Forum - View topicNEWS: A-1 Pictures' Vividred Operation Anime's 4th TV Ad Streamed
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Fencedude5609
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[Comment removed. Address the what the user actually said and not how you choose to personally interpret what they said. Insulting them in this fashion is also "not particularly conducive to this discussion"] Sometimes stuff you think is sh*t sells well. I think its absolutely apalling that SAO is going to sell 30k+ average. But I'm not going to use that to denigrate wide swaths of people, I'm just going to make blog posts ripping the show apart. If you want to discuss the shortcomings of a show, watch it and then make actual goddamn arguments, don't immediately dismiss a show you haven't even seen. If it looks like you won't like it JUST IGNORE ITS EXISTENCE. |
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誤称
Posts: 549 |
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Wait, you didn't bold Horizon and MuvLuv as fanservice? Seriously? Did you watch those shows? Boing~!
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Fencedude5609
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Fanservice is not the primary purpose of either Horizon or (allegedly) the anime which calls itself by "MuvLuv" but doesn't deserve the name. |
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walw6pK4Alo
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If turning to moe/fanservice is the way for studios to stay alive, and most of the series barely break even (2-3.5k), then what does that really say about the anime industry? They're not exactly becoming fat cats from making seasonal onii-chan love shows.
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誤称
Posts: 549 |
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So unbold all of them cause fanservice was not the primary purpose of any of those bolded. Period. |
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Fencedude5609
Posts: 5088 |
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Because it turns out that what does and does not become a hit is very hard to predict. Not to mention that a lot of these anime end up boosting the sales of the source material far more than any direct profits made off the anime itself.
Uhhh....no. Most of the ones bolded definitely had service far up their ladder of priorities than either Horizon or Total Eclipse. AND FOR THE RECORD. I like a number of those shows, and I goddamn hate Total Eclipse, so its not like I'm trying to defend Horizon and TE from any accusations, I'm making legit statements about their content as compared to shows like Dog Days, NakaImo or Oda Nobuna. [Mod Edit: Merged your posts. Do not double post, if you just posted and need to post another response immediately after then edit it in to your existing post. - Keonyn] |
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誤称
Posts: 549 |
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Both of those shows feature skin-tight clothing on the women quite often. It is pure titillation and leaves NOTHING to the imagination. Claiming these aren't fanservice driven shows and something cutesy like Dog Days IS is really making me question the reality you live in.
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Fencedude5609
Posts: 5088 |
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The reality where I watched both Horizon and Dog Days and have a comprehensive understanding in their objectives and how well they accomplished them? I'd actually disagree wtih the inclusion of KoiChoco on the original list, just being based on an eroge does not mean its focus is fanservice. As for the skintight outfts, I never said that the shows were devoid of fanservice (that would be an absolutely idiotic position to take) just that the fanservice isn't the point. Dog Days' was, quite literally, 100% fanservice in every single interpretation of the term. I absolutely loved it, but its entire purpose was to show off the three things the franchise is good at: sexual titilation, fighting and being absolutely adorable. The overarching plot was, to be charitable, almost non-existent. The same cannot be said of either Horizon or Total Eclipse. Now, Horizon is one of those shows where people look at the chara designs and immediately dismiss it, which is incredibly intellectually lazy, but thats a different argument. I greatly appreciate Horizon's service, but if you took out the service, I'd still love the show, because it has a strong, compelling story and fantastic characters. If you took the service out of Dog Days you'd have....nothing. Just 12 episodes of emptyness. |
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誤称
Posts: 549 |
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Horizon has a strong, compelling story? Bullsh*t. It's a convoluted mess.
Judge. Seriously, you cut out all the fanservice and you'd have maybe 15 minutes of animation left. Horizon was nothing but fanservice. No les yay witches. No hyper-endowed brocon. No bookish girl on the bridge with, oh yes, maid androids. No "I want to be Rei Ayanami" Horizon herself. No homage to samurai drama "I cut another useless object" bullshit. No Macross missile barrages. No scenery porn. No "emotionless girl who sings heartrending song". No hammerspace weaponry. Pretty much no show. Horizon is nothing BUT fanservice. It certainly doesn't have a deep plot or anything resembling decent storytelling.... |
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Fencedude5609
Posts: 5088 |
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No, it makes perfect sense as long as you are willing to pay attention to what the characters are saying and why they are doing what they are doing. True, the show expects you to remember everything, and doesn't flash back every five seconds to events from previous episodes, so I can see why some people have trouble following along.
Yeah no. Sorry, but you are quite frankly wrong. Edit: Also, before you jump on me for making unsupported assertions, I'm not going to give blanket, meaningless statements like that any sort of reasonable response, because they themselves are completely unreasonable and pointless. You basically [Removed. Don't insult users by assuming how they viewed a show and how they came to the conclusions they came to. Until you can certify your psychic abilities don't come in here and argue against people based on your own personal assumptions of their individual perception.] |
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誤称
Posts: 549 |
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Yes, I missed more tits. And then, more tits. Oh look, some butt! And oh, look, lesbians! Whee!
Oh, deus ex machina ending! Great storytelling! Awesome! I wish I could [same goes for you] like you, Fencey. |
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Fencedude5609
Posts: 5088 |
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Man, I wish the words I type were actually read by people around here. If they were, then maybe they'd finally figure out that I've explicitly said Horizon is NOT A TURN OFF YOUR BRAIN SHOW.
The people who try to treat it as such are the ones who end up all confused and think it sucks. I'm not saying the plot is "deep" (which is a bullshit descriptor anyway), but it is well constructed and compelling, and if you can't actually rebut the merits of the plot, then why the hell should I even have this discussion with you? Also, on a side note, your denigration of Margot and Malga's relationship is pretty astoundingly offensive. Yes, they're lesbians. The fact that they are lesbians is not played up for additional service, they do not engage in particularly excessive groping of each other or anyone else, and their kiss in season 1 was one of the most romantic kisses I've seen in ages. They are two people who love each other, the fact that they are both female (winged magic angel witches too!) is completely irrelevant to them and to everyone else in the show. At no point is their gender ever raised as an issue, because it doesn't matter to anyone. Thats amazing! So few shows can just have a set of lesbians (or gay males, as the case may be) and have it not be a "thing". It just...is. It is not "LesYay" and reducing it down to the level of that trope is offensive and shortsighted. Outfits aside, Horizon is amazing when it comes to gender equality. |
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誤称
Posts: 549 |
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You're so funny Fencedude.
A show which uses women as nothing but window dressing while making it obvious that the only person who could possibly rescue the princess is a rather braindead male is certainly doing wonders for gender equality. Did you miss the scene where the two girls grope each other in their "combo" mode in the second season? I think the dialogue went something like "Aaaahn, please rub against me more, it feels sooooo good." It was such great writing! Oh, and let's not forget the sister-who-loves-her-brother-too-much with the ample chest who goes around undoing other women's clothing to show off their assets. And of course, the amnesiac title character who needs to be taught how to show emotions, of course the only one who can properly train her is a worthless, stupid man. Of course, the writing is compelling and well constructed. It certainly is easy to follow with all the random english nonsense words and politi-babble thrown in for clarity's sake. And let's not forget the rest of the characters. There's a cast of millions. None of which get more than five minutes of plot development unless they are involved with the rescue the princess story of each season. I'm sorry, but Mario did this better. And yes, the lesbian winged magic angel witches are simply there for fanservice purposes like ALL the women in this show. None of them is deeper than the trope they personify. |
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Fencedude5609
Posts: 5088 |
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spoiler[Except Toori couldn't rescue Horizon by himself. That was the entire point of episodes 6~9 of the first season. He had to first be convinced (largely by Suzu) that she could be rescued, then he and the others had to convince the rest of the Musashi authorities that doing so wouldn't be collective suicide, and then the assault had to be carried out by the combined forces of Musashi Ariadust Academy. Said forces most notably DO NOT include one Aoi Toori as a main combatant. ] spoiler[Yes, Toori is the one who ultimately had to convince Horizon to let herself be saved, which he did via one of the more amazing verbal arguments I've seen in quite some time.] spoiler[Not to mention the "duels" used earlier to bring the others over to his side. Only one of which was a traditional "fight".]
spoiler[How dare Malga feel pleasure at being close to the woman she loves. Also nice how you conveniently ignored all the rest of her development during the second season, her fall into percieved helplessness due to the destruction of Weiss Frauen in season 1, and how in season 2 she kept failing at her missions. Only to finally pick herself up and dust herself off and stop feeling so goddamn sorry for herself, with a slight assist from Kimi's uppercut.]
spoiler[Yes. How dare Kimi be a woman confident in her body and sexuality, who is not ashamed in the least of who and what she is.]
spoiler[Horizon, who I might add for the record is actually a robot, with the remains of the orignal Horizon's soul inside her. Had her emotions forcibly ripped from her and embedded into the Deadly Sins Arma. Toori is not "teaching" her or "training" her, he's leading the fight to retrieve the Deadly Sins Arma, so the emotions that are rightfully hers can be restored.] spoiler[Not to mention, he actually loves her. He is risking his life, and has convinced all his friends and comrades to do the same, to help one girl who isn't even technically human anymore. Why? Because its the right thing to do. Thats why they rescued Horizon, why they rescued Mary in the second season. Even though both of them had voluntarily resigned themselves to their fates, Toori, Kimi, Masazumi, Tenzou and all the rest won't let them die just to satisfy the game they are all playing. Their lives are worth more than that.]
Not my fault if you can't follow along.
This paragraph makes even less sense than what you claim of Horizon.
I'm sorry if you feel this way. The depths to the characters, conveyed not through people talking about them, but through the actions they take, are the best part of Horizon. Edit: Also, forgot to add. The complaint about lack of screentime for some cast members is completely ignoring the larger context of the work this is an adaption of, and the characters that don't do much now are there for use later on in the story. The anime can't just go excising characters, since that would just screw things up later down the road. The characters who are important at the moment are the ones who get focus. Tenzou for example did basically nothing in season 1, and then, shock! He was a major character in season 2. Why is this concept so hard for people? |
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誤称
Posts: 549 |
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Since this is way off topic for this thread, I'm just leaving. You can live with your delusions, but your defense of Horizon is possibly the silliest thing I've ever seen.
I bow to your epic fanboy prowess, Fencedude. |
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