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NEWS: Yamaga: New Gainax Work to be Based on Novel


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Apollo-kun



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1213
Location: City 7, Macross 7
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:06 pm Reply with quote
KanjiiZ wrote:
Sorry dude, but I'm sure there are directors who dealt with similar issues (like Hiroyuki Morita and Bokurano) and at least stuck through with the show. A competent director also doesn't have emotional breakdowns.
I concur with KanjiiZ. Akira Kurosawa suffered from severe depression, and that never impeded upon his work. Also: just because a director doesn't like what the studio is doing with something is not a valid reason to leave the project. It's a bit self-centered.
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KanjiiZ



Joined: 28 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:09 pm Reply with quote
DrizzlingEnthalpy wrote:
KanjiiZ wrote:
Sorry dude, but I'm sure there are directors who dealt with similar issues (like Hiroyuki Morita and Bokurano) and at least stuck through with the show. A competent director also doesn't have emotional breakdowns.
David Lynch left Twin Peaks because he couldn't do it the way he wanted to. Is he incompetent? If I were making a series and couldn't do it the way I wanted, I probably wouldn't want to work on it at all either. It takes the joy out of the process of creation. If it's nothing but frustration and you're not even satisfied with the product, why continue?


I'm too damn lazy to link to the wiki I read from a week ago, but didn't he come back (stopped at season one)? I would at least have some respect for a person who came back. As to your question, do I find David Lynch as imcompetent as Anno? Slightly less so.
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DrizzlingEnthalpy



Joined: 13 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:09 pm Reply with quote
If the work you're producing isn't what you want to make, it's upsetting to work on it, and other people are willing to finish it for you, why is it necessary or desirable to continue yourself?
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KanjiiZ



Joined: 28 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:13 pm Reply with quote
I wouldn't know, I'm not a director. Directors have to be special people who know how to tolerate such things and come up with new concepts if a voice actor (in the case of anime) or a person in the cast dies or else any other outside influences interfere. If it wasn't for special traits, any bum with an idea would get his works published, on TV, in the theatres, etc.

Slightly off-topic: We'd have a bunch of Dragon Ball knock-offs and panty harem OEL titles published by Tokyopop if it wasn't for author quality control.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:14 pm Reply with quote
Apollo-kun wrote:
garfield15 wrote:
Apollo-kun wrote:
A show about kindergarteners that's a blatant attempt at ensnaring moe-crazed otaku?

Again, did you actually watch that show?
Yes. Yes I have. It was funny, I'll admit, and I warmed up to it after a bit, BUT it still wasn't up to par with what one would typically expect from Gainax.


"typically expect from Gainax ORIGINALS" Gainax has made poor adaptations in the past, like Melody of Oblivion among others. Yes, there IS a difference.
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Apollo-kun



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
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Location: City 7, Macross 7
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:15 pm Reply with quote
garfield15 wrote:
Apollo-kun wrote:
garfield15 wrote:
Apollo-kun wrote:
A show about kindergarteners that's a blatant attempt at ensnaring moe-crazed otaku?

Again, did you actually watch that show?
Yes. Yes I have. It was funny, I'll admit, and I warmed up to it after a bit, BUT it still wasn't up to par with what one would typically expect from Gainax.

So just because it was something you wouldn't normally expect from Gainax=Not up to par with the past. If it contains it's own charm while still keeping those little Gainax touches, why can't it be judged as something favorable toward the company?

(And honestly, that is the "moe" that I would like to see more of)
Gainax touches? Would those be the references to their past works which were more or less shoehorned in? I'm sorry, and I'm not one to typically judge studios by their past works, but making such a trifle of a show after the high-voltage "Gurren Lagann" just seems like a let-down.

However, I will agree with your sentiments that more "moe" needs to be like what we saw in "Hanamaru." I'm getting pretty tired of exploitive, cookie-cutter shows that claim to be aiming for "cute", but are really just highly-sexualized attempts at trapping virginal otaku. "Hanamaru" showed us that something can be cute without being sexy, and that's why I'm slightly partial to it.
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egoist



Joined: 20 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:19 pm Reply with quote
Apollo-kun wrote:
"Hanamaru" showed us that something can be cute without being sexy, and that's why I'm slightly partial to it.

What? The adults were pretty well sexualized according to my understanding. "True moe" bologus, K-ON! didn't sexualize their characters as much.
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Apollo-kun



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:21 pm Reply with quote
KanjiiZ wrote:
I wouldn't know, I'm not a director. Directors have to be special people who know how to tolerate such things and come up with new concepts if a voice actor (in the case of anime) or a person in the cast dies or else any other outside influences interfere. If it wasn't for special traits, any bum with an idea would get his works published, on TV, in the theatres, etc.

Slightly off-topic: We'd have a bunch of Dragon Ball knock-offs and panty harem OEL titles published by Tokyopop if it wasn't for author quality control.
I'm a director (you haven't heard of me; none of the stuff I've made is even close to quality one would expect from a motion picture release, although I do have a pretty snazzy website if I do say so myself), so perhaps I can weigh in on this?

If a studio tampers with my original concept, or an actor suddenly quits/dies, or I randomly get stricken with a bout of depression, I'm going to find away around it. In the case of the first situation, which seems to be the one we're discussing, I would stick to the project. Why? Because, despite the fact that it may be an alteration from my original concept, the fact remains that I started something, and I'm going to finish it. It's a matter of personal pride that dates back to the basic concept of manhood: you don't start ANYthing unless you're ready to see it through, for better or worse, until the end.

As far as the depression spiel goes, I'll say this once again: there have been SEVERAL artists with depression, and many of them didn't let it impede upon their work. Using it as an excuse to not finish something is preposterous.
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DrizzlingEnthalpy



Joined: 13 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:23 pm Reply with quote
KanjiiZ wrote:
I wouldn't know, I'm not a director. Directors have to be special people who know how to tolerate such things and come up with new concepts if a voice actor (in the case of anime) or a person in the cast dies or else any other outside influences interfere. If it wasn't for special traits, any bum with an idea would get his works published, on TV, in the theatres, etc.
Directors direct because they want to create great (or at least good) works of art; if they're unable to do so due to whatever reason, it defeats the entire purpose of directing. Unless they're just in it for the money. Anno made the best of the collapse of Evangelion's production system and the directions he had to take as a result arguably made the show way better; with Kare Kano that wasn't an option, as he started out with someone else's characters and situations and upset the person who they belonged to. Not exactly the best planning, but if he wasn't able to do the show as he wanted to, there was no reason for him to remain involved at all. It would just result in unnecessary frustration and a show that probably wouldn't have been any better than the one Tsurumaki ended up helming. What's wrong with handing the show off to someone else if work is painful for you and you don't even like the result?
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Apollo-kun



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
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Location: City 7, Macross 7
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:23 pm Reply with quote
egoist wrote:
Apollo-kun wrote:
"Hanamaru" showed us that something can be cute without being sexy, and that's why I'm slightly partial to it.

What? The adults were pretty well sexualized according to my understanding. "True moe" bologus, K-ON! didn't sexualize their characters as much.
Hmm, the adults were KIND of sexualized, but more in that special "Gainax way"; i.e. fan service that borders on creepy, but ends up coming across as cheeky. And I haven't seen K-On yet (yes, you now have permission to slap me; I generally don't like watching fan-subs, unless it's something truly hysterical like "B Gata H Kei"), so I can't weigh in on that show.
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garfield15



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:24 pm Reply with quote
egoist wrote:
Apollo-kun wrote:
"Hanamaru" showed us that something can be cute without being sexy, and that's why I'm slightly partial to it.

What? The adults were pretty well sexualized according to my understanding. "True moe" bologus, K-ON! didn't sexualize their characters as much.

Who's talking about the adults? He was talking about the main Kindergarten girls being cute without having to be sexy about it. And even the adults weren't that sexualized minus the Gainax Bounce whenever Yamamoto was in a swimsuit.
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Splitter



Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 1276
Location: Knockin' on Heaven's Door
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:25 pm Reply with quote
Apollo-kun wrote:
egoist wrote:
Apollo-kun wrote:
"Hanamaru" showed us that something can be cute without being sexy, and that's why I'm slightly partial to it.

What? The adults were pretty well sexualized according to my understanding. "True moe" bologus, K-ON! didn't sexualize their characters as much.
Hmm, the adults were KIND of sexualized, but more in that special "Gainax way"; i.e. fan service that borders on creepy, but ends up coming across as cheeky. And I haven't seen K-On yet (yes, you now have permission to slap me; I generally don't like watching fan-subs, unless it's something truly hysterical like "B Gata H Kei"), so I can't weigh in on that show.


I thought that whole "Anzu loves Tsucchi" thing would fade in time... no, that was the whole plot. And yes, she was totally serious about being in love with him. It was KoJikan trying to pretend it wasn't KoJikan. The dream sequence in the final episode made that explicitly clear.

"I haven't seen K-ON! yet but I know they are true moe!" = *facedesk Kuroko-style*

B Gata H Kei is what people who can't handle Kiss x Sis watch.


Last edited by Splitter on Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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DrizzlingEnthalpy



Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 255
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:26 pm Reply with quote
Apollo-kun wrote:
If a studio tampers with my original concept, or an actor suddenly quits/dies, or I randomly get stricken with a bout of depression, I'm going to find away around it. In the case of the first situation, which seems to be the one we're discussing, I would stick to the project. Why? Because, despite the fact that it may be an alteration from my original concept, the fact remains that I started something, and I'm going to finish it. It's a matter of personal pride that dates back to the basic concept of manhood: you don't start ANYthing unless you're ready to see it through, for better or worse, until the end.
I could understand the complaint if Kare Kano was just dropped when Anno left, but Tsurumaki finished it. The show was finished... at least in terms of episode count. Anno didn't "abort" the show. He gave it up for adoption to a trusted friend.
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Apollo-kun



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:27 pm Reply with quote
DrizzlingEnthalpy wrote:
Apollo-kun wrote:
If a studio tampers with my original concept, or an actor suddenly quits/dies, or I randomly get stricken with a bout of depression, I'm going to find away around it. In the case of the first situation, which seems to be the one we're discussing, I would stick to the project. Why? Because, despite the fact that it may be an alteration from my original concept, the fact remains that I started something, and I'm going to finish it. It's a matter of personal pride that dates back to the basic concept of manhood: you don't start ANYthing unless you're ready to see it through, for better or worse, until the end.
I could understand the complaint if Kare Kano was just dropped when Anno left, but Tsurumaki finished it. The show was finished... at least in terms of episode count. Anno didn't "abort" the show. He gave it up for adoption to a trusted friend.
(!)

Wow, I did not know that. That kind of changes my perception of it a bit. Thanks for that insight. ^^
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KanjiiZ



Joined: 28 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:34 pm Reply with quote
To be fair he handed it over to his trusted friend who had never directed anything before in his life and whos only credits at the time involved being an animation director on an "island episode" of the godawful Nadia Blue Waters and and animator on some other movie.
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