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ANNCast - Vowlesemort Lives!


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tmsidr



Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 26
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:23 pm Reply with quote
I can totally sign your standpoint on piracy.

And listening to Blümchen is really something that in Germany nobody would officially admit to like anymore and was also very trashy when it came out. I didn't know that her stuff was also known in the US. Some of her songs were even cover versions of older German stuff from the beginning of the eigthies (Neue Deutsche Welle songs). However in the mid-nighties a lot of stuff sounded very similar to Blümchen and Captain Jack and E-Rotic were also successful and their songs are even part of older DDR games Shocked so it was not a good time for the music scene here^^;
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wandering-dreamer



Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 1733
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:40 pm Reply with quote
Which anime was Vowles in, did it get mentioned? I agree, that has to be the best gift swag either.
I recall that once, at my first con too, yaoi paddles weren't banned yet so I ran into a girl in an elevator with one and I asked if the paddles were to make people start yaoi-ing or stop and she looked rather startled and like she had never thought of it like that. It had been a serious question too, I was young and figured this was my best chance to find out.
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jvowles
Otakon Representative


Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 219
Location: Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:02 pm Reply with quote
wandering-dreamer wrote:
Which anime was Vowles in, did it get mentioned? I agree, that has to be the best gift swag either.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BatVZKELvF0

I appear near the end, as captain of the NOT THE ENTERPRISE FOR COPYRIGHT REASONS starship. Smile
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jvowles
Otakon Representative


Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 219
Location: Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:19 pm Reply with quote
MeggieMay wrote:
Ok, I have all the vinyl records Vowles mentioned (and possibly the photo cover for the I Love Rock in Roll 45 - I'm not certain where I stored my 45 covers but the 45's are in a 45 keeper, along with all my vinyl records (and probably a few of my sisters) out in the shop), plus the Genesis of the Daleks and Star Trekking as a single, both on 33 1/3, so do I win a prize for geeky? Razz Now, only goodness knows if any of them are still playable but I just couldn't throw them out even though I've not had a working record player in years. FYI, I Love Rock and Roll came out when I was Sophomore in HS, so I have wonder just how little Jim was when got that one?


The album came out in 1982, so that's probably about when I got it. Summer of 1982 I would have been 12, and I think I got it with birthday money, so that kinda makes sense.

Today I listened to various songs from:
Joan Jett (randomly came up on an 80s compilation album)
Gaelic Storm
Les Miserables Complete Symphonic
Suzanne Vega
Duran Duran
Depeche Mode
TMR
Schoolhouse Rock (cover album various artists)
Yoshida Brothers
Rick Springfield (dang 80s comp)
Lightning Seeds
Billie Holiday
DJ Shadow (miscellaneous techno crap)
Paul Oakenshield
PowerPuff Girls Theme Song
Sarah Mclaughlan
B-52s
Passion - Music from Last Temptation of Christ (Peter Gabriel)
Indigo Girls
Robyn Hitchcock
Crowded House


...I've really gott get the rest loaded in.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:22 pm Reply with quote
egoist wrote:
CG-LOVER wrote:
Patience is a virtue. That's a valuable lesson.

A virtue not compatible with the market. But - narrowing it down to the anime industry - you do realize what would happen if everyone possessed this virtue and awaited for the box set releases of shows they are willing to buy, correct?


Everyone Internationally or Everyone in Japan?

I don't think Nozomi would mind. I always wait for the box set releases of Maria-sama ga Miteru, f'rinstance.
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MeggieMay



Joined: 08 Jun 2004
Posts: 607
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:41 pm Reply with quote
Interesting play list Smile . My iTouch is currently loaded with mostly Country and Western music at the moment (stuff playing on the radio) and Japanese OST type stuff. I've been on a C&W music kick most of the 2000s, though my overall collection is all over the place (everything from Clannad to Heavy Metal to Barry Manilow - my fall back artist when I've really out of anything else I want to listen to, to 1940s novelty music and Broadway musicals (blame my mom for this stuff Wink ), to whatever and everything (san Rap - I don't think I have much, if any Rap in my collection).

Still, what I've find myself using my iTouch for the most is listening to Podcasts in the car (good for long drives, which I do a lot since I live in a rural area). It's a lot more interesting than most talk radio and is a good alternative to listening to music when I get tired of that (I tend to listen to the radio a lot, to and from work, because it's not very time efficient to use the iTouch for that) Smile .
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kikiyo2



Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Posts: 36
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:57 pm Reply with quote
Its interesting that Zack talks about "its all about the artist getting paid" as his reason for being against piracy. Sorry but how much of that chunk of money you spend gets sent to the artist? Next to nothing? Anything? It all goes to these giant companies that rape the artists for their ideas and thats why I refuse to support this system. There needs to be a way to directly support the artists themselves and thats never going to happen with this evil in the way.

So yea I still do think Justin and Zack are hypocrites. They're still a part of the system.
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jsevakis
Former ANN Editor in Chief


Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 1684
Location: Los Angeles, CA
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:10 am Reply with quote
kikiyo2 wrote:
Its interesting that Zack talks about "its all about the artist getting paid" as his reason for being against piracy. Sorry but how much of that chunk of money you spend gets sent to the artist? Next to nothing? Anything? It all goes to these giant companies that rape the artists for their ideas and thats why I refuse to support this system. There needs to be a way to directly support the artists themselves and thats never going to happen with this evil in the way.

So yea I still do think Justin and Zack are hypocrites. They're still a part of the system.


Ah, yes, the whole "system is corrupt, I am a rebel" argument. It's very "I am 17 years old."

The artists are voluntarily working for and in the system. The system pays them, and without it they are unemployed. As the companies in the system has suffered, they've had to curb production and not hire back artists for new projects. The artists themselves have expressed support for the system, on the record, many times. There are a few people producing content outside the system, but for the most part it's either eccentric garbage Flash or 3D CG, with a few notable exceptions. If they're any good, they get fansubbed and pirated anyway, just like the stuff produced by the system.

Unlike music, filmed entertainment requires a staff of hundreds to make, so there's really no way of producing it without a system of some sort. So you can rail against it all you want, and sure, it's definitely not perfect, sometimes even abusive. But ultimately the artists are part of the system you find so offensive, and not patronizing it is quite literally forcing them out of a job.

As for these monolithic companies you think exist, I've visited them. They're not that big. Bandai Visual has not even 100 people. Showgate, D-Rights, Gonzo and the smaller studios have less than 50. These are not big companies, these are little scrappy holding companies, their management works long into the night to try to keep the lights on (especially lately), and there's really not a whole lot of waste or bureaucracy on the animation end. (Some of the bigger publishing companies are a different story.) So your notion of these giant rapist companies getting rich off the indentured servitude of the artists is pretty much utterly false.

But hey, you're a young soul rebel.
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shamisen the great



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 658
Location: Oregon, USA
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:48 am Reply with quote
DmonHiro wrote:
There's gotta be someone who says this every single time, so this time, it will be me: PIRACY IS NOT STEALING, IT'S COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT SO STOP USING THE WORD "STEALING".


And everytime someone says this I want to point out that both "stealing" and "copyright infringement" are illegal.

My opinions on piracy seem to be similar to Zac's. I view it as an option of last resort. Even then I don't feel proud of it. What bothers me the most is when people get this sense of entitlement and act like people are stupid for actually paying for anime. Watch fansubs if you want, but don't brag about it. If this view makes me a hypocrite, so be it. I've been called worse
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egoist



Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 7762
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:03 am Reply with quote
agila61 wrote:
Everyone Internationally or Everyone in Japan?

Both. Impatient fans make up for an indispensable part of the chunk. Or, say, if you are going to wait for a box set release, then why not wait another year till the price goes down? Just have to wonder what would happen in that case.


shamisen the great wrote:
And everytime someone says this I want to point out that both "stealing" and "copyright infringement" are illegal.

Hmm, yes. I'd make sure to read the entire law and keep up with the newest implementations in case that's so worrisome. I mean, over here it's a crime to shout at eggs if you're told not to by an authority. What if I didn't know that and shouted near eggs when told not to? I'd be a criminal. And since I'd become a criminal, I'm no different than the other guy who raped and then killed a woman.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:37 am Reply with quote
egoist wrote:
agila61 wrote:
Everyone Internationally or Everyone in Japan?

Both. Impatient fans make up for an indispensable part of the chunk. Or, say, if you are going to wait for a box set release, then why not wait another year till the price goes down? Just have to wonder what would happen in that case.


shamisen the great wrote:
And everytime someone says this I want to point out that both "stealing" and "copyright infringement" are illegal.

Hmm, yes. I'd make sure to read the entire law and keep up with the newest implementations in case that's so worrisome. I mean, over here it's a crime to shout at eggs if you're told not to by an authority. What if I didn't know that and shouted near eggs when told not to? I'd be a criminal. And since I'd become a criminal, I'm no different than the other guy who raped and then killed a woman.


All of your arguments are crazy slippery slope fallacies that only make sense in fantasyland.

"Well if downloading a movie is a crime, then does that make me a rapist?!"

No it doesn't if you're thinking about any of this with any sense at all and not being crazy sensationalist about it.

That's a big part of the problem here - everyone likes to argue in hypotheticals rather than simply looking at what's happening and offering solutions based in reality.
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egoist



Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 7762
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:04 am Reply with quote
Except that the latter part was sarcasm. Saying that copyright infringement and stealing are both the same illegal action in an argument like this is about the same as one saying that both are the same, with the same consequences.
My point was that before what he said, I, who shouted at the eggs, would be labelled in the same manner as someone who did a crime such as murder, and that to him the difference doesn't matter.

Quote:
All of your arguments are crazy slippery slope fallacies that only make sense in fantasyland.

Okay. My realistic solutions and actions are right in the previous page in case you even bothered reading it before. Or are you accusing even that of being unrealistic? If that's the case, I suppose I really am living on fantasyland.
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DmonHiro





PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:53 am Reply with quote
shamisen the great wrote:
And everytime someone says this I want to point out that both "stealing" and "copyright infringement" are illegal.


I know that. Everyone knows that. But just because they are both illegal, does not mean they are interchangeable. You call raping "rape" and assaulting "assault". So call copyright infringement "copyright infringement". I know calling it "stealing" makes it sound way more dramatic, but it's incorrect, and it makes whoever uses it sound stupid.
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shamisen the great



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 658
Location: Oregon, USA
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:31 am Reply with quote
Ok everybody, I get it. I was a little too glib in comparing stealing and copyright infringement. I was just trying to point out that neither action is something to celebrate.
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PetrifiedJello



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 3782
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:48 am Reply with quote
jsevakis wrote:
So your notion of these giant rapist companies getting rich off the indentured servitude of the artists is pretty much utterly false.

You know, I may be inclined to agree with this statement, but there's this this little graph which seems to tell a different story.

If this graph represents North America only, it can only be surmised the numbers only grow from there.

I keep linking this graph for a particular reason, and that's for the revenues made by VHS/DVD. If we look closely, there's some pretty interesting things to extract from it.

The first is the most telling and it states despite the increased numbers of imported titles, the units stay relatively stagnant. Now, in 2010, with less titles imported, it's assumed these numbers will drop, not increase. An updated chart will be needed to confirm this assumption or prove it wrong.

The second is the average return between 2001 and 2007, which is $365 million per year.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't these studios have little to pay their artists? This is why people see distributors as the "evil empire".

To this day, we're still reading stories of underpaid artists working hours which borderline slavery. Okay, I'm facetious here, but these numbers indicate there is a huge problem between the artists and those who distribute their works.

I'm not saying these distributors are evil empires, but everyone knows it's the distributors who get the cream of the returns, not the artists. Hell, even artists themselves state this.

Therefore, some of us can clearly assess the true issue and it's definitely not in favor of the artist. While these distributors are losing money and are having a harder time paying currently signed contracts as well as hiring new talent, the fact remains this is the roadblock to change. These companies are adamant about keeping the existing model, and most are only changing due to market forces, not because they want to.

I'm going on the record to say I support the industry through purchases to fulfill my greed of wanting titles. But don't think for one second I believe my purchases are helping the artists. They're not. They're helping the distributors who don't really share well.

I despise this system, but I also know it's the only one viable for many at this time. Trying to "go it alone" isn't easy, inexpensive, nor guaranteed to generate revenues.

Until a better system comes along, there really are no winners here except for the consumer who can obtain content with a mere Google search. It may not be fair, but this is what happens when markets change. There are always losers until the situation corrects itself.

Someone also believes there's something very wrong with the industry, because he wrote an open letter to the industry and he's part of this very industry.

Yet 3 years later, nothing's changed. Some will argue there is change because we're seeing more streamed series, but again, that's not change. That's the market forcing a gun to the head of distributors who had no choice in order to compete and generate revenues.

Zac stated many use hypothetical remarks without offering solutions. Pretty difficult to offer solutions when the companies controlling anime refuse to listen, no matter how implausible the solution and by whom offered the solution.

But I'll offer my solutions:
-Stop going after "pirate" sites. Use the money more effectively. "Clearing the weeds" is pointless, so innovate, not litigate.

-Get rid of region code restrictions. There are 6 billion people on this planet and that is the market to go after. Segregating this market is foolish, stupid, and will lead to those weeds popping up all over again.

-DRM stands for Don't Restrict Me, not Digital Rights Management. Learn from this or suffer the consequences.

-With every damn stream, have two links: "Contribute to the Creators" and "Interested in owning this series?". I can't fathom why this suggestive selling approach has yet to be used. Place them on every episode of every stream. Advertise the need, damn it! Yes, even ANN should be doing this.

-Move towards a "print on demand" system, both in books and with DVDs.

-Offer a download of the episode/manga at no cost. It's out there anyway, so get over trying to charge people for an infinite good. That's what the buttons are for.

-Stop trying to capitalize on everyone, and instead, focus on those who are willing to whip open their wallet. Link to other goods associated with the content they're viewing. Again, the easiest of things to do is always the most overlooked.

-Create a rewards program for content distributed in hard copy form. These points can be used to acquire free stuff. People love free, if not figured out, so reward them because they're buying.

-Combine resources and quit being competitive. This is the digital age and no one cares what company delivers the product! Pool the content in one resource, not many. Fail to do this, and the weeds will win again.

-Sites need to work together with retailers since they are the first line in getting product to customer. Special deals could be a start, such as $3 off this title if purchased through a website. Something is better than the current situation. People always forget about the retailers.

-Finally, the biggest one yet: Distributors need to listen to the paying customer. Failing to do so will result in these paying customers turning into those who the distributors can't capitalize on now. The worst mistake any company can do is alienate their customers, and with anime, even one loss is a big one. Paying customers are the best ads around and if they're happy, this will lead to more being happy and turning into customers.

Those are only a few of my solutions, but I seriously doubt I'll see a single one of them used.
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