Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2010-06-12]
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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Okay, Brian, I'll answer your question. I wait. I understand your question's towards the manga crowd, but I'm going to throw it out for all entertainment. I've hit a fan sub site "3" times in my lifetime. The first was to view Demonbane. Should I wait for this title to get released? If I did, I'd be waiting forever. I seriously doubt this title will ever see the light of day in this country. According to the Encyclopedia it was licensed in the US by Kadokawa Pictures USA but I'm guessing it just didn't go beyond this. Why this particular series? Because I own two figures of Al-Azif. This figure lead me to the series, so I scoped it out. Some will say I'm okay to do this because I contributed something back despite the actual series not licensed. Some say I'm only entitled to the figure, and that's it. The point remains: I am still waiting. The second to view was Clannad and After Story. I discovered this show through TANoD. After watching the first 5 episodes, I wanted more. Wait? Sure, I could have waited, but I didn't want to. I was selfish, so off I ran to watch (not download) the entire series. The wait failure in this regard was due to the content's story. It sold itself and I lost self control to wait. But it all worked out in the end, because I own it on DVD. The final time was to view one episode of Kodomo no Jikan, just to see for myself what the fuss was about. The rest of the episodes remain unwatched (and will probably stay that way). Should I have waited for this license before rushing off to view one episode? Heh, I believe we're right back to the Demonbane issue. I don't think anyone here will disagree there's no chance this title will get licensed. Brian, I'm tired of waiting. At 43 years of age, I've paid my dues. I followed the rules most of my life. I'm not sorry these industries are feeling the punch of the digital age. Yes, I'm a prick about this, but we're all now to the point where these "windows" are no longer necessary simply because we must pay for our content. The age of plastic disks and dead trees is over. Period. Disagree if one wants, but this is how it is. I didn't make this rule. The market did. Yet these companies are still trying to encapsulate content in windows, acting as gate keepers. I'm still trying to do my best to "wait", but I'm losing my patience. It does suck people are leaping over the fence of these gatekeepers to enjoy the content. Why? Because while I'm waiting to pay for it, they're freakin' enjoying it. I'm not stupid enough to realize the implication of these actions. As content hits the internet, there's a risk a legitimate distribution won't occur. We're seeing this. There's no disputing this. But make no mistake, Brian, for there will be a time when you and I both become part of the digital market. We can wait all we want to, but as we do, businesses close and new ones open. We will have no choice but to enter this market because that's how it's been since the dawn of economics. So what the hell is waiting doing for us? Nothing but shafting ourselves as we hope our waiting pays off while these industries "work it out" to distribute, an act that's more of a problem than a solution which is leading people to bypass the waiting whether these industries like it or not. That's why I'm losing my patience. I see the future and it doesn't look good for us who understand the need for artists to get paid while knowing economics states an infinite good costs $0. That's why people need to freakin' understand we're not paying for content. So give us something we will pay for now, not while we wait. For not doing so will increase the chances those who wait become those who don't. Proof of this already exists. Hopefully, this helps you understand the issue from someone who knows what's going on while waiting, and not some kid who discovered manga online from a Google search. |
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vanillahellsing
 Posts: 4 |
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Your choice of quotations was interesting and effective. I'll look deep into my soul for "compassion" for these "starving" artists. In the mean time I'll light a stick of incense for the american anime "industry" and try not to be so selfish. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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beep boop i am a robot please explain what are these human 'feelings' you describe |
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Kyokat
Posts: 50 |
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Two answers: One, as already mentioned, is spoilers. I'm sick of getting spoiled for One Piece just because I'm on a forum thread trying to find out about new figures coming out or something. And while you can theoretically make your US-only forum thread for chapter talk, if you want the figures when they're first released (and therefore not marked up 200%), you have to be up to date. But that's only if you socialize or collect or engage in any kind of fandom behavior, which is not quite as many people as perhaps the posters on ANN might guess. Much bigger, I think, is reason two: it's a story. People want to know what happens next, and they want to know now. And if that's being selfish and greedy, it's been a human trait since we first began story-telling. Ever heard of the Arabian Nights? Scheherazade staves off certain death because the king is desparate to know what happens next. Or on a more mundane level, who hasn't lost sleep because they were in the middle of a really good book, or even just a mediocre potboiler, but they couldn't put it down until four in the morning despite that important meeting the next day? There is some kind of inherent need in human beings to know what happens next, preferably absolutely as soon as possible, and I don't think appealing to their morality is going to help when a lot of them do already buy the books when they can and the rest treat it like TV, to be read once, talked over, and then dropped as they move on to other things, even if just last month the series finale was all they could talk about. |
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Greed1914
 Posts: 4426 |
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But isn't exercising self control also part of being human? If finding out the next bit of story was the only goal, then people would want spoilers, not avoid them. I've struggled with understanding why people can't wait ever since simulcasts became a more common occurence on sites like Hulu or Crunchyroll. People have to wait a week between the Japanese air dates anyway, so why not wait and have it be legal and supportive? Even if it's something they were downloading, it would only mean waiting two weeks once, and then they're back on the one week schedule. |
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eyeresist
 Posts: 995 Location: a 320x240 resolution igloo (Sydney) |
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Yeah, it's called "deferment of gratification". Something to do with being an adult, or so I've heard. Regarding this week's question, I'm kind of puzzled as to whether to reply, as there's so much difference of opinion over what is "old" anime. I assume Brian means up to mid-90s, but for some people five years ago is ancient history! |
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vashfanatic
 Posts: 3489 Location: Back stateside |
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Um, actually manga-ka generally get paid crap, so... You know, I used to read a lot more scans, but then I found the wondrous glory that is a public library. You'd be amazed how little stuff you need to track down on the internet when you discover you already own (communally via taxes) a bunch of manga already. I have read so much manga via my library first: Akira, After School Nightmare, Angel Sanctuary, Basara, Battle Angel Alita, Bokurano, Buddha, Ceres: Celestial Legend, Children of the Sea, Claymore, D.N.Angel, Domu, Eden, ES, Fullmetal Alchemist, Genshiken, Ghost in the Shell, Godchild, Hellsing, Ikigami, King of Thorn, Kurosagi Corpse Delivery Service, Lone Wolf and Cub, MW, Nodame Cantabile (in all its poorly translated glory), Ode to Kirihito, Ouran High School host Club, Parasyte, Phoenix, Rurouni Kenshin, Sand Chronicles, Sexy Voice and Robo, Skip Beat!, Solanin, Trigun, Vagabond, Vampire Knight, With the Light, X. A number of other series that I either bought at recommendations or borrowed from friends or even (tsk tsk to me) read online before they came out I could have gotten via the library. So yeah, check out yours. |
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UltimaLuminaire
Posts: 18 |
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I think what's bothering you is acceptance, not understanding. Even the most laid back individual can still understand the driving force of others given time and resource. You seem to have both. To put it bluntly, you just don't like people who revel in immediate rewards and benefits because it goes against your belief. I'd go so far as to say you reject the concept of hedonism (to an extent). Whether it's the adult/human thing to do or not isn't really an issue in this case. |
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rinmackie
 Posts: 1040 Location: in a van! down by the river! |
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Just dropping in to give my 2 cents. (Which I'd donate to the anime/manga industry if I could.) I pretty much agree with everything PJ posted earlier. Except the part about the dead trees and plastic discs; digital may be the wave of the future but I'll keep my dead trees and plastic discs. Not just because I like having physical copies but they're the only things propping up the industry, it seems.
Back when I first became an anime fan, resisting fansubs/scans was easy. Not just because the internet wasn't as advanced as it is now, but the industry was doing well and getting bigger. Then the bubble burst and internet content and access got better and easier. Licenses were dropped or went into permanent hiatus. We became aware of all the stuff left back in Japan and how far behind we were in some series. As first I could resist, then Geneon who held the license to Hellsing Ultimate went under. Funimation picked up distribution rights; Vol 4, which was already finished was released. It's been about 2 years and I'm still waiting for the legal R1 release of the the rest of it. Meanwhile in Japan, they're up to volume 7! Yes, I could import but it's too expensive and I happen to really love the English dub cast which may be replaced even if it ever gets released again. I'll confess I finally broke and watched a fansub of vol 5 but I have yet to watch the rest. Since then I've watched the occasional fansub; I even watched Vampire Knight before it was licenced. But I'm going to buy it when it's released because I like it and I want to hear it in English. And yes I'm reading the latest VK chapter scans but I own all ten legal releases. I buy not just to support the industry, but I prefer books to computer screens. Plus the translations are better and don't have to put up with scanalotor's constant fangirling! But I still like to keep up with the latest chapters; a service Viz doesn't provide for this series yet. Yes, things are better than the VHS era but there are still (I think) legitimate reasons for fansubs/scans. As long as you buy the licensed stuff, I'm ok with it. It's just that I and others like me don't like being lumped in with those moochers who never buy. They are the ones causing the problem and making it harder on the rest of us. |
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vanillahellsing
Posts: 4 |
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I'm the reason my local library started carrying manga. I was 15 at the time and I volunteered a lot. So much that they eventually hired me to shelve books once I was old enough to legally work there. I taught the young adult librarian about which series were the most popular in Japan, which ones would actually be allowed to go into circulation, and how to pronounce the author's names. Now, six years later, that library has the biggest manga collection in the state of Arkansas. I'm not going to read scanlations of something I can buy online (because Arkansas bookstores are a joke) or get for free at the local library. I will read scanlations of titles that have been discontinued over here or will never be licensed. I also refuse to call someone "SPOILED AND IMMATURE DERP DERP I'M AN ADULT NOW GUYS" just because they want to read their comics for free. More power to them, I guess.
We must construct additional Cylons. |
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prosumer
Posts: 11 |
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Many people have asked for reasons why one might download scanlations. Since it's related I'll throw in my 2cents for fansubs too. Sorry I'm a bit more of an anime consumer than manga, though I enjoy both.
Quite simply the reason one might download scanlations and fansubs, licensing issues. Fansubs: Often times I find that HD anime content is never licensed and released stateside. Almost every anime shown for the past few years was aired in HD quality, and released on BD shortly after airing in Japan. Unfortunately japanese HD releases don't have english subtitles. On yesasia.com there are 49 anime titles on blu-ray with english subtitles, out of 838 releases. Scanlations: Often times I find that manga is never licensed and translated stateside. Friends of mine in Japan are reading manga and clue me in on it. They are talking about it and want to share with me. I track down the scanlation and I can enjoy the manga with them at the same time they do. And often it never gets licensed stateside. If it does, I buy it. What a notion! Result: As a result, I am a voracious consumer of media from Japan over p2p. I have several terabytes (NAS raid array) of content I have downloaded and watched. I go through and delete what I didn't like when I start running out of space. For the things I do enjoy I wait for them to be licensed and released here like a slug waits for the rain. Thank you to all the scanlation and fansub groups who help us bring two countries closer together at light speed (internet). Digression: I had a good friend of mine who opened an Anime rental store. We talked about this stuff all the time. He was pretty vehement about the anti-piracy position, obviously it effected him personally. Wow the collection of anime at his store was incredible. I miss it so much! Netflix actually has a pretty decent collection but when you really start using Netflix you realize there are many TV series they are missing a disc or two from because it's sometimes difficult to find even licensed anime replacements! When Geneon went under in 2007 it was amazing the feeling we had at how the value of the discs he had suddenly went up! |
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prosumer
Posts: 11 |
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And more on topic... thanks for the head up about noitaminA. Eden of the East was an incredible series! Too bad it will probably never see a stateside HD release.
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Kyokat
Posts: 50 |
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Note: The following are primarily meant as explanations, not justifications. There is a difference.
Have you ever met a human? Because if you think people are all about self control, have I got some news for you.
Spoilers aren't a story, they're information. People want to know what happens next, but they want context and anticipation too. Or else, why would people watch football games when they can just get the score later and save themselves the trouble?
Ah, but that's an artificial constraint. It's very different from a real contraint. A real constraint, like the author only being able to draw so fast, well, there's nothing you can do about it except maybe write some fanfic (which people do). So people live with it. An artificial constraint that can be circumnavigated with minor effort? That maybe even makes it a little exciting to find thanks to the hunt? Most people aren't going to be bound by that kind of restriction. It has nothing to do with only being able to wait a week and everything to do with wanting what's available as soon as possible. Do you think if Harry Potter hadn't been simultaneously released world-wide the other countries would have meekly waited for their copies, or do you think they would have imported/downloaded it like mad? Sure, they'd already been waiting two years since the last book, but do you think even a week's delay from the UK release would have been considered acceptable by the majority population?
Yeah, never.
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