
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GrilledEelHamatsu



Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 703
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 3:24 pm Reply with quote
poehitman wrote:
jsc315 wrote:
poehitman wrote:
All I can say is that if they stop making dubs, I stop buying their DVD's. I won't buy sub-only releases as they are just glorified fansubs.

That is one of the most idiotic things i have read on here in a while. Please explain how in the world you came to this conclusion?


I use fansubs to decide what series' I like, and which I don't. Fansubs are the same as watching a show on television first before buying the show on DVD. I'm not going to spend my money on something I don't know if I'm going to like or not.

Now when it comes down to actually buying a DVD, you need to have something on the DVD to justify me buying the DVD over watching the shows I taped off the tv when the show aired. For anime, I prefer listening to audio which I can actually understand. So the dub is the added value that makes the DVD worth purchasing.

For sub-only, what is the added value that justifies me purchasing it? Some cheap extras that I won't ever even look at because they are worthless? And don't say "well the official subs are more accurate than the fansubs". I watched the "official" version of Polyphonica on The Anime Network On Demand. The main female character's name is "Corticarte" and her nickname that Phoron calls her is "Cortie". The "official" subs screwed that up and had the subs calling her "Coatie". THAT is why I call them glorified fansubs. A lot of the fansubs out there also have better resolution and video quality to them as well.

So tell me, why should someone who prefers dubs buy sub-only DVD's? Even without the previous explanation, what is so hard to understand about a dub fan not wanting to buy DVD's that don't have what he/she is a fan of on them?

Also, if they are only going to release them sub-only, I'd rather they not license them at all, because it kills any chance of them ever being dubbed.

I don't know why the sub-only elitist fans seem to object to even having a dub track on a DVD when a sub track is almost always included as well.
I've used fabsubs for refrence to pick up a title, too and am also on SSI.

If an anime doesn't have a dub I could care less. It shouldn't matter to anyone.

Why? Because the anime market doesn't have the deep pockets of hollywood or the game industry. They deserve our support reguardless of the situation.

Maybe if things were alot better for the dubbing market like it was in 2005-2006, you can see everything getting dubbed. Refusing to buy a title if it can't be dubbed, is considered,selfish,infantile,self-serving and prejudice.
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KanjiiZ



Joined: 28 Jun 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Central Coast
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 3:30 pm Reply with quote
ZenErik wrote:
nailszz6 wrote:
Quote:
we may unfortunately discontinue creating dubs and focus on sub-only releases.


YES YES YES!!! More and more good news just keeps flowing in.

While it may be bad for the market, those of us that are generally sub fans may benefit. POTENTIALLY lower prices and quicker turn around times after the licensing announcements. :p



I sure as hell hope so. Companies like FUNImation take too long to release their anime because they're doing mediocre dubs for them.

I waited a pretty long time for Heroic Age and by the time it got released, I didn't feel like buying it anymore. Then I saw a free episode on FUNImation On Demand and the dub was REALLY flat. My excitement for Sengoku Basara and East of Eden is dying by the minute,
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torreyjs



Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 76
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 3:33 pm Reply with quote
GrilledEelHamatsu wrote:



If an anime doesn't have a dub I could care less. It shouldn't matter to anyone.

Why? Because the anime market doesn't have the deep pockets of hollywood or the game industry. They deserve our support reguardless of the situation.

Maybe if things were alot better for the dubbing market like it was in 2005-2006, you can see everything getting dubbed. Refusing to buy a title if it can't be dubbed, is considered,selfish,infantile,self-serving and prejudice.


Its considered the Free Market and me choosing how to spend my money. Who in the hell do you think you are son? Whats immature and selfish is to get mad when a grown man willingly stops buying a non essential product anymore because they no longer like it.

Christ I wish there was an ignore function on this forum.
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GrilledEelHamatsu



Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 703
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 3:35 pm Reply with quote
_V_ wrote:
luffypirate85 wrote:
Oh man this is the best drama since ADV went under.


ADV going under was a long, drawn-out process...and actually had some damage control with a weirdly happy ending.

Still, the real sign for me that "ADV is in life-or-death trouble" was December 31st 2008, when it was announced that FUNimation got Rebuild of Evangelion, not ADV; Eva was ADV's flagship series.

But after 2008 ended, we kind of went into a "numb" period in 2009 without too much big news...other than CPM shutting down, but frankly that was a fait accompli since 2006 (though it was fun to see ADV get Grave of the Fireflies)


Still...the ADV shutdown was gradual, which meant there was always another bit of news each week to yell about; Geneon shutting down was so sudden it was like a nuke going off.

Biggest industry news since 2008, yeah.


ADV NEVER Shut Down. They had to start over and figure out a loophole around Sojitz because they still owed them millions in assets.

The only way for them to escape legal action from Sojitz was to take the "Texas Two-Step Shell Game Act of 1977" a law that allows Texas LLCs to split and divide thier company to restructure without filing for Chapter 11. The law requires you to change your company's name/file several LLC names and then once the assets,properties, licenses are transfered from the label to the new companies the label is to shut down. Greenfield begin filing for this plan in April 2009.

The name and label "ADV" died not the company. The company is still very much alive.
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GrilledEelHamatsu



Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 703
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 3:43 pm Reply with quote
torreyjs wrote:



[

Its considered the Free Market and me choosing how to spend my money. Who in the hell do you think you are son? Whats immature and selfish is to get mad when a grown man willingly stops buying a non essential product anymore because they no longer like it.

Christ I wish there was an ignore function on this forum.


What it immature is the haughty attitude of dub-only fanboys who act ungreatful if the title doesn't get a dub. They act,ungreatful and cocky. Like they know how much,time,budget,production and effort goes into dubbing a anime. They don't. And those do know don't care.

This type of attitude, is the reason why its getting harder to license shows.

Because they refuse to buy the title whether its dubbed or not this prevents a popluar title from being licensed in America. It's all about supply and demand. If there's none, they can't dub.

That's the truth. All else is just hyperbole. This type of bitching makes it more immpossible for an anime to get dubbed.
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torreyjs



Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 76
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 3:57 pm Reply with quote
GrilledEelHamatsu wrote:
torreyjs wrote:



[

Its considered the Free Market and me choosing how to spend my money. Who in the hell do you think you are son? Whats immature and selfish is to get mad when a grown man willingly stops buying a non essential product anymore because they no longer like it.

Christ I wish there was an ignore function on this forum.


What it immature is the haughty attitude of dub-only fanboys who act ungreatful if the title doesn't get a dub. They act,ungreatful and cocky. Like they know how much,time,budget,production and effort goes into dubbing a anime. They don't. And those do know don't care.

This type of attitude, is the reason why its getting harder to license shows.

Because they refuse to buy the title whether its dubbed or not this prevents a popluar title from being licensed in America. It's all about supply and demand. If there's none, they can't dub.

That's the truth. All else is just hyperbole. This type of bitching makes it more immpossible for an anime to get dubbed.


Its not immature, haughty, arrogant, or ungrateful to not buy a product you dont like. Thats called freedom of choice. If they want to stop doing dubs, well thats their decision, but my decision in response will stop buying their sub only products.

Thats my right if I so choose. You telling me that I should be forced to give money to a company I dont want to simply because otherwise your offended, is ludicrous at best. I mean think about what your saying. "It doesnt matter if you dont like it, buy anyways or your a lowlife".

This is hilarious sorry man, your viewpoint is a little extreme.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 4:18 pm Reply with quote
GrilledEelHamatsu wrote:
What it immature is the haughty attitude of dub-only fanboys who act ungreatful if the title doesn't get a dub.


What an odd response. If someone does not like reading subtitles, then they are not in the market for subtitles. It would be one thing to say, "if there are no dubs, I'll watch fansub bootlegs instead" ... that is being a bloodsucker parasite.

But saying, "if there are no dubs, I won't buy" is being something else, called a customer.

Producers of sub-only releases know that they are releasing for a smaller market, and factor that into their estimate of whether a title will pass break-even.

Quote:
Because they refuse to buy the title whether its dubbed or not this prevents a popluar title from being licensed in America. It's all about supply and demand. If there's none, they can't dub.


It not easy to work out what this intends to say, but people who only watch dubs and therefore only buy dubs, that is the market.

Group A wants a sub, does not care if there is a dub
Group B wants a dub, does not care if there is a sub
Group C wants the anime, does not care whether its a dub or a sub

The market for subs is ${A+C}
The market for dubs is ${B+C}
The market for dub/sub releases is ${A+B+C}

Since ${A} will always cover the incremental cost of the subtitling alone, for any release where ${B} can cover the cost of a dub, nobody would release a dub-only release nowadays.

Since ${B} will very often not cover the incremental cost of dubbing, there will be a number of sub-only releases, especially for niche titles (microniche titles, really, because anime itself is a niche).

People from Group B can look at that and say, "ooh, but that is a sub-only disc. Darn, I wish it had a dub". But its not the fault of Group A, the problem is that Group B does not have enough people. And someone happy with subs is just not going to "convert", so the only way to make Group B bigger is to introduce more people to the dubbed anime market. There are some dub streams, and of course there is Netflix, so its possible to introduce a friend and get them interested.

Arguing with people in Group A that they should insist on dubs would be wasted effort.

People from Group A can look at that and say, "ooh, there are those anime fans, but because they insist on the expensive to produce subs, there are all sorts of titles that are not getting licensed." But why? People in Group B are not going to have a "forum flamewar conversion" - they just are not in the market for subs. So the only way to make Group B bigger is to introduce more people to the dubbed anime market. There are a growing number of sub streams, at Crunchyroll and YouTube and Hulu and elsewhere, and of course there is Netflix, so its possible to introduce a friend and get them interested.

Arguing with people in Group B that they should buy sub-only series even though its a waste of money for them because they will not watch the discs ... is a silly waste of time.
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RestLessone



Joined: 02 Aug 2009
Posts: 1425
Location: New York
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 4:26 pm Reply with quote
GrilledEelHamatsu wrote:

What it immature is the haughty attitude of dub-only fanboys who act ungreatful if the title doesn't get a dub. They act,ungreatful and cocky. Like they know how much,time,budget,production and effort goes into dubbing a anime. They don't. And those do know don't care.

This type of attitude, is the reason why its getting harder to license shows.

Because they refuse to buy the title whether its dubbed or not this prevents a popluar title from being licensed in America. It's all about supply and demand. If there's none, they can't dub.

That's the truth. All else is just hyperbole. This type of bitching makes it more immpossible for an anime to get dubbed.


I like Big Windup!. It got a dub. I purchased it, it's sitting on my shelves as I type...But if the second season were to be released sub-only, I'd be very hesitant to buy it. Why? Because I dislike the original. The dubbed version had more character, even if it could be annoying at times, a main character doesn't sound 25 (he's the equivalent of a 10th grader by the way), and various others sound more realistic/their age. I tried watching the subs, but it felt forced and badly-acted on some characters' parts for the 2nd season. Not that the dub didn't have those moments, but it evened out for me.

So, does this make me ungrateful or arrogant? I supported a product, don't enjoy the original dub in the first place, and don't watch it on fansubs. If I'm going to spend 50 bucks on a DVD, I want it to be something bearable and enjoyable. For many series I prefer subs, but there are a select few whose dubs trump them. This is all hypothetical, of course, as I doubt Funi will ever bring it over. But people can't just lump those who don't want subbed DVDs are 'arrogant little whiners'. As a customer, I have a right to choose what to buy based on what I'm getting in return.
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GrilledEelHamatsu



Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 703
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 4:33 pm Reply with quote
agila61 wrote:
GrilledEelHamatsu wrote:
What it immature is the haughty attitude of dub-only fanboys who act ungreatful if the title doesn't get a dub.


What an odd response. If someone does not like reading subtitles, then they are not in the market for subtitles. It would be one thing to say, "if there are no dubs, I'll watch fansub bootlegs instead" ... that is being a bloodsucker parasite.

But saying, "if there are no dubs, I won't buy" is being something else, called a customer.

Producers of sub-only releases know that they are releasing for a smaller market, and factor that into their estimate of whether a title will pass break-even.

Quote:
Because they refuse to buy the title whether its dubbed or not this prevents a popluar title from being licensed in America. It's all about supply and demand. If there's none, they can't dub.


It not easy to work out what this intends to say, but people who only watch dubs and therefore only buy dubs, that is the market.

Group A wants a sub, does not care if there is a dub
Group B wants a dub, does not care if there is a sub
Group C wants the anime, does not care whether its a dub or a sub

The market for subs is ${A+C}
The market for dubs is ${B+C}
The market for dub/sub releases is ${A+B+C}

Since ${A} will always cover the incremental cost of the subtitling alone, for any release where ${B} can cover the cost of a dub, nobody would release a dub-only release nowadays.

Since ${B} will very often not cover the incremental cost of dubbing, there will be a number of sub-only releases, especially for niche titles (microniche titles, really, because anime itself is a niche).

People from Group B can look at that and say, "ooh, but that is a sub-only disc. Darn, I wish it had a dub". But its not the fault of Group A, the problem is that Group B does not have enough people. And someone happy with subs is just not going to "convert", so the only way to make Group B bigger is to introduce more people to the dubbed anime market. There are some dub streams, and of course there is Netflix, so its possible to introduce a friend and get them interested.

Arguing with people in Group A that they should insist on dubs would be wasted effort.

People from Group A can look at that and say, "ooh, there are those anime fans, but because they insist on the expensive to produce subs, there are all sorts of titles that are not getting licensed." But why? People in Group B are not going to have a "forum flamewar conversion" - they just are not in the market for subs. So the only way to make Group B bigger is to introduce more people to the dubbed anime market. There are a growing number of sub streams, at Crunchyroll and YouTube and Hulu and elsewhere, and of course there is Netflix, so its possible to introduce a friend and get them interested.

Arguing with people in Group B that they should buy sub-only series even though its a waste of money for them because they will not watch the discs ... is a silly waste of time.


I don't have a problem if the person refusing to buy the title if its sub-only. It's thier choice. The problem I have is the soapboaxing,fanboyism bias, that a label shouldn't have any right to release a sub-only title and the fact that there are people that will go on a rant threating to boycott the title if no dub is given. I can't even count the amount of people that kept complaining that Sentai wasn't dubbing its titles, some people even said they wished ADV would just die.

I like dubs. I'll buy a title if its dubbed or not.Because I know that anime is a niche market and that it deserves full support.It should not matter if a title is dubbed or not. It's anime. Sure you can fansub it, get a digital stream, but that's only temparary.Most fansubs don't last for a few months and get taken down pretty quickly anyway. We should be excited when a niche title is licensed but most dub fans are not. Its the dub-fanboyism thats annoying to me. When I hear people say idiotic things like "Bandai sucks if they stop dubbing, Why don't they just shut down", this bothers and offends me.
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firedragon54738



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 3112
Location: wisconsin
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 5:49 pm Reply with quote
Well I hope the Bandai dosnt stop dubbing completely they do good work and there limited edition stuff is great to. Like what they did with Lucky Star and Haruhi it would be a shamed that I cant buy any more Bandai limited edition box sets since I only buy dubbed dvds
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8187
Location: IL
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:15 pm Reply with quote
RestlessOne wrote:
So, does this make me ungrateful or arrogant? I supported a product, don't enjoy the original dub in the first place, and don't watch it on fansubs.

No, it doesn't. But the problem is that a large amount of people are watching it fansubbed and then just using the excuse that since it doesn't have a dub they won't be purchasing it. Even people who already watched it fansubbed and clearly enjoyed it will not buy it because there is no dub.

That is being "ungrateful", because, let's say 'person A' thought Toradora! was a pretty good show when s/he watched it fansubbed and decided to buy it. Let's say 'person B' thought Toradora! was the bestest thing ever and has a poster of Taiga or Minorin in his/her room or something, but says that s/he will not buy the DVDs because they're subbed only which is a "glorified fansub". So they just use the excuse of no dub to not support the anime, despite really enjoying it, and instead hoard their fansubs.
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Kikaioh



Joined: 01 Jun 2009
Posts: 1204
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:51 pm Reply with quote
poehitman wrote:
And it's not stealing to me. It's no different than if I had recorded it off the television for watching at a later date. I don't remember the FBI busting down my door for that. And what about DVR's? If I watch it on my tv at a later time it's perfectly legal. But what you are saying is that if I downloaded it off my DVR and watched it on my computer, it's stealing. Downloading fansubs does NOT equate to stealing. As long as the groups doing the fansubbing aren't making any profit off of it, I don't see a problem.


Well, if we take it that "stealing" means "to take something from someone without permission," then fansubbers are "stealing" the creator's right to control the conditions under which their works are copied and distributed. Fansubbers are taking the creator's rights for themselves without permission ~ which just as well amounts to stealing. Whenever someone watches a fansub, he/she is basically saying "it's okay for anyone to copy an artist's work and distribute it for free and without permission."

Anyone who truly respects the work of the original creators would respect the original creator's right to control how their works are copied and distributed. Fansubbers, however, are fundamentally "stealing" that right away from the original creators ~ they're literally giving themselves permission to control the conditions under which artwork (that they didn't even create) can be copied.

The pretentious notion that someone besides the creators knows what's best for their own works, and that anyone and everyone who has such a notion is thereby entitled to copy and distribute the creator's work without permission ~ that's not fair to the original creators. It's gravely disrespectful.

Anyways, I hope Bandai is doing as well as they make it sound. It's disappointing to see long-time distributors like Central Park and A.D. Vision closing up shop, and I'd hate to hear the same happen for Bandai.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:54 pm Reply with quote
GrilledEelHamatsu wrote:
I don't have a problem if the person refusing to buy the title if its sub-only. It's thier choice.


See, there is the problem. There is absolutely no way to guess that you do not have a problem with that when you respond to someone who simply says they will not buy a sub-only title with:
Quote:
Maybe if things were alot better for the dubbing market like it was in 2005-2006, you can see everything getting dubbed. Refusing to buy a title if it can't be dubbed, is considered, selfish, infantile, self-serving and prejudice.


Refusing to buy an entertainment DVD that you do not find entertaining because of a feature it is missing is not infantile or prejudice. Saying it is, that's silly. And complaining that someone is being "selfish" and "self-serving" in how they spend money from their entertainment budget ... wow. Just, wow.

Quote:
The problem I have is the soapboaxing, fanboyism bias, that a label shouldn't have any right to release a sub-only title


Where did he say anything like this? I missed that entirely.

Quote:
and the fact that there are people that will go on a rant threating to boycott the title if no dub is given.


Someone saying they will not buy a show if it has no dub is not "threatening a boycott",

A Boycott is refusing to buy something you want and would ordinarily buy because of some action of the seller. Refusing to buy something you do not want ... that is what is called "normal".

If the extremist overboard version of that perfectly normal position really irritates you ... you need to be careful to avoid attacking everyone who holds the normal position. Because when you go overboard in the opposite direction like that, you make us subbed-anime fans sound like a bunch of raving loons.
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nailszz6



Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 10
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 7:16 pm Reply with quote
jsc315 wrote:
poehitman wrote:
Sandstar wrote:
nailszz6 wrote:
Quote:
we may unfortunately discontinue creating dubs and focus on sub-only releases.


YES YES YES!!! More and more good news just keeps flowing in.


Remember kids: It's okay to be selfish when you like subs, but god help you if you like dubs. Apparently, in anime fandom, sub-only dvds are great, and dubs are the work of the devil. I don't understand why it's okay to say you won't buy a dvd without a sub, but it's inexplicable that you wouldn't want to buy a dvd without a dub. Some of us like dubs, and don't like subs. Yes, I can read. No I don't want to cause I like listening to anime in the background. I tend to agree: if dvds are sub only, why not just watch the fansubs?


I partially understand their argument, but it has a fatal flaw to it. They claim if that if the companies don't have to take the time to make the dub, that it will be released much faster after the license. But if they can see it even faster if they download the fansub, then buy the sub/dub DVD that would come out when the dub is complete.

The selfishness of sub-only fans is what gets me. They want to screw over all the dub fans, just so they could get the anime they want faster, when they could just as easily get it FASTER via fansubs or even more "legal" means. Dub fans aren't like that. We aren't demanding that they remove the sub-only track from US anime DVD's. We want everyone to have it in the medium that they enjoy.


YES WE WANT TO SCREW OVER THE DUB FANS! How ignorant are you?!Are you really claiming that fans that enjoy Subtitles just want to steal everything and that your a much more of a loyal fan because it's more legal? That does not even make sense at all? you do realize how ignorant and condescending that comes off as?

I don't mind don't at all. I grew up in the mid 80s when they ADV just made horrific dubbing. Compared to back then the dubbing is more then fine, but to say the elitist sub only people just want to take it all and that you are a more loyal fan because you enjoy the dub is just stupid.

There are some over reactive fans who don't want dubs at all. They are just stupid. If it's on the disc who cares. I think a lot of people are saying that It will be a lot cheaper to just have it subtitles and be done with it and release it here in the U.S. To have to re-dub a whole series and re-edit part the lips and all to sync with the voice acting is extra cost for the company. As far as we know the industry is not doing that well at all and need to save costs somewhere.


I accept all bashing directed my way. Everything you say about me is completely true. In my perfect world, I do not want redubbing of "ANY" media form, from one language to any alternate language. I want the Japanese, and other countries to watch Avatar subbed, not redubbed. I honestly don't care about release dates, or release speed. This is about not modifying an original creation, not money/release time etc..
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