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bolfotha
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 18
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:57 pm
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Hayao Miyazaki's opinions on this matter aren't really a secret
but to paraphrase Ghibli, people should be allowed to create works based on their own preference
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vanfokerdumplestein
Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Posts: 10
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:03 pm
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To those who would try to portray opponents of this bill as child porn lovers: Attack the facts, not the person(s). You only reveal your own blatant weakness by resorting to nothing more than childish name-calling, but that is what most of those on the left do, because they have very little or no facts to fall back on, so they must rely on smearing the other side in order to compete.
This is the way I interpret the outcome of this bill's defeat:
Liberty: 1; Tyranny: 0
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jsyxx
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:47 pm
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vanfokerdumplestein wrote: | To those who would try to portray opponents of this bill as child porn lovers: Attack the facts, not the person(s). You only reveal your own blatant weakness by resorting to nothing more than childish name-calling, but that is what most of those on the left do, because they have very little or no facts to fall back on, so they must rely on smearing the other side in order to compete.
This is the way I interpret the outcome of this bill's defeat:
Liberty: 1; Tyranny: 0 |
WTF does this have to do with the left? Really? You say something like that and you are suggesting that "conservatives" would be the ones against this bill. Pure lunacy. If you want to talk about the left, lets mention the fact that if the right had their way print would still be edited for content like it was in the 1950's.
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W-General
Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 280
Location: Ithaca, NY, USA / Taichung, Taiwan
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:36 pm
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Glad to see that common sense prevailed.
Somewhere in her hideout, Agnes Chan is weeping and gnashing her teeth.
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Joketsu
Joined: 09 Mar 2010
Posts: 23
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:10 pm
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This has nothing to do with child porn or feminism. Shota and loli depict only drawings and fictional people, not real children, no harm is done to anyone, and almost everyone into it would never touch a real child. I am throughly against the sexualization and abuse of real children, I think it is one of the sickest things ever, but a work of fiction is just that: fiction. Having a fetish doesn't mean you're harmful. The more you know about them, the better you can understand yourself and others, their motives, and keep people safe and happy.
Censorship by any means is terrible. If I don't like the subject matter, then I don't have to look at it, and can tell others who don't like it to avoid it, but restricting it for all is one of the biggest crimes you can commit. Information and creativity should be free, should disturb others, and should provoke thought as well as entertain. If people are bothered, you know you're really doing it right. This is a victory I can celebrate on all levels.
As far as the feminism comment goes, are people still really blaming women as a whole for that one fringe conservative feminist group banning a very badly programmed/made porn game? (Seriously, playing it was laughable for how it looked and handled. I don't agree it should have been banned but haha it was a poorly made game. Nobody's missing much!) I'm a radical feminist, but only to the extent of the original feminists who rose up way back when, who just want equality, nothing more. I want equality for all. This is a form of freedom and equality, and I shall support it unto my death.
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LUNI_TUNZ
Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Posts: 809
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:28 am
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vanfokerdumplestein wrote: | To those who would try to portray opponents of this bill as child porn lovers: Attack the facts, not the person(s). You only reveal your own blatant weakness by resorting to nothing more than childish name-calling, but that is what most of those on the left do, because they have very little or no facts to fall back on, so they must rely on smearing the other side in order to compete.
This is the way I interpret the outcome of this bill's defeat:
Liberty: 1; Tyranny: 0 |
Isn't saying that one side smears the other side, because they're factless morons, in effect smearing the other side?
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LemonCookies
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Posts: 49
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:50 am
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Thank the gods of sanity and reason! (Btw, I'm pretty sure MlYAKO's a troll guys.)
Tomibiki wrote: | lol personally even I find this to be a topic that can't be touched, cause no matter how you argue it, you either look like a conservative jackass...or a sicko. Best to stay completely neutral and indifferent! |
Dude, being against the bill doesn't mean you have to be a fan of "sexualized youth" in anime, or hell, of anime at all! It just means you support freedom of expression.
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Tomibiki
Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 834
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:07 am
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LemonCookies wrote: | Thank the gods of sanity and reason! (Btw, I'm pretty sure MlYAKO's a troll guys.)
Tomibiki wrote: | lol personally even I find this to be a topic that can't be touched, cause no matter how you argue it, you either look like a conservative jackass...or a sicko. Best to stay completely neutral and indifferent! |
Dude, being against the bill doesn't mean you have to be a fan of "sexualized youth" in anime, or hell, of anime at all! It just means you support freedom of expression. |
Yeah but let's be real, a lot of people just aren't going to separate the subject matter from the principle and the people who are championing this bill (or were?) know that. If there was a way to say "Okay, you can eliminate imaginary child porn, but under specific parameters set by both the industry and the government, and you CAN'T take this any further without coming in with a completely new bill" then I think this'd be a little less problematic, but right now the fight is too black and white, when issue is such a huge grey area. S'all I'm sayin'
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2DOtaku
Joined: 24 Sep 2008
Posts: 122
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:20 am
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alp227 wrote: | Now let the Japanese government deal with more pressing issues such as unemployment and education. |
Hahahaha! No! The government must do everything in its power to protect the drawings! Do you have any idea just how many drawings are drawn every single day? Think of the paper. Think of the graphite. Think of the ink man! THINK OF THE INK!
Edit: Just to be clear, I do understand that, despite ultimately being nothing more than drawings from a purely material standpoint, manga, like any art form, does have the ability to stir feelings and emotions in people. I wouldn't read it if it didn't, and if all I saw in manga was lines on a page; but at the same time, when I close that manga and put it back on the shelf, though I may come away from it feeling as though I've learned something, or developed a new train of thought, or gained a new perspective, or even developed affection for its characters, I still maintain a clear distinction between fantasy and reality, and that's the distinction that has thankfully been made in this case which, quite frankly, should never have existed.
Edit 2: Also, yes, I know that my previous edit blatantly contradicts my username. I don't care.
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Muppe
Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Posts: 23
Location: Norway
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:52 am
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vanfokerdumplestein wrote: | To those who would try to portray opponents of this bill as child porn lovers: Attack the facts, not the person(s). You only reveal your own blatant weakness by resorting to nothing more than childish name-calling, but that is what most of those on the left do, because they have very little or no facts to fall back on, so they must rely on smearing the other side in order to compete.
This is the way I interpret the outcome of this bill's defeat:
Liberty: 1; Tyranny: 0 |
No, that is what every politician do... left or right. But let us leave the silly opinions where they belong, in the minds of those ruling us.
If this bill had been passed, every manga and anime with fanservice would have come under fire. And I wonder what would have been the next step? A Violence against noneexisting youths bill... that would have effected pretty much every manga and anime out there.
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Gilles Poitras
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 476
Location: Oakland California
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:40 am
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A few things to keep in mind:
1. This is not a "Japanese Government" bill, it is in the Tokyo legislature.
2. Erotic publications are already illegal to sell to children.
3. Underaged means under 18, so the law would include many works with teens. Ex Utena, Video Girl Ai, I"s, etc
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Joe Mello
Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 2251
Location: Online Terminal
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:42 am
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Slightly tangential, but I only counted 126 people amongst 6 parties, not 127. Was someone not mentioned or is my math wrong?
The reason feminists come up (the bad kind, not the good kind; there is a difference) is because some were very supportive of the bill.
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Cryssoberyl
Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 237
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:02 pm
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All true Utena adherents know the value in artistic expressions of the many forms of human sexuality, and you can believe that somewhere, Mad King Ikuhara is pleased with this outcome.
(This is how you do justice to an Utena avatar.)
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 3498
Location: IN your nightmares
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Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:28 am
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The feminist criticism is justified. On the website of one internationally recognized organization they actually claimed responsibility and support for the cry out against the RapePlay game. The actual media coverage of the story, in fact pointed out that the Japanese government was being lobbied by various human rights organizations overseas. So there's no denying activists from N.A. and Europe are pushing the issue. Sure the game content something that many find reprehensible but the misdirection of the use of media to propel a cause that only stirs up xenophobic ignorance is gravely unacceptable.
Anyway I am ecstatic about the defeat of the bill. And no, opponents of the bill should not be accused of being pedophiles themselves. Opposition to it simply champions the cause of ensuring freedom in art and human expression.
The logic behind this bill made as much sense as forcing gun manufacturers to place a stamp on all guns that says the following "do not use to commit a crime"
Actual offenders of child violence do not care either way of this bill getting passed, it would not concern them one bit.
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enurtsol
Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14746
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Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:32 am
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Besides, ya can't legislate morality. If one wants to help Japanese females over there, gotta change the mindset of treating women and girls like 2nd class objects. Then artists would do it on their own volition, not because it's law.
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