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NEWS: Translated Manga Scan Aggregator Removes 350+ Series


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Farix



Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 152
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:49 pm Reply with quote
SD Maruko-kun wrote:
Why don't the mangaka, anime studio's and other creative generators of "data" set up some kind of micropayment donations system,
so they can get some euros/dollars/yens as donation from people when something isn't licenced in the western world or if someone
can't/won't spend a few dozen euros/dollars on a manga/anime series, but does want to spend a bit to support their favorite artist?


Because the manga creator has a right to control his or her copyright and earn money from every copy of his or her work. That is not something that can be replaced by a "tip jar". For one, the majority of those who read scanlations won't donate any money. But also, being a fan and supporting the manga creator should be reduced to a charity case.
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Unknown Memory



Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 155
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:04 am Reply with quote
erilot wrote:
What other sites have been shut down?


So, the list stands as it is...

1) Manga Helpers
2) Manga Fox - well, removing lots and lots of titles. I would prefer to see this site shut down for good since it carries too many viruses and was one of the few online sites that was hosting "licensed" manga. (They should actually be filed a lawsuit for this. =_=)

Mod Note: there is no reason to just list a directory of pirate sites.

My response: ^ Oh fine oh fine.. It's not meant to be a directory though. (The directory is already on Google..) I was just listing my opinions more or less on some of them. Can't I do that? *sighs* Crying or Very sad

Anyways, my main point was edited out, so repeating it now... Which is, the continuous wish to see a legal online reader owned/runned by the actual legal publishers. (And down with Naruto Fan/Manga Hut!)
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Kikaioh



Joined: 01 Jun 2009
Posts: 1203
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:39 am Reply with quote
Paploo wrote:
Gonna go buy some comics/manga this weekend to celebrate [got Okimono Kimono and the Spawn manga Vol.2 this week]


It's funny you should say that, with all the news recently about the industry cracking down on these scanlation sites, I felt really driven to buy a new volume of manga today (which I did), to show my support. Smile


Last edited by Kikaioh on Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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DTJB



Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Posts: 666
Location: Dubuque, IA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:01 am Reply with quote
I'll admit, a few of the scans I read on that site were titles that were officially liscensed, (no, I do BUY manga as well) but this isn't something I'm going to lose sleep over. Most scans I read anyway are either titles that never got picked up, liscensed manga that never got renewed in the U.S., or manga that received s****y or incomplete translations.
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Drunk_Samurai



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 133
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:41 am Reply with quote
cupguin wrote:
Drunk_Samurai wrote:

Regardless of what you think you don't need to buy something in order to be a fan of something.



*sighs* When I was young I had to walk two miles up hill, both ways, to download my manga and even then it was still dial-up. That and I had figured out that fans are people that want more of something and the only way to get more of something is to pay the people who make that something. If all fans turned into leechers tomorrow then there would be no market and the people who make manga (there's quite a few of them involved in those manga things people seem to think are worthless) would go do something else because they no longer have a job. What with everyone ending up on the street with no money for their families if they all decide to take up making manga as a hobby instead of as their job. At the moment real fans are forced to support the leechers.

Enough of ranting though. If every win by the coalition makes me this happy I'm going to end up sending them a muffin basket or get them a subscription to fruit of the month or something. Maybe Hallmark could make a "Thanks for that, we hate those sites too" line of cards.


There's no difference between somebody who only reads scanlations and somebody who buys products. They are still both "real" fans.

farix wrote:
Drunk_Samurai wrote:
They really won't. If one site gets shut down then 3 others will replace it. Or else everybody will go through IRC and IM.

I personally doubt that if one site goes down, other sites will pop up in it's place. Setting up a website with such a large collections as MangaFox and OneManga is not easy, requires quite a bit of know-how, and needs constant updating. And if your are even successful, you only make yourself the next target.

As for going to IRC or IM, only a small percentage will. And neither of these methods are easy to use. The object here isn't to completely stamp out piracy, but to make it more of a bother to access.

Drunk_Samurai wrote:
Regardless of what you think you don't need to buy something in order to be a fan of something.

In the same vain. If you are a fan, you would also want to support the creators so that they will continue producing the manga series that you are a fan of.


They're still going to pop up just like all the torrent sites that replaced other sites.

Since when are IM programs hard to use? Only IRC is the hardest out of what I mentioned and it's not even that hard to use.

You're still a fan regardless if you buy the product or not.
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Razgul



Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:15 am Reply with quote
The best thing to do is, learn Japanese then buy the manga from Japan, so you can get the latest issue!
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Farix



Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 152
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:22 am Reply with quote
Drunk_Samurai wrote:
They're still going to pop up just like all the torrent sites that replaced other sites.


It's easy to replace a single torrent so long as you have a well used torrent tracker. But replacing the torrent tracker itself is a much greater hassle. Remember that the JDCA is targeting the the equivalent of the torrent trackers because they are not easy to replace.

Drunk_Samurai wrote:
Since when are IM programs hard to use?

1) I have to know the person who has a copy of the file and have them on your contact list. 2) The transfer must be initiated by the one who has the file. 3) There is absolutely no automation.

Drunk_Samurai wrote:
Only IRC is the hardest out of what I mentioned and it's not even that hard to use.

1) You have to know were the IRC channel is for a particular scanlation. 2) You have to sign up for the IRC network that the IRC channel is on. 3) You have to know the rather cryptic commands to search for and download the scanlations. 4) There is no large depositories of scanlations.

Drunk_Samurai wrote:
You're still a fan regardless if you buy the product or not.

I would actually go as far to say that you are not really a fan if all you do is read scanlations or watch fansubs. Fans have a collectors mentality and will want to spend their money to create and expand their collections. And by spending their money to collect the series they like, they contribute in supporting that series.

This is why I find all the claims that the JDCA will alienate fans by cracking down in scanlations and scanlation aggregators as completely preposterous. The only ones that the JDCA will alienate are the leachers who are not contributing anything in the first place. The JDCA has nothing to loose by running these people out.
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Looped



Joined: 09 Jun 2010
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:51 am Reply with quote
It bothered me alot that some mangas that are liscenced and have over 100,000 readers on mangafox/onemanga etc have bad sale ratings.
And I don't get why many leechers brag about downloading, it's EASIER to find bootlegs than the real things. The same thing goes for videogames/music/movies.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:53 am Reply with quote
Drunk_Samurai wrote:
There's no difference between somebody who only reads scanlations and somebody who buys products. They are still both "real" fans.


You can certainly argue the second point if you wish ... it becomes an argument over what real people get the tag "fan" attached, and that is one of those famous "arguments over semantics" that ultimately goes nowhere.

But you cannot possibly claim there "is no difference" between those who support the creators of the art and those who do not because that is a difference. There is a real world difference in the incomes of the people who make the works.

Supporting fans try to support the people who make the works that they are fans of.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:00 am Reply with quote
Drunk_Samurai wrote:
Since when are IM programs hard to use


You cannot argue with the numbers. The rank that is higher then 400 belongs to a site that directly hosts images of manga pages, not to a torrent site.

Torrent is certainly not incredibly hard to use, but its proven to be enough of a hurdle to channel the large majority of those getting bootleg manga to the direct manga viewing site.
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Drunk_Samurai



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 133
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:59 pm Reply with quote
farix wrote:
Drunk_Samurai wrote:
They're still going to pop up just like all the torrent sites that replaced other sites.


It's easy to replace a single torrent so long as you have a well used torrent tracker. But replacing the torrent tracker itself is a much greater hassle. Remember that the JDCA is targeting the the equivalent of the torrent trackers because they are not easy to replace.

Drunk_Samurai wrote:
Since when are IM programs hard to use?

1) I have to know the person who has a copy of the file and have them on your contact list. 2) The transfer must be initiated by the one who has the file. 3) There is absolutely no automation.

Drunk_Samurai wrote:
Only IRC is the hardest out of what I mentioned and it's not even that hard to use.

1) You have to know were the IRC channel is for a particular scanlation. 2) You have to sign up for the IRC network that the IRC channel is on. 3) You have to know the rather cryptic commands to search for and download the scanlations. 4) There is no large depositories of scanlations.

Drunk_Samurai wrote:
You're still a fan regardless if you buy the product or not.

I would actually go as far to say that you are not really a fan if all you do is read scanlations or watch fansubs. Fans have a collectors mentality and will want to spend their money to create and expand their collections. And by spending their money to collect the series they like, they contribute in supporting that series.

This is why I find all the claims that the JDCA will alienate fans by cracking down in scanlations and scanlation aggregators as completely preposterous. The only ones that the JDCA will alienate are the leachers who are not contributing anything in the first place. The JDCA has nothing to loose by running these people out.


1) I know that. They will still popup. Plus you can't always shut them down if the country the servers are in have no copyright laws or just don't care. Same thing with how some fansub groups ignore C & D's.

2) You don't have to actually know the person. It could be somebody who downloaded a series and decided to help out somebody asking for it. I use to do that when I use to pirate ISO's like 6 years ago. The person who has the the file would send it if they are trying to help somebody else. Have you even used messaging programs? Every single one of them has an autosend option. Of course this is dangerous since the person could have a virus.

3) There are datebases for that kind of thing actually. You don't always have to sign up either. Many channels have instructions in there or the OP's help people. There might be. I haven't been on IRC in months but I bet I could easily find a channel.

4) They would still be fans.

"A fan , aficionado or supporter is someone who has an intense, occasionally overwhelming liking of a sporting club, person, group of persons, company, product, work of art, idea, or trend. Fans of a particular thing constitute its fanbase or fandom. They may start a fan club, hold fan conventions, create fanzines, write fan mail, or engage in similar activities. " Nowhere does it say you have to buy the product in order to be a fan.
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Sheleigha



Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 1571
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:45 pm Reply with quote
(Ignore this, I got my topics mixed up since there is so many of them at the moment :/)
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egoist



Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 7762
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:07 pm Reply with quote
All this commotion made me check out two of the most famous aggregators. Sincerely, how can people read that crap? I'm not a big fan of manga, but I'd definitely not start reading this way even if it's free. Oh yes, I was trying to check Code Geass: Queen to see whether it's worth buying when it comes out (7th of July), just to find out that it'll be released at the same date everywhere. Attempt #1: failed.
Oh, well, I suppose I'm the type who prefers to stick to paper when it comes to books, and to TV when it comes to videos (no PSP or whatever).
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:42 pm Reply with quote
Drunk_Samurai wrote:
"A fan , aficionado or supporter is someone who has an intense, occasionally overwhelming liking of a sporting club, person, group of persons, company, product, work of art, idea, or trend. Fans of a particular thing constitute its fanbase or fandom. They may start a fan club, hold fan conventions, create fanzines, write fan mail, or engage in similar activities. " Nowhere does it say you have to buy the product in order to be a fan.


It does say that you have to have an overwhelming liking of. The argument over the semantics is how overwhelming that liking could possibly be if you do not feel the normal human feeling of supporting the people who do things that you like.

That is like claiming to be a "fan" of a band and never throwing any money the band's way, whether cover charge or buying their recording's or concerts and t-shirts or whatever. Lots of musical fans would say that people that claim to be fans but don't throw any money the way of the group are just posers.

But whether or not its possible to be a fan of art and not want to support the artist ... whatever.

In any event, fans who want to support the artists definitely do exist. So call us "supporting fans".

Whether the "fans" who are unwilling to spend any money that can get to the artists are "real fans" or not is entirely beside the point when it comes time for the artist to pay this month's rent or buy this month's groceries. On the other hand, making it possible for supporting fans to support their favorite artists does, in fact, help pay the rent and buy the groceries.
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Navak



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 88
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:18 pm Reply with quote
agila61 wrote:
Drunk_Samurai wrote:
"A fan , aficionado or supporter is someone who has an intense, occasionally overwhelming liking of a sporting club, person, group of persons, company, product, work of art, idea, or trend. Fans of a particular thing constitute its fanbase or fandom. They may start a fan club, hold fan conventions, create fanzines, write fan mail, or engage in similar activities. " Nowhere does it say you have to buy the product in order to be a fan.


It does say that you have to have an overwhelming liking of. The argument over the semantics is how overwhelming that liking could possibly be if you do not feel the normal human feeling of supporting the people who do things that you like.

That is like claiming to be a "fan" of a band and never throwing any money the band's way, whether cover charge or buying their recording's or concerts and t-shirts or whatever. Lots of musical fans would say that people that claim to be fans but don't throw any money the way of the group are just posers.

But whether or not its possible to be a fan of art and not want to support the artist ... whatever.

In any event, fans who want to support the artists definitely do exist. So call us "supporting fans".

Whether the "fans" who are unwilling to spend any money that can get to the artists are "real fans" or not is entirely beside the point when it comes time for the artist to pay this month's rent or buy this month's groceries. On the other hand, making it possible for supporting fans to support their favorite artists does, in fact, help pay the rent and buy the groceries.


Ah yes. On to dehumanization. The circle of is now complete.

How much do manga/manhwa artists make from the translations sold?

The whole supporting the artist angle seems sort of like, "Well, I'm a good person I send "starving kids" 25 cents a day." or something.

It seems to me it's not so much about supporting the artist as it is about owning an item (getting a product). The "supporting" argument is just ancillary; a way in which one may defend that expense.

I don't see anything wrong with that mentality, wanting the product, but the idea that the "people with normal emotions" want to support the artists, which is why they buy goods, seems fairly ridiculous. Why wouldn't such people just send money directly? Is the overwhelming liking defeated by such a low hurdle as finding an appropriate destination for said gifts if said artist does accept such items?

Would the "normal people" care about the artists if said people were not interested in the product of said artists?
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