Forum - View topicANNCast - Viewers Like You Episode IV: A View Hope
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doctordoom85
 Posts: 2092 |
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That would explain why the original Fullmetal Alchemist had a TV-PG rating on the DVDs when it should definitely be TV-14. Seriously, you'd have to remove quite a few scenes for that thing to get away with a TV-PG rating. |
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GloriousMaximus
 Posts: 138 Location: North America |
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I think that while they are separate rating systems, both the MPAA and TV ratings are self-imposed by their respective industries, and so they can be related. Neither system really has a specific set of guidelines for rating tv shows or movies, just general guidelines. While this allows them to be fluid these systems to be more fluid in rating shows, I think that it also allows the systems to be inconsistent in their ratings, ie Hetalia being rated 18+. When I started watching Hetalia on the Funimation channel on youtube I was really surprised that was it was rated 18+, and this was before I saw the on-screen F bomb. I honestly think it's because of the casual way the show treats ethnic background, which isn't really a problem for me but it can definitely be a touchy subject for some people. I think because the show is pretty much about generalizing entire countries into one set stereotype that this can be offensive to some people. Perhaps the 18+ rating isn't so much about how the show could be offensive because of swearing, but because it requires a certain maturity level to watch and understand that the show isn't supposed to be racist propaganda or something like that. At least, that's what I think, I could totally be wrong. It would be helpful if someone from Funimation could shed some light on this, but I doubt we'd get that. I can dream though 
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Schoolie
Posts: 21 |
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Interesting Fan-Service conversation with the second caller.
Here's my question: How do the fan-service shots compare in purpose with the super-deformed faces (like Ed in Fullmetal Alchemist or Vash in Trigun)? Both seem to range from quick gags to annoying distraction to complete mood breaker. Last edited by Schoolie on Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Spotlesseden
Posts: 3514 Location: earth |
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Fan-Service is another type of media entertainment. not much different than soft pron.
If people don't like fan service, just don't watch those shows. Or don't watch anime all, it looks like most anime have it now. Even eva has fan service. Remember this world is not about you. there is something out there for everyone and nothing is for everyone. |
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MeggieMay
 Posts: 607 |
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The ratings systems used by the MPAA and TV are both unrelated and voluntary and set by each company. So no, they're not related (I was getting confused on this as well but looked up the Wiki article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_Parental_Guidelines and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_content_rating_systems ).
That said, Justin, have you and/or Zac ever thought about doing a podcast on the subject, possibly talking to Funi, Sentai 23, MB, VIZ, et all discussing what the state of this issue is? I was actually thinking about this last night, as well, because I'm currently trying to compile a list of shows by age ratings because my Anime club really needs a listing (if you want to know the story, I can explain it but after attempting to do it in a earlier version of this post, I think it can be skipped for now  ) . I'll just say that trying to find a list of the shows by ratings is a pain and the half a** system I figured out (use TRSI search engine then go back through and cut out stuff - this list isn't getting done very fast, I want everyone to know because while I'm down from 77 pages to 55, it's giving me a fricking headache and has already got tossed into my "I'll do it when I feel like doing it" pile of stuff to do  ) .
Anyway, what I've already noticed is that Funi isn't exactly alone with changing ratings. Several ADV/Sentai 23 shows have had ratings changed along with some random stuff from other companies. While the bible belt theory probably holds some truth to it (lets keep in mind any complaints would be prosecuted under Texas obscenity laws and this is the same state that throws married couples into jail for having sex toys, mattering on what county they're in), some VIZ titles aren't exactly rated as low as I'd first have thought they'd be (then again, California isn't as liberal outside of LA and SF, as some seem to like to think either). Is the shift to higher ratings just because of the fact two of remaining companies are now in Texas and their disks need to have higher ratings because of potential law suits or is there a shift the companies have noticed that tells them the higher ratings are needed to keep parental complaints down or is there something else all together at work? [BTW, if anyone's needs a good giggle at Funi's expense, explain to me why Afro Samurai Edited (the TV cut) is rated 13+? I'm not sure it was rated that low on Spike.] That said, I don't think any of the US companies are Fifteening. The way I understand 15teening is that it is done to sell more units because in the UK, where this term originally came from, upping the age on the shows helped sell more shows at the time. My gut tells me Funimation would love to sell Hetaila at a lower rating because the fanbase is clearly not all that old from what I've seen. My feeling is Funi is worried about a backlash of angry parents/politically correct people if they had attempted to release this show at a lower rating. Even making sure the higher rating is taken seriously by the spicier language in the dub, Hetalia has the ability of turning into a major media scandal for Funimation releasing it to begin with. |
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GloriousMaximus
Posts: 138 Location: North America |
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I think I was unclear in my earlier posts. The TV ratings system and the MPAA are definitely different entities that use different guidelines when forming their opinions on what a show/movie should be rated. I only found them being related because they neither system really uses codified sets of standards for rating a show or a movie, just general guidelines for what a PG movie should be or what a TV-PG tv show should be.
But I second MeggieMay's idea. It would be really interesting to see how Funimation or Section23 films deals with rating their shows. I know that its the general conception that parents don't really look at the ratings of stuff before buying it, but do companies get feedback on the ratings? How do they come to the conclusion that a show like Hetalia rated is TV-MA but Fullmetal Alchemist is rated TV-PG? Same for manga. I know a while back Tokyopop changed their ratings to include warnings for weird stuff like 'Mild Fanservice' underneath their overall rating on the back of the manga. Wouldn't suggestive or sexual content warnings be suitable enough? Do they make their ratings for teenagers or parents? Because I don't know that many parents (or people outside of fandom for that matter) that know what the word 'fanservice' means. |
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mdo7
 Posts: 6253 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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I got chance to listen to the podcast, very interesting indeed.
Hetalia dub: About the Hetalia dub, it's sort of a gag dub but not like Shin-Chan, and Samurai Pizza Cats. Here's the interesting fact, Japan did sort of like this to one of our cartoon, Beast Wars. Might want to watch the video. Yeah from watching the Japanese dub and found out a lot of thing went wrong with this dub. The Japanese dub of Beast Wars is just like how America used to do with anime in the past. script change: as in throw in bunch of references to anime like Fist of the North Star, breaking the 4th wall, and other stuff. Also Megatron went from a smart guy to a complete airhead in the Japanese dub. voice that don't match: Megatron (who BTW, is voiced by Shigeru Chiba in the Japanese dub) voice don't sound close, Airazor change from female to male in the Japanese dub. change the opening and closing: Does the Japanese opening of Beast Wars remind you of 4kids? What's interesting is that Beast Wars Japanese dub had seriyus that you might have heard in a lot of anime. As I mention, Megatron is voiced by Shigeru Chiba in the JPN dub. Optimus Primal (Convoy in the Japanese dub) is voiced by Takehito Koyasu, Rattrap is voiced by Kappei Yamaguichi, and Cheetor is voiced by Wataru Takagi. So Japan can do the same thing to our cartoon the same way we did to anime. Fanservice: I agree that there are too many anime with fanservice. It kind of ruin anime with good storyline. It does get annoying that there are fanservice in anime that shouldn't be in there at all. There are anime that don't need all that fanservice in there just to get people attention. If viewers want anime with plenty of mindless fanservice, just watch Ikkitousen, Girls Bravo, or just watch a hentai if a person wanted a sexual "fix". There's no need for a hardcore storyline anime to have unnesessary fanservices, maybe slightly one or two, too much is too distracting and I don't see how that help storyline in anime. |
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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One is somewhat envious of a nation in which this is the case. Is self-rating still popular amongst R1 distributors? |
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ArsenicSteel
 Posts: 2370 |
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I didn't know ANNcast mentioned Transformers. Although that product is not targetted at me while the dub Hetalia is. Did the BW re-dub work for the fans watching on Japanese TV? Yes. How many people from that audience complained about the changes?
Now Hetalia. The straight to DVD sales is an unknown currently but members of the intended audience are already either vocally praising or defaming the dub. Will the re-dub of Hetalia be as well received by the intended audience as the re-dub of BW? It doesn't look like it. |
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mdo7
Posts: 6253 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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I was using the Japanese dub of Beast Wars as an example that Japan can screw up our cartoon the same way US screwed up anime. To answers the question about BW Japanese dub work for fans on Japanese TV? Little kids, yes. Hardcore Japanese fans, Nope with a serious grudge. Beast Wars Japanese dub was dumb down to kids level and a lot of thing got changed in the dub. I spoke to a person from Japan about this dub and a lot of Transformers fans in Japan didn't like the dub at all, only little kids in Japan like this show. Editing and changing an American cartoon in Japan is like on the same level as editing and changing anime in the US. |
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ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
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Hardcore fans or not, the re-dub worked for the intended audience. You seem to think anyone you ever talk to that agrees with your nonsense is somehow the majority and absolutely beyond reproach. Hearsay and one person's unverifiable speculation.
Fact is BW worked in Japan, due to the popularity it spawned another BW show and other exclusives. Japan collaborated the production of Transformers and tries to stay with the given continuity even with the Japanese only shows like BW II or The Headmasters. Americans bitching about the changes on Youtube doesn't not mean the Japanese dub is screwed up for the intended audience. Pointing to fans that took exception to the dub will change that for whatever reason the gag dub of the Canadian show worked. Will the dub and change to Hetalia work here? That is the question. |
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dragonrider_cody
Posts: 2541 |
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I have to add a few things about rating systems in America. First of all, TV ratings are not entirely voluntary. Though there aren't any laws requiring them, there is an immense pressure to provide them. They are not required for DVD releases either, but if there is any chance of a TV airing, even if just VOD, its make sense to include a rating. However, each company essentially rates the material themselves.
MPAA ratings are entirely voluntary, though many movie theaters will not show films without an official rating. This is why we get "Unrated Edition" DVDs. They often include material that would raise the rating. MPAA ratings are not determined by the individual companies, but by the MPAAs review board. They will also request cuts if a studio is attempting for a certain rating, such as R as opposed to Nc-17. Watch the South Park movie for a lesson in this. |
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mdo7
Posts: 6253 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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You got proof to back that up, because unless you can back that up I don't believe you, let me quote this from a Japanese friend from Wikipedia (since I can't find any other sources to back this up):
Of course you said it was sucessful, I didn't hear any of this. Where did you hear that from? That's why I don't believe you. The Beast War anime was just created as a filler while season 2 and 3 were getting dubbed in Japanese, if it was that popular how come they never release Beast Wars in original English on Japanese DVDs. About the Hetalia dub, I doubt the dub would deter any people away because the subtitle is close to the Japanese audio then the gag English dub Funi make. |
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ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
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It did get a DVD release with the Canandian audio track. It was popular enough to get two movies. Getting a movie is evidence of relative popularity.
You can say you doubt it but there are people in this very thread saying the dub has caused them not to want to purchase Funi's release. From that point on it is up to you to figure whether the people saying it now are exceptions or a sampling of the anime community. Since the people don't agree with what you believe I already know you will treat them as exceptions and not as a sampling. 'Cause that just works for your point. |
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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You can see how relative the self rating is when you do some comparisons: I remember how older dvds many many years ago certainly did not carry an 18+ rating just for having nudity, although they will mention that fact on the back. Now however, it carries an immediate and explicit 18+ from Funi and Viz. It still boggles my mind how in-your-face about it Viz has become, like with every volume of Nana, the front cover has 3 explicit warning labels: a "FOR AGES 18+" label | a "Rated M for Mature" label similar to those used by video games | and an even bigger "Parental Advisory EXPLICIT CONTENT" label.
.. but then again, having Toy's R'Us completely remove DBZ manga due to a parent's complaint (of child porn and contacting the police no less), maybe they have become very wary by now.. But if you compare with Media Blasters, everything is at most rated 16+ and it's only labeled on the back. Ikkitousen under Funi = 18+ (not to mention requiring age verification like all other their other titles to view online). Ikkitousen under Media Blasters = 16+. The 18+ rating from MB seems to be reserved for their hentai titles, which makes more sense actually.
Funimation has officially stated in one of their blog posts that the TV-MA rating is purely due to the occasional swearing.
Violence is tolerated orders of magnitude more than sex in the US. Not just culturally, but even those voluntary-but-federally recommended guidelines: you can get away with a ton of violence, and censored swear words as they do on TV (which makes no sense; what difference does it make hearing f**k or hearing the whole word?) -- but show a girl's nipple? All hell is raised. Not possible on broadcast TV and requires 18+ / TV-MA rating on adult or late-night cable channels, along with explicit warnings. Heck even the ridiculous obscenity laws only apply to sexual matters as well. Violence no matter how crazy or overboard cannot be considered legally obscene. To see how ratings--and reactions--are so very relative even in the "west", just look at other "western" countries in South America and Europe. I think a lot of Americans will simply be shocked. |
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