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REVIEW: Toradora! DVD 1 Eps. 1-7 Preview


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Shiney



Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:56 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Bought through rightstuf, it comes out to about four dollars an episode (not counting shipping costs). The entire series of Ouran Host Club (26 episodes) can be had for about 52 dollars on Blu-Ray. That comes out to around two dollars an episode, and there is a dub included. Twice as much as the competition despite the competition being on Blu-Ray and having a dub? That isn't a reasonable price in my opinion.

I've always wanted subtitle only releases because I thought that the lack of cost involved with dubbing would bring prices down. This is the exact opposite of that, and I can't figure out how they could think it is a good pricing strategy.


Ouran High School Host Club was first released in 2 parts, both were 13 episodes, just like ... GASP Toradora. You're comparing the very first release of NisA in R1 to a re-release regular edition ( no hardcover art book / art box ), obviously the price will be different.

And who to say NisA won't do a regular edition re-release of Toradora in the future ...
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Zin5ki



Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 6680
Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:14 pm Reply with quote
egoist wrote:
I don't exactly love the series, but would definitely buy it if given a UK release.

You may have to wait quite a while. Though I have a suspicion that a large number of fans over here are content with sub-only releases, I don't know much about the size of the local market for romantic comedy. Certainly, this title is described as being capable of dwarfing the appeal of certain niches within romantic anime, but at first glance it may struggle to match the mainstream popularity of favoured titles outside the romance genre.
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captainbanana



Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 191
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:14 pm Reply with quote
ZenErik wrote:
captainbanana wrote:
Bought through rightstuf, it comes out to about four dollars an episode (not counting shipping costs). The entire series of Ouran Host Club (26 episodes) can be had for about 52 dollars on Blu-Ray. That comes out to around two dollars an episode, and there is a dub included. Twice as much as the competition despite the competition being on Blu-Ray and having a dub? That isn't a reasonable price in my opinion.

I've always wanted subtitle only releases because I thought that the lack of cost involved with dubbing would bring prices down. This is the exact opposite of that, and I can't figure out how they could think it is a good pricing strategy.

Your comparison is not fair. Ouran was originally released in half season sets with a MSRP of $60 each, and the first came in October 2008. I can't imagine the extras were comparable either. The advantage Ouran has would be the dub, of course. So yes, if you wanted to wait 1 1/2 years, you could get Ouran on Blu Ray with a MSRP of $70.

Also consider that this Toradora release is considered a "premium edition". They may later release a regular edition for somewhere between $40 - $50 MSRP.


My comparison is lacking a bit certainly, but why are we talking about MSRP now? I'm sure Ouran's half season sets went for much less on Amazon when they debuted. I'm sure a better comparison could be found, of a brand new show that is the same price (for a full series) as toradora is for half, but I can't think of one off the top of my head.

I don't put very much value onto how new a release is. Since everyone that would be buying a special edition release has probably already seen the show anyway, what difference does it make if there is a bit of a wait until the cheaper boxed set? We all know it is inevitable. Limited purchasing dollars being what they are, if I can get an entire show, on Blu-Ray, with a dub, for the same price as another company is charging for half a show on DVD, the choice is clear to me.

I guess the only way the set would be worth it to me is if I saw the value in owning the art book. Since I don't, I'd much rather have seen a "regular edition" alongside the special edition, at a much lower price. Since there isn't a regular edition, the special edition sort of becomes the regular edition by default, and as such, it's priced too high for my tastes.

Then again, I'm not the type of person that buys something on release day because I just have to own it. I have no shortage of patience to expend while waiting for a cheaper release. Is it fair to the company putting the DVD's out? Maybe not, but it's reality. I just don't know how many people are going to spend fifty dollars on thirteen episode of an anime when all of them know it will be released cheaper at a slightly later date. Then again, since they didn't have to pay for a dub, their margins are probably high enough that they only need to sell a fraction of what Funi would need to in order to make a profit.

Is it just me, or is Toradora not available on Amazon? If this is the case, it makes their marketing strategy even more questionable.



Edit: Amazon currently still has the Ouran DVD sets for about 50 a piece. That would put the pricing in line with Toradora. Having said that, Ouran does have a dub, meaning it cost more to make, and it's a comparatively justifiable price compared to Toradora which is without a dub. How much value any individual person puts into a dub is up to them, but I'd put enough value into it to say without hesitation that Toradora is overpriced in its current form. If you enjoy art books and hate dubs though, I can see why it would be worth it to you.


Last edited by captainbanana on Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dark Paladin X



Joined: 20 Aug 2009
Posts: 268
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:24 pm Reply with quote
AnimeFollower wrote:


2. Toradora aside, and I mean all of the anime sold in general, we are not living in the "Roaring 20's" of the anime industry. We are not living in the times of the anime boom. Pokemon did not just come out yesterday. Whether we like it or not, we are living in the "Great Depression" of the anime industry. You are going to have to scrape by with what anime we can get from the anime "soup lines". If this means that your favorite anime is coming out in sub-only form, you BUY it in sub-only form. You don't grouse and bitch and moan about "Oh no! There is no dub! I am not buying!" You no longer have the luxury of buying/not buying an anime SIMPLY because there is/is not a dub. If you liked the show when you saw the free, sub-only version, it is your DUTY to buy the dvds when they become available to buy. Period.


Actually, I consider more of the "Great Depression" of the entertainment industry in general, but anime is taking the hardest hit.

There are some series where I had to watch sub-only because it was the only option available and I still happen to enjoy the series (School Days, Sketchbook ~full Color'S~, To Aru Majutsu no Index).

But hopefully, if the economy recovers, they might go back and do dubbing again. I mean, look at the 1970s recession. The movie industry took a hard hit and many studios were forced to produce very low-budget films. Yet, when the recession ended, the movie studios manage to return making high quality films in the 80s and 90s.

Yes, I'm really disappointed that there are less and less dubs nowadays. But you consider that there is something called a economy cycle. There are times of ups, and there are times of downs. I'm not economic expert, but I could say that NIS America is a very new company.

loka wrote:
Ariolander wrote:
Rie Kugimiya is the Queen of Tsundere and every american VA who has tried to play one of her tsunderes has failed. With Rie Kugimiya at the lead it is fine as-is. I don't think anyone can replace her.


So true.
Failed. Miserably.


I had to disagree with you here. Cristina did a very nice job with Louise from Familiar of Zero. But then again, I can't change your opinions (unless if you have personally heard the dub VA of Shana and Louise, you shouldn't jump into conclusions).
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captainbanana



Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 191
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:44 pm Reply with quote
Dark Paladin X wrote:
AnimeFollower wrote:


2. Toradora aside, and I mean all of the anime sold in general, we are not living in the "Roaring 20's" of the anime industry. We are not living in the times of the anime boom. Pokemon did not just come out yesterday. Whether we like it or not, we are living in the "Great Depression" of the anime industry. You are going to have to scrape by with what anime we can get from the anime "soup lines". If this means that your favorite anime is coming out in sub-only form, you BUY it in sub-only form. You don't grouse and bitch and moan about "Oh no! There is no dub! I am not buying!" You no longer have the luxury of buying/not buying an anime SIMPLY because there is/is not a dub. If you liked the show when you saw the free, sub-only version, it is your DUTY to buy the dvds when they become available to buy. Period.


Actually, I consider more of the "Great Depression" of the entertainment industry in general, but anime is taking the hardest hit.

There are some series where I had to watch sub-only because it was the only option available and I still happen to enjoy the series (School Days, Sketchbook ~full Color'S~, To Aru Majutsu no Index).

But hopefully, if the economy recovers, they might go back and do dubbing again. I mean, look at the 1970s recession. The movie industry took a hard hit and many studios were forced to produce very low-budget films. Yet, when the recession ended, the movie studios manage to return making high quality films in the 80s and 90s.

Yes, I'm really disappointed that there are less and less dubs nowadays. But you consider that there is something called a economy cycle. There are times of ups, and there are times of downs. I'm not economic expert, but I could say that NIS America is a very new company.

loka wrote:
Ariolander wrote:
Rie Kugimiya is the Queen of Tsundere and every american VA who has tried to play one of her tsunderes has failed. With Rie Kugimiya at the lead it is fine as-is. I don't think anyone can replace her.


So true.
Failed. Miserably.


I had to disagree with you here. Cristina did a very nice job with Louise from Familiar of Zero. But then again, I can't change your opinions (unless if you have personally heard the dub VA of Shana and Louise, you shouldn't jump into conclusions).


Anime is probably being hit the hardest due to the niche appeal. At least hollywood can keep churning out garbage like transformers to pay the bills. Japan tries to do something similar by putting out moe show after moe show, but it seems to be backfiring on them by shrinking foreign markets that aren't as interested in the genre.

Oh, and to whomever said it was our duty to buy something subbed; No it is not. If we value dubs (which I do because the only time friends will watch anything with me is when it's dubbed, otherwise I only watch subs) it's our duty to show them that subbed only releases won't work at the dubbed price. Sub only releases have historically been a financial disaster anyway, haven't they? I'm all for sub only releases at a lowered cost, but I refuse to pay the same price for less (and I don't care about art books, fancy boxes, t-shirts, or any of the other pack-in crap that constitutes a "special edition").
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Almaz



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 134
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:45 pm Reply with quote
lesterf1020 wrote:
Hi, I just thought that I would take this thread off topic for a moment and talk about Toradora!. I like the show a lot because of its very natural character driven feel. The characters are a fresh take, for me, on common romantic comedy tropes. I especially loved the development of Ami as a character. She was a refreshing take on the love rival. While I was not completely satisfied with the final episodes of the show I did think it flowed fairly logically.

So for anyone who likes a slightly off beat romantic comedy I would recommend Toradora!.

You can now return to the subject of this thread. The never ending dub-sub war because we can never have too many threads on that and I suppose someone will eventually win it before the world ends.


One of the best on topic comments of this forum.


It is shameful to start off having a new company to anime, NISA, put down at a time like this. I know NISA had problems with some of their gaming titles. However, they are one of the FEW companies who try to bring the best quality for the cheapest price in gaming and anime. It a company who has to pay their employees and their distribution costs. Not copying off of the screen and freely sub it for the Internet.

Toradora is too good of a show to be torpedoed due to "issues" especially since it is the "version" most people watch and loved (OR SO THEY SAID.) The characters and the interaction of characters is what make Toradora an excellent show. It has one of the best chick fights in an anime too. The creators did a good job in writing characters that are the typical anime personalities and bringing them to life in a new way.

@AnimeFollower I agree with your comments completely.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8360
Location: IL
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:01 pm Reply with quote
captainbanana wrote:
Sub only releases have historically been a financial disaster anyway, haven't they?

Not at all. Looks at how much anime Sentai has licensed recently, and they've been doing sub-only releases for quite awhile now, and are just stepping into the dub market with Clannad. And, looking now at the "Best Sellers" on Rightstuf, Toradora is #2 this week while the Clannad is #3 (for comparison sake, the Clannad sub-only sets were each #1 for the week they were released).

Personally, I'm all for sub-only sets. I don't watch shows dubbed because I've already become familiar with the Japanese cast.

So yeah. Toradora. I wish it didn't go all melodramatic, but hey, some people like that. At least the comedic first half is worth it.
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Jedi Master



Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 400
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:03 pm Reply with quote
Sirch wrote:
Huge popular fansub shows can bomb here in R1 for various reasons but not letting the industry know why they bomb doesn't help at all. If Toradora sales suck, what's to tell NIS that the show didn't sell because it just isn't popular or because it didn't have a dub (or various other reasons).


That's why dub fans are making noise here. Make enough noise and the industry might listen. It seems to have worked for sub fans.

Sarkozy wrote:
Good job on doing damage to an already fractured industry by failing to support a series you like. You are now just as bad, if not worse than someone who watches fansubs and doesn't support the industry in some way, shape or form. Bravo. *looks over at the dub fanatics*


Hey, dub fans do support the industry by buying DVDs of series they like that have dubs. If series A doesn't have a dub, the purchase goes to series B that does.

Key wrote:
And refusing to buy it just because it's not dubbed when you've already enjoyed it in fansubbed form


I've never watched this series at all but heard good things about it. I would have bought the dub, but you can't buy something that doesn't exist. Lost sales, lost sales...

ZenErik wrote:
It seems that certain dub fans are saying that they are fully capable of watching and loving a series that is subbed but ONLY when it is free (and usually illegal). That makes no sense. Period.


Hey now, I'm sure the sub streams at ANN are totally legit. I'm not buying a sub only DVD, but if a legal version of the sub ever shows up on ANN I'll watch if no dub exists.

machetecat wrote:

but then I saw HARCOVER ART BOOK, squealed like no tomorrow, and straight up bought that sucker. I consider the art book to be $20, so I'm really paying $30 for the DVDs anyway.


Yeah, it look like a nice art book. In addition to the hardcover it's written in English too, which is extra super awesome. I would actually buy that book for $20 without the sub-only DVD tied to it. (edit: just saw the book is only about 30 pages, so yeah, $20...)

AnimeFollower wrote:
If this means that your favorite anime is coming out in sub-only form, you BUY it in sub-only form. You don't grouse and bitch and moan about "Oh no! There is no dub! I am not buying!" You no longer have the luxury of buying/not buying an anime SIMPLY because there is/is not a dub. If you liked the show when you saw the free, sub-only version, it is your DUTY to buy the dvds when they become available to buy. Period.


I complain to provide a counterpoint to those who cry out for companies to release anime DVDs in sub-only form. I have never seen this show but wanted to buy a dub version based on all the buzz online. For my own financial health it is my DUTY to remain within my budget for luxury items like anime.

I'm not buying this sub only release but hope for a dub release in a few years. Afterall, I'm only interested based on others praise for the show and am in no rush to buy a version that does not appeal to me. The store shelves are well stocked with dubbed anime DVDs that actually are on my buy list and will be purchased in time as my budget allows.

Oh yeah, *PERIOD*. Seriously, what is up with that? I've seen it pop up a couple of times in this thread.


Last edited by Jedi Master on Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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John Casey



Joined: 31 May 2009
Posts: 1853
Location: In My Angry Center
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:10 pm Reply with quote
I haven't seen this much bullshit in a thread since that day Boris The Meat-Grinder Operator decided to go vegan.

Going from a monetary standpoint, along with industry standards, yes, this release is most certainly bullshit.

It doesn't have anything to do with people who prefer dubs, subs, whatever. It's simply the cheap way NISA is handling it, then demanding way too much for it.
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captainbanana



Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 191
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:19 pm Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
captainbanana wrote:
Sub only releases have historically been a financial disaster anyway, haven't they?

Not at all. Looks at how much anime Sentai has licensed recently, and they've been doing sub-only releases for quite awhile now, and are just stepping into the dub market with Clannad. And, looking now at the "Best Sellers" on Rightstuf, Toradora is #2 this week while the Clannad is #3 (for comparison sake, the Clannad sub-only sets were each #1 for the week they were released).

Personally, I'm all for sub-only sets. I don't watch shows dubbed because I've already become familiar with the Japanese cast.

So yeah. Toradora. I wish it didn't go all melodramatic, but hey, some people like that. At least the comedic first half is worth it.


I only watch subbed anime as well; it's my friends that refuse to acknowledge anything that requires them to read subtitles =/. As such, being the social creature that I am, the only things I really buy are shows I can watch with others (meaning things with dubs)

I could be netflixing every single show and not buying anything at all. That would make my contribution only slightly higher than people that only watch fansubs, but it would be cheaper than buying in the quantities I currently do, and it would completely above board. No one should equate people that simply can't or won't dump thousands of dollars into sub only releases with people that only watch fansubs.

Toradora being a bit of an exception (since it's a top contemporary show in its genre), I don't need to own most shows. Unless a show is artistically brilliant, or gifted with an original story, I'm perfectly content with thinking of it as consumable entertainment in the vein of anything that can be watched on TV. As such, I'm willing to watch any and all shows that fall short of the "must own" bar as a legal, sub-only stream. As a long time viewer of anime, day-of legal streams are kind of my version of nerd Valhalla, but we aren't quite there yet, with only the most popular shows getting that kind of treatment.

Some people seem tired of the dubs vs subs debate, but I think they are looking at this wrong. For years, dubs have been a given. The subtitle only people were happy, and the dub only people were happy. Now one side is getting completely cut out for some releases, and their complaint is somehow annoying? That doesn't make any sense to me. This isn't a debate about which one is better...this is one about why dubs should be a requisite (unless they want to drop the price, but that is my addition to the argument, and others would disagree, while demanding dubs or no sale)
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Mistypearl



Joined: 03 Oct 2008
Posts: 517
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:21 pm Reply with quote
I've watched Toradora before and for some reason decided to finish it, but I don't really see why so much praise. I guess it is different in a way, but I found it to be really boring and just not that entertaining. (though it was entertaining to finish I suppose) Could someone explain to me what they like about it? Maybe it's just my personal choice, but I never understood why it was so popular, thanks Smile The reason why I'm asking is just I feel I'm not seeing something that I should be seeing, you know?
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Almaz



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 134
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:21 pm Reply with quote
Jedi Master makes a good point. It is best to mind one's finances everyday. Despite this, NISA KNOWS FANS WANT DUBS. I would like to have dubs. They will read this forum and decide later if the market is right for it. It is their financial duty too. They might not even put out dubs. They opted for this due to money concerns. Is it WORTH GAMBLING the extra money for a dub to find out if a fan really will put their money where their mouth is? Like Jedi Master said, he has a list of other stuff he wants. Other people have the same issue of budget/shows to buy. Does NISA need to gamble on that? As of the quality of the shows, has anyone other than ANN seen NISA's release yet? Let's stop the judgment until the disks come out please.

@Mistypearl I do not know what shows are your preference. Some people like the chemistry of the characters within the romantic comedy setting. It might not be your cup of tea. Not everyone likes the same thing. FLCL is another show that has many fans. To some people, the shows comes off as "what the deuce?!?"
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bayoab



Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 831
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:39 pm Reply with quote
captainbanana wrote:
My comparison is lacking a bit certainly, but why are we talking about MSRP now?

When you compare the releases themselves, you always compare based on MSRP, never on the available price. There are so many shenanigans involved in the non-MSRP price that it's never a fair comparison.

Quote:
I'm sure Ouran's half season sets went for much less on Amazon when they debuted.
The only reason they went for less is NISA has a lower standard discount than other companies. (20 vs 25% @ TRSI) The reason for this is that they don't want their RQ store to be undercut.

Quote:
I'm sure a better comparison could be found, of a brand new show that is the same price (for a full series) as toradora is for half, but I can't think of one off the top of my head.

How about comparing it to Ghost Hound?

Quote:
Since everyone that would be buying a special edition release has probably already seen the show anyway, what difference does it make if there is a bit of a wait until the cheaper boxed set? We all know it is inevitable.

Are we sure a boxset is coming? Yea, it's anime but it is also NISA who never releases two editions.
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neocloud9



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 1178
Location: Atlanta, GA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:49 pm Reply with quote
Toradora was a fantastic show, I just can't wait for my pre-order to arrive! Very Happy
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captainbanana



Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 191
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:01 pm Reply with quote
Mistypearl wrote:
I've watched Toradora before and for some reason decided to finish it, but I don't really see why so much praise. I guess it is different in a way, but I found it to be really boring and just not that entertaining. (though it was entertaining to finish I suppose) Could someone explain to me what they like about it? Maybe it's just my personal choice, but I never understood why it was so popular, thanks Smile The reason why I'm asking is just I feel I'm not seeing something that I should be seeing, you know?


Whenever I praise the show, I praise it as a contemporary standout in its genre. The reason for this is because I don't think it really breaks outside of its genre, or does anything that hasn't been done in the genre before. It's just a really well executed romantic comedy with most of the romantic comedy tropes, and a cast that is a bit more likable than those found in similar genre shows. I agree with some others that the melodrama gets to be a little too much, and it becomes less and less realistic as the show goes on, but it's still better than most of the garbage unloaded into the romantic comedy genre (into which I'd group some harem shows, and some moe shows, if the plot revolves around a romance and comedy). Is the show Akira? No. Is it Perfect Blue? Absolutely not, but it's really constrained by the confines of needing to derive laughs from the interaction of characters that just might love each other but also might love other people, etc (which has been done to death)

/wall of text

@bayoab - I would argue that those shenanigans don't really matter to the consumer. A low price is a low price at the end of the day, no matter how screwed over the distributor gets by the process.

The comparison to Ghost Hound is fair, but is Ghost Hound profitable? It only has four reviews on Amazon, which is usually a sign of how well or how poorly something is selling.

I'm not sure a box set is coming, but the American market has proven time and time again that boxed sets are all we really care about.
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