Forum - View topicShelf Life - Apples and Oranges
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outlaw55
Posts: 52 |
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Go to urbandictionary.com and see what all of the submitted definitions say. It's pretty obvious what almost everyone on the internet (except for you guys apparently) think lolicon means. The definition is pretty consistent across the board. Refusing to admit you're wrong will just leave a lot of people with hurt feeling because they are offended, quite a few people just laughing because you are using terms incorrectly, and all for what? Pride? Typically the type of responses you guys are giving would be considered trolling. I expect trolling out of random forum members, but it's pretty embarrassing to see it coming from the staff. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Erin sees the show as having overt lolicon overtones due to the underage nature and design of the characters and the focus on their master/slave relationship with their "brothers". I can't really argue with that too much, and I can see it from her perspective, even though I don't necessarily agree with her choice of words. I don't think Gunslinger Girl is a loli show - it's far too careful about which lines it doesn't cross and doesn't (often) sexualize the underage characters, so I personally wouldn't classify it as "lolicon" per se. Other people certainly would, because their standards are different from mine. It's all such hair-splitting. I read the Urbandictionary.com definitions you posted; I've seen this argument about what lolicon is and what moe is or isn't so many times on these forums that I guarantee you most of those definitions would be nitpicked and reworded to death if people were given the chance to do so here. There is rarely monolithic agreement; I've had people tell me that Kodomo no Jikan "is not a lolicon title" and how I don't know what I'm talking about when I say Clannad is a moe show. The definitions do seem to change based on whatever the argument we're having is. And if I come across as a little flip or jokey about this whole thing, please understand that taking any of this really seriously is far sillier than anything I've said or posted. I joke around a lot; it's the only way to stay sane. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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I've been enjoying your levity, Zac. Carry on!
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zrdb
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I found Gunslinger Girl to be creepy-but for a different reason than most everybody else-if you've ever read Isaac Asimov's I Robot you know about the 3 laws of robotics-1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
2. A robot must obey orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law. 3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law. Well-if these little girls are mostly biomechanical then they are (or very nearly) robots and they are basically programmed to kill-what happened to humanity? And little girls? Why not little boys or women? |
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doctordoom85
 Posts: 2093 |
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Does any of this really matter?! It's not like Erin said the people who watch it must be sick/weird/perverts/etc. or anything of that sort, and lord knows select ANN reviews have pretty much walked up to that line (of commenting on an audience instead of the show itself), leaned over it, and said, "I still TECHNICALLY haven't crossed it".
And yet after a website's history of that, Erin is getting criticized for 7 pages only because she had a different interpretation of a series? Is that all it takes anymore? Okay, she may have misused a word, but it's not the end of the world. |
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Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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Wait, so what is this "Talkback" for if it's not for letting the writer know what we thought of the content of their article/review/etc?
Obviously if it wasn't a rather big error, there would not be so many people criticizing Erin's review, or at the very least, branding of the show as "lolicon". |
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outlaw55
Posts: 52 |
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I appreciate your very well worded and thoughtful reply  ! I understand your standpoint of her seeing what she sees and I can respectfully agree with that, but personally I would avoid calling anything moe or lolicon in a review, but that's just me. Of course, maybe that's me avoiding conflicts, lol...
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tuxedocat
 Posts: 2183 |
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Seriously now (on my part)
I didn't like Gunslinger Girl. When I watched it the first time, I never got a lolicon vibe from the show. I appreciated how much work went into the production, but the show itself was just too cruel and cynical for my tastes. I didn't think I would ever watch it again, so I didn't buy it. |
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vashfanatic
 Posts: 3489 Location: Back stateside |
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Call it "babacon." Using Japanese makes you sound cool! 
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Maigraith
Posts: 80 |
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In regards to the tear duct thing, there are more reasons to cry than just emotional. Tears can flush stuff out of your eyes, I'm guessing pretty much everyone has gotten either a speck of dust or an eyelash in your eye and knows what a pain that is.
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erinfinnegan
ANN Columnist
 Posts: 598 |
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Yeah, I've been hesitant to post my personal definition, not just for the fear that it will be picked apart, but also because I hate being wrong. I don't recognize urban dictionary as a legitimate source, and wikipedia also seems like a weak source. I don't think might makes right in the forums, either. I wanted a much more definitive source. My expert got back to me, and according to him Yotsuba& is lolicon and Gunslinger Girl is not. He claims it has everything to do with the reader's feelings towards the girls themselves and not so much with the sexual content. Although this might be closer to an agreed upon Japanese definition of lolicon, it's certainly not going to win me any friends in this country.
Yes, I think you're getting warmer. It bothered me how they kept introducing new characters without fleshing out established characters. What the heck?! Another simple "lolicon test" might be to ask "Is the original creator a lolicon artist?" in the case of GG the answer is yes. |
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Mikeski
Posts: 608 Location: Minneapolis, MN |
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Ojamajo LimePie
 Posts: 766 |
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Okay, I seriously want to know who this so-called "expert" is, and what his credentials are. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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Who do I contact at ANN to get a "jaw drop" emoticon added to the list around here? |
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Ranma824
 Posts: 456 |
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Yeah....um... despite the reaction in this thread, and my personal disagreements about your view of lolicon; you may be better off just sticking with your original opinion ^^;
See, that sounds like an ok definition of moe - but the "reader's feelings" part is just to vague. That could be anything from 'nothing' to 'sexually turned on', no matter what the content is. At the same time, the fandom usually comes to some weird sort of consensus on what terminology you can put on a show. That doesn't mean you can't have your own opinion; just be ready for threads such as this to occur. I don't know about Japan, but in R1 I don't think either Yotsuba& or GG would be labeled as lolicon. |
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