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NEWS: Hen Zemi's Tagro Addresses Illegally Streamed Videos


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Teriyaki Terrier



Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 5689
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:08 am Reply with quote
Here we go again. Except this time, it's from an author that is doing a show that is from Gainax.

Though I do 100% do agree with the author. It may not be the "worst" event to partake in, but it certainly has a lasting impact. That much is certain.
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garfield15



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 1409
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:23 am Reply with quote
Awwwwwww, snap, here's comes Epic thread #2!

Quote:
"I understand the feelings of annoyance that creators get when their material is watched for free. I get annoyed when an anime BD I just bought is posted on the net!"

.....

Kaaaaayyy...?
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DoktorZetsubou





PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:30 am Reply with quote
I must admit I was kind of shocked by how negative the general response to the post about the Kuroshitsuji author was.

Expected more of a "oh, author of something I like has such a problem with this? Well, shit, I should stop" rather than people actually trying to defend their own pirating habits.

Guess I overestimate people...
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Kit-Tsukasa



Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 930
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:00 am Reply with quote
major problem with this statement: you don't know if something is illegal until you actually watch it, in which case you are then in "trouble." Given the power of search engines nowadays, even trying to search for a "legal" video on youtube would result in massive amounts of both legal and illegal uploads and you won't really know until you start watching it.

The other issue regarding illegal videos... this is all leading up to AMVs and MADs basically going down the drain if you ask me. A lot of companies nowadays are enforcing any bit of content to be taken down from youtube. Considering AMVs and MADs are often made by ripping dvd/bds (whether you own them legally or not), by basically enforcing the copyright issue, conventions basically wither down to nothing.

tl;dr: these opinions are doing more harm than good. By provoking lawmakers to enforce copyright laws, you're gradually causing the collapse of the anime and manga industry from the inside out.
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Anime Remix



Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 354
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:00 am Reply with quote
garfield15 wrote:
Awwwwwww, snap, here's comes Epic thread #2!
LOL! I wonder how many pages will THIS thread have compared to the first one.
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Sheleigha



Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 1659
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:13 am Reply with quote
garfield15 wrote:


Quote:
"I understand the feelings of annoyance that creators get when their material is watched for free. I get annoyed when an anime BD I just bought is posted on the net!"

.....

Kaaaaayyy...?


My thoughts were more 0_o. So wait, she gets annoyed when she pays for a product and then someone puts it online for free? Which is... her reason for doing it? I'm kind of confused...
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Sailor S





PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:37 am Reply with quote
Kit-Tsukasa wrote:

tl;dr: these opinions are doing more harm than good. By provoking lawmakers to enforce copyright laws, you're gradually causing the collapse of the anime and manga industry from the inside out.


How do you figure? It wasn't too long, and I did read, but I don't see how the rest of what you wrote supports that. I think you're over exaggerating things, but hey, even if AMVs were suddenly declared illegal and banned, how does that destroy the anime and manga industry? I've never watched an AMV and suddenly been hit with the urge to own whatever show is featured if I didn't already own it. Sorry, but I just don't see your argument supporting your conclusion.
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relentlessflame



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 188
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:58 am Reply with quote
garfield15 wrote:
Awwwwwww, snap, here's comes Epic thread #2!

Quote:
"I understand the feelings of annoyance that creators get when their material is watched for free. I get annoyed when an anime BD I just bought is posted on the net!"

.....

Kaaaaayyy...?

...I guess the thinking is supposed to be "I can see how you get annoyed when the things you own get posted on the Net. I get annoyed when the things I buy get posted on the Net too." Of course there's a huge difference between something owning a disc and owning the IP that form the basis of the disc... and yeah, the logic totally doesn't follow. Shared annoyance = it's okay? ^^; It's probably easier to just say "well, that made no sense..." and dismiss it.

But the one small grain of... something... that I can dig out of that mess of a statement is that there is a sort of feeling of futility that comes with being a collector these days. Like, no matter how much I try to do the right thing and buy as much as possible, other people don't care or have the slightest compulsion to pay anything for the works they to love. In fact, I've often had people tell me I'm foolish for it (which I wear with some pride; why the hell not). But sometimes I do look at my balance sheet and say to myself "it sure would be easier if I could just not care". And in that sense, I could see someone coming to the (false/selfish) conclusion that "What's the value of buying merchandise? Someone'll just post it to the Net anyway; I can just spend my money on other things." And in a strange/twisted way specific to this statement, "Who cares about videos posted on the Web; no one can stop it, and if I don't post it someone else will anyway". When people start going down those trains of thought, it leads to all sorts of dead ends. Like I said, I don't think this much thought went into the original statement, but that's sort of what it made me think of in an abstract way.

DoktorZetsubou wrote:
Expected more of a "oh, author of something I like has such a problem with this? Well, shit, I should stop" rather than people actually trying to defend their own pirating habits.

Guess I overestimate people...

I think that's not even overestimating people, but fundamentally misunderstanding the way people think about downloading anime and manga. Self-inflicted guilt/shame is not usually enough to dissuade people from rewarding/treating themselves, just as it wouldn't normally be enough to dissuade people from any other sort of seemingly "harmless crime". Basically, doing the right thing is costly in many ways (time, money, convenience, effort, etc.). Doing the wrong thing is immediately gratifying and has no apparent and immediate consequences, assuming you are not swayed by guilt. And that's sort of why we have this situation. And if people aren't swayed by guilt to begin with, I'm not sure you're really going to convince them by applying more guilt. I suppose all this does is provide one less excuse.
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Kruszer



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 7949
Location: Minnesota, USA
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:21 am Reply with quote
Quote:
How do you figure? It wasn't too long, and I did read, but I don't see how the rest of what you wrote supports that. I think you're over exaggerating things, but hey, even if AMVs were suddenly declared illegal and banned, how does that destroy the anime and manga industry? I've never watched an AMV and suddenly been hit with the urge to own whatever show is featured if I didn't already own it. Sorry, but I just don't see your argument supporting your conclusion.


Well, there's a theory that things like fansubs and streaming sites have kind of a symbiotic relationship with the domestic anime industry (IE. Outside Japan) and help boost sales and get the word out about titles. In the way that fans who watched the series that way and liked it, might create sales on said product when it's domestically released from people who want to own it or because they use fansubs and streaming like an alternate form of television to preview it. If you take away that avenue and don't provide some legal way to preview the product you might not be able to convince as many people to buy it and thus lose sales.

This is why legal streaming is such a brilliant alternative as the fan doesn't have to resort to illegal methods to preview or pre-watch the series and sales are largely maintained or increased. Anime companies don't usually run advertising campaigns so sales are either from word of mouth, TV airings, reading the description on the box, or fansubs and illegal/legal streams.

Of course it's just a theory, but I subscribe to it since my DVD collection would not be so massive were it not for the series I watched via fansub and then bought when they were licensed and released.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:39 am Reply with quote
Kruszer wrote:

This is why legal streaming is such a brilliant alternative as the fan doesn't have to resort to illegal methods to preview or pre-watch the series and sales are largely maintained or increased. Anime companies don't usually run advertising campaigns so sales are either from word of mouth, TV airings, reading the description on the box, or fansubs and illegal/legal streams.

Of course it's just a theory, but I subscribe to it since my DVD collection would not be so massive were it not for the series I watched via fansub and then bought when they were licensed and released.


I'm the same way in terms of buying stuff I get fansubs for. BUT there's a big problem with the idea that simply switching to free but legal streaming is enough. If it were enough, Funimation wouldn't have dropped Big Windup for example.

With literally a few cents per ad, simply switching from "illegal" streaming to "legal" streaming is NOT going to help. If people did that and bought nothing, or decreased their spending as we see in these times, despite doing everything legally, well him and everyone else would still be out of a job if it continued.

On the other hand, as I've said before, if people buy something -- anything, be it video or non-video merchandise like figures which actually plays a larger role and what people often discount, regardless of how they watched it in the first place, that actually helps more than the frugal-but-totally-legal viewer!
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Sunday Silence



Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 2047
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:46 am Reply with quote
configspace wrote:
BUT there's a big problem with the idea that simply switching to free but legal streaming is enough.


How so? One way is to beat the fans....erm, "pirates" by releasing the content quicker than those filthy bastards. Some manga literally gets a scanlation treatment within hours of the release onto the shelves.

It's more work, but then again, your promoting your "official" product, and people will opt to be legit rather than be a thief.
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sharonlover



Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 78
Location: Washington DC
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:02 am Reply with quote
Kit-Tsukasa wrote:

The other issue regarding illegal videos... this is all leading up to AMVs and MADs basically going down the drain if you ask me. A lot of companies nowadays are enforcing any bit of content to be taken down from youtube. Considering AMVs and MADs are often made by ripping dvd/bds (whether you own them legally or not), by basically enforcing the copyright issue, conventions basically wither down to nothing.


However, a recent iteration of the American Digital Rights act (or whatever the hell it is), states that clips of licensed material is legal. Posting an entire movie is not. At least that was my interpretation. This means that AMV's should be fine for the time being, at least here, but that still doesn't clear the way for the music Razz

It was an article I read, I swear, but I haven't been able to dig it up. Can anyone else find it?

*edit* found it. Anyone else have an interpretation?

http://www.betanews.com/article/DMCA-revised-unlocking-jailbreaking-phones-ebook-texttospeech-potentially-fair-use/1280166064
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NDenizen



Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 70
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:15 am Reply with quote
DoktorZetsubou wrote:
rather than people actually trying to defend their own pirating habits.


"Pirating" involves selling someone else's work for profit.

Goddamit, for the love of god can people stop getting this word wrong over and over again.
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ghostman50



Joined: 18 Aug 2010
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:30 am Reply with quote
NDenizen wrote:
DoktorZetsubou wrote:
rather than people actually trying to defend their own pirating habits.


"Pirating" involves selling someone else's work for profit.

Goddamit, for the love of god can people stop getting this word wrong over and over again.


Maybe you're the one that is misinterpreting the word "pirating".

Think about it.... Pirates dont sell, they steal. Shocked
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hissatsu01



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 963
Location: NYC
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:40 am Reply with quote
NDenizen wrote:

"Pirating" involves selling someone else's work for profit.

Goddamit, for the love of god can people stop getting this word wrong over and over again.

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”

You need to alert all dictionaries that they're mistaken about the meaning of the word. Or perhaps other people aren't the ones getting it wrong over and over again.

Anyhow, let us continue with Round 2 of "These stupid mangaka need to shut up or else I won't download their crap anymore! Hey, stop laughing! Why are you laughing? I'm serious!"
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