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NEWS: Bandai Entertainment Adds K-On! TV Anime Series


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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 7446
Location: Wales
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:45 am Reply with quote
chocoburger wrote:
Great. Thanks to unnecessary dub hating, we who like dubs are losing our preference for watching anime.

"Dub hating" has nothing to do with it since hybrid releases do sell better. Economics does.

Quote:
Subs actually aren't much better than dubs at "preserving" a show, so to speak. All they preserve is the video footage, but sacrifices and changes are made for the sake of translation.

With soft subtitles neither affect the video footage so..???
"Sacrifices and changes" are made to the sub and dub script because they are a translation. More "sacrifices" are made to a dub script due to the need to match flaps.
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Rin Tohsaka



Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 39
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:45 pm Reply with quote
I will definitely buy this if it has dual audio.
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chocoburger



Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 20
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:53 am Reply with quote
Shiroi Hane wrote:
chocoburger wrote:
Great. Thanks to unnecessary dub hating, we who like dubs are losing our preference for watching anime.

"Dub hating" has nothing to do with it since hybrid releases do sell better. Economics does.

Ummm...just because I want a dub doesn't mean I don't want a sub. I do want a hybrid release. The problem is Bandai has been threatening to release anime subbed only. Why? Because dub haters refuse to buy dubs, cling to fansubs, etc. Companies are starting to believe most anime fans prefer subs, which is not necessarily the case. Plus, if anime because subbed-only in America...well, I'm not going there again.

Shiroi Hane wrote:
chocoburger wrote:
Subs actually aren't much better than dubs at "preserving" a show, so to speak. All they preserve is the video footage, but sacrifices and changes are made for the sake of translation.

With soft subtitles neither affect the video footage so..???
"Sacrifices and changes" are made to the sub and dub script because they are a translation. More "sacrifices" are made to a dub script due to the need to match flaps.

Okay, let me explain myself better because you obviously misunderstood me. By "preserving video footage," I was referring to cuts. Subs tend to retain all the original scenes, while dubs are known for having scenes cut, at least for broadcast. Direct-to-DVD dubs: not as often.
As far as sacrifices for translation, subs have their own version of mouth flaps: word space. I don't know the technical terms for all of this, but I'll do my best. Suppose the translation of a line is much longer than the line itself. The subbers have to do one of these:
- Condense (that is, summarize) the translation so that the viewers can read it quickly and still get the gist of the line
- Cut it into parts and show both parts quickly to fit it in the amount of time the character is talking
- Shrink the text to fit it into one part (bad idea)
- Leave it as is (which may cover too much of the screen) and hope the viewers are fast readers

Most likely, they'll pick the first or second choice. If they pick the first one, however, that could mean adapting the line to an English interpretation (like with idioms), taking out unimportant information, etc., hence "sacrifices for the sake of translation."

Another thing subs often lose: the characterization. It's easier to portray a character with a voice than it is to do so with words, particularly when you have a limited amount of space for those words. Subs tend to favor translation over characterization unless a character has an accent or an otherwise unique way of speaking. Dubs usually try to preserve both, but the translation may not always "perfect," or it may be a different line all together.

So, subs and dubs aren't very different.
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ZenErik



Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 392
Location: Boston
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:58 am Reply with quote
chocoburger wrote:
Another thing subs often lose: the characterization. It's easier to portray a character with a voice than it is to do so with words, particularly when you have a limited amount of space for those words. Subs tend to favor translation over characterization unless a character has an accent or an otherwise unique way of speaking. Dubs usually try to preserve both, but the translation may not always "perfect," or it may be a different line all together.

You're saying this as if we can't hear the Japanese voice when watching something subtitled. Sure, a lot of people don't understand much Japanese, but we can correlate the way we hear them speak with the subtitles, whether they are very literal or not, and draw our own conclusions. Everyone is different. However, I know that I do not just stare at the subtitles and not pay attention to the audio and video.
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hissatsu01



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 953
Location: NYC
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:13 am Reply with quote
chocoburger wrote:

Okay, let me explain myself better because you obviously misunderstood me. By "preserving video footage," I was referring to cuts. Subs tend to retain all the original scenes, while dubs are known for having scenes cut, at least for broadcast. Direct-to-DVD dubs: not as often.


What's it like in 1998?
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 7896
Location: IL
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:25 am Reply with quote
chocoburger wrote:
Shiroi Hane wrote:
chocoburger wrote:
Great. Thanks to unnecessary dub hating, we who like dubs are losing our preference for watching anime.

"Dub hating" has nothing to do with it since hybrid releases do sell better. Economics does.

Ummm...just because I want a dub doesn't mean I don't want a sub. I do want a hybrid release. The problem is Bandai has been threatening to release anime subbed only. Why? Because dub haters refuse to buy dubs, cling to fansubs, etc. Companies are starting to believe most anime fans prefer subs, which is not necessarily the case. Plus, if anime because subbed-only in America...well, I'm not going there again.

But this makes no sense. If "dub haters" (who I will re-term "people who prefer watching with Japanese audio and subtitles") never bought DVDs and only "cling to fansubs", then why would companies feel like it would be better to release it sub-only? Even if they save money by not producing an English dub, if nobody actually buys the release because they're all hoarding their fansubs instead, then that distributor is going to lose a good deal of money. Yet, companies like Nozomi and Section23 have not lost a lot of money (well, that we know of) and are still in business. One can only conclude that there are *gasp* actually people buying the sub-only releases. Because there are people who like the show, and not just the English voice cast.

Also, I'm curious why you don't mention dub fans who instead of buying the DVDs, opt to download the dual audio DVD rips instead? For instance, I just checked a popular torrent site and there are 150 people currently stealing DVD rips of FUNimation's Hell Girl, and that series was released 2 years ago!
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ZenErik



Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 392
Location: Boston
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:43 am Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
Also, I'm curious why you don't mention dub fans who instead of buying the DVDs, opt to download the dual audio DVD rips instead? For instance, I just checked a popular torrent site and there are 150 people currently stealing DVD rips of FUNimation's Hell Girl, and that series was released 2 years ago!

Oh, you mean the SAME Hell Girl with 26 episodes that now has a $30 MSRP and can be had for $15 - $20 new?

Guess it shows how much people value their glorified fandubs. Wink
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386sky



Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 208
Location: South Korea
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:46 am Reply with quote
You think they could have translated the opening credits, but when translating these lines:
D2_STATION wrote:
制作協力:オフィスていくおふ
制作協力:スタジオファンタジア
制作協力:スタジオフラッグ
制作協力:ムークアニメーション
制作協力:アートランド
制作協力:童夢


using Google Translate translates this to:
Google Translate wrote:
Production Assistance: Office Take Off
Production Cooperation: Studio Fantasia
Production Cooperation: Studio Flag
Co-production: Mook Animation
Production Assistance: Artland
Production Cooperation: DOME


The makers of the US DVD will now translate the opening credits and put them to the opening using an Times Bold font.
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egoist



Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 7762
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:52 am Reply with quote
"Dub haters" who use the existence of a dub as a pretext for not buying DVDs wouldn't buy it in any way (without dubs or not).

And no, I don't watch my anime dubbed, but I don't mind having it (and perhaps, maybe, even paying more for it) on my DVDs.
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ZenErik



Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 392
Location: Boston
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:01 am Reply with quote
egoist wrote:
"Dub haters" who use the existence of a dub as a pretext for not buying DVDs wouldn't buy it in any way (without dubs or not).

And no, I don't watch my anime dubbed, but I don't mind having it (and perhaps, maybe, even paying more for it) on my DVDs.

I don't mind having glorified fandub tracks either, but I generally watch my anime and foreign films subbed.

Admittedly, in the back of my mind, I would rather have no English dub so that the DVDs could be released more quickly, but those are just selfish thoughts. I am not one of those NEED-IT-NOW-OR-WILL-USE-THE-LACK-OF-AN-IMMEDIATE-RELEASE-TO-JUSTIFY-MY-PIRATING-AND-NEVER-BUYING types. Patience: some people learn it eventually.
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egoist



Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 7762
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:09 am Reply with quote
Yes, I've never understood how can they expect to use the lack of a lightning speed release as an excuse for not buying a DVD.
After all, if they don't want to wait, watch it illegally now and buy when it becomes available.
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386sky



Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 208
Location: South Korea
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:03 pm Reply with quote
When the ADV license for Angelic Layer was to be expired, Bandai America will also choose Angelic Layer again and release the Angelic Layer Musical Concert system software.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 7896
Location: IL
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:14 pm Reply with quote
What? Angelic Layer musical concert software?

That doesn't make any sense. Angelic Layer was about fighting dolls, not musical concerts.
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pasteloverdose



Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Posts: 20
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:32 pm Reply with quote
Great news. I seriously need to see K-ON! I'm a huge fan of the whole "cute girls doing cute things"/slice of life genre, so this is a must-see.

As for how well it would sell overall, who knows? There's no denying that it's a popular show, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it would sell well, especially when a large part of its audience have already seen fansubbed versions of the show. I know a lot of people who do buy the image songs, though, so there's definitely people out there buying the merchandise.
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386sky



Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 208
Location: South Korea
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:31 pm Reply with quote
The makers for the US DVD wanted to translate the opening credits and put them in the opening for all twelve episodes.

In the opening for Spanish subtitled version for opening, Uzumaki Satoshi has its name in the wrong order and does the karaoke and the FX plus timing for it.

LANF Team:
Sounix (translation, timing)
JamUchiha
Dr Vegapunk (timing)
Juliester
Uzumaki Satoshi (wrong name order, karaoke & FX + timing)
Cesuka
//C.Zero


Last edited by 386sky on Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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