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Shelf Life - Apples and Oranges

I've watched plenty of shows starring little girls that I wouldn't consider lolicon.

The seven years between now and 2003 have really made me jaded towards lolicon.

Uh...Erin. :/ I meant my initial question as in....my initial question. As in, the very first question...in the very first post of this thread.

Quick question - Is there a limit as to how many photos we can send for Shelf Obsessed?

That said... *sigh* I've been coming up empty on your reviews lately, either nothing seems to be really intriguing me or I'm already watching it streamed. What've you got on your plate for the future?

Look. All these talks about the ethics of children soldiers ... Go. Watch. Now and then, here and there.
[snip]
(Please. Just go watch it Erin Finnegan or anyone else.)

I know how to read and pointing out it was from opinions was already set and clear before you did. As for the review, I'm someone who has been a writer for years now, and I can do that if you're so incline to ask.

The anime itself, Gunslinger, is rather blunt and plunges directly into the controversial problem of the government using children as weapons of war who have been turned into mindless assassin dolls because of brainwashing, "brothers" influence and a rigid control system over their freedom and behaviors. It's not a series to watch if you dislike seeing a child in the worst condition and can't get the point it's part of the story. Because it will disturb the viewer at some point you got to keep an open mind. Some stuff is pretty rough and it's fine how it is shown to me who started watching with an open mindset but I guess it's just not everybody. :p

By the end of season 2 I knew a lot about the girls and their past. A few of them created a bond sister-like so that they could live on when it got too rough. The government control aspect over the girls by "brothers" is very present in the series, something that can't be sent away with so many girls part of a psychological experiment.

The mystery surrounding the their training and lives was really interesting but sometimes shocking. It felt like old war times when they could do whatever they wanted to them and those girls were stripped of any human rights. It had a feeling of Gestapo's methods, and very abusive emotionally towards the children part of the experiment. That was one of the reason for the brainwashing, to keep them in perfect form to kill and never object to their orders.

I totally agree with the flatness of the characters, but I was also annoyed that the girls didn't really act like children, which took all the drama out of the story. Every interesting question brought up by the scenario- how do you get someone that young to kill people? What sort of effect would that have on them mentally? How would it effect the adults responsible?- was explored at an extremely superficial level or simply glossed over.

After season one, I still can't tell you much about Triela or Henreitta's personalities. Their past memories are wiped, and their current memories get re-wiped periodically, so there isn't much to go on.

And Triela kind of likes teddy bears? Character traits like "enjoying books" are not the same as full characterization.

I enjoy the science fiction aspect of this show. But as long as you're rebuilding little girls as super assassins, why not remove their tear ducts? The Social Welfare Agency is already removing other unnecessary parts. In one scene, Triela complains about having cramps and another girl mentions that her uterus was removed. (Skeevy!) I mean, it's implied none of them will live long enough to have children anyway, so…

So what you are saying here is that you associate loli with mens' desire to protect little girls? So to you any male with a cute little sister, or daughter, with a protective instinct towards them, is by your definition, loli?

I can't let that one pass because saying I'm biased when I can analyze properly something in neutral grounds by just throwing feelings out of the window doesn't ring well in my ears. Also, I happen to have watched over 700 anime series, and so, when you are writing that I haven't seen much is false.

I'm a marathon type of viewer, so whenever I start a series I go from the start to finish in one shot for every series which include even One Piece, Bleach and Naruto or any anime 100+ episodes... yeah, One Piece was hella fun but with 428 episodes I had to watch one shot at the time it was a trip I could call one of a kind. I'm still following those anime series even now while I watch new ones weekly. I like to absorb the story elements and fuse with them as the anime gets the story together after each episode.

Fallen Wings wrote:

Look. All these talks about the ethics of children soldiers ... Go. Watch. Now and then, here and there. [snip] (Please. Just go watch it Erin Finnegan or anyone else.)

I've seen bits of it, at conventions back in 2002. That show was freaking intense. It wasn't really how I'd want to spend a Saturday...

Well, no, because Shirley Temple movies were not made for the consumption of the lolicon audience. The intended audience is always really important in my reading of a film (or TV series).

Given some comments made in this thread so far, I would point out that Erin isn't the only ANN reviewer to have harsh words about Gunslinger Girls' content.

I'm sure Erin would probably consider some of the old Shirley Temple movies loli because Shirley flashed her panties a few times. And of course, she was cute and interacted with older men.

The owners of a child star are like leaseholders — their property diminishes in value every year. Time's chariot is at their backs: before them acres of anonymity. What is Jackie Coogan now but a matrimonial squabble? Miss Shirley Temple's case, though, has peculiar interest: infancy with her is a disguise, her appeal is more secret and more adult. Already two years ago she was a fancy little piece — real childhood, I think, went out after The Littlest Rebel). In Captain January she wore trousers with the mature suggestiveness of a Dietrich: her neat and well-developed rump twisted in the tap-dance: her eyes had a sidelong searching coquetry. Now in Wee Willie Winkie, wearing short kilts, she is a complete totsy. Watch her swaggering stride across the Indian barrack-square: hear the gasp of excited expectation from her antique audience when the sergeant's palm is raised: watch the way she measures a man with agile studio eyes, with dimpled depravity. Adult emotions of love and grief glissade across the mask of childhood, a childhood skin-deep.

It is clever but it cannot last. Her admirers — middle aged men and clergymen — respond to her dubious coquetry, to the sight of her well-shaped and desirable little body, packed with enormous vitality, only because the safety curtain of story and dialogue drops between their intelligence and their desire. "Why are you making my Mummy cry?" - what could be purer than that? And the scene when dressed in a white nightdress she begs grandpa to take Mummy to a dance - what could be more virginal? On those lines in her new picture, made by John Ford, who directed The Informer, is horrifyingly competent. It isn't hard to stay to the last prattle and the last sob. The story — about an Afghan robber converted by Wee Willie Winkie to the British Raj — is a long way after Kipling. But we needn't be sour about that. Both stories are awful, but on the whole Hollywood's is the better.

Artificial angst aside, something else made it even harder to enjoy this manga. The story makes a big deal out of the chemical brainwashing, and how it tends to make some of these girls absolutely adore their handlers to the point that they would kill and die for them. Much attention is given to how much power these grown men wield over these little girls. All of the little girls are as cute and girlish as china-dolls, while all of the adult women are barely distinguishable as female at first glance. In case you can't see where I'm going with this, this comic absolutely reeks of quasi-pedophilic overtones, and quite frankly I felt dirty just reading it. To its credit, Gunslinger Girl thus far makes no effort to show any kind of fanservice or nudity, but even that does little to cover up the absolutely creepy themes that are boiling beneath the surface. I can't say whether the author intended for these themes to be there or not, but they're there nonetheless.