Forum - View topicNEWS: Hen Zemi's Tagro Addresses Illegally Streamed Videos
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agila61
 Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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You've got your people flipped around ... two different "she's". The "he warned her" above is the author Tagro warning a female fan who was streaming a bootleg of the work he writes for from her website ... that is, the article that this thread is attached to ... ... he was speaking up in support of the female manga-ka who wrote a blog entry pleading with the people who enjoy her creation to find some way to support it. |
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Almaz
Posts: 134 |
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Making some progress. Cool.
As being Disney, they should have their core protected, forever. They are a special case. Shows that are produced, outside of their core, should have protection from entities from free use for a time. I am not talking about the current law they bought. We are getting to a point where the protection is damaging creation. Down the road, say a half century (less would be better.) Someone should be allowed to use Disney's creations to create something new. The original is still there. However, Disney (and any other company) should have their works be put into the pubic domain after a time. That is all I was saying. Give and take. Not take and take. Disney did benefit from the pubic domain on many occasions as has others.
My apologies in more than one count.  We are very similar on many ways. Minus the government job. You mentioned the entitlement of people. I believe that is something that has arrived with more people having less responsibility and jobs for the youth. I am sure you are aware. Teen unemployment has been growing more each year. Many of us learn valuable experiences with those jobs. Without that, many are growing up with a bronze spoon (would be silver if this nation was richer.)
Yes, CA is expensive. With the more bang for the buck mentality, Texas is more of a place for me. Goodness. I have seen houses in TX go for three times the price in Ca. My point with the house and car deal was that fan based "viewing" do allow someone to see what they are buying. We do expect it in many things in life. Jumping on people without knowing their motivations are counter-productive. I do understand where you are coming from. As someone with paid assets (art books, DVDs, etc.), the notion of others getting items totally fill in the blank. I will let people borrow my DVDs to watch. If I knew they were copying them for their library, FLAMES. I would cut their privileges until they correct their attitude (no copying) or buy the DVDs. I believe that people ought to have the room for fansubs within reasons and controls. Simucasts were born from this. Hopefully, this will bring more supply and demand instead of the demand only. Your 150 book collection took a while to complete then. Sounds like my anime collection. Look for sales. Get some here and there. Shop around for used copies. |
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agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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Nor are you talking about the issue at hand. A more complete and total red herring is hard to find. See, the thing is, even under Berne convention minimum rules, 50 years after the death of the author, except 25 years for photographic and 50 years for cinematographic work ... 2010 minus 50 years is 1960, so we would be talking about Astro Boy and black and white first wave and the original Speed Racer coming into public domain over the next ten years. And much of that stuff is widely available on free streaming anyway ... the YouTube ones with quite limited ads. None of the bootleg sites would generate any traffic by focusing on "things that ought to be in the public domain under laws not bought by Disney". All of their traffic is from stuff that would be under copyright for the next thirty to fifty years, even if we dropped the auctioning of copyright law to the highest bidder and went to Berne convention minimums. |
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Almaz
Posts: 134 |
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SIGH. I guess I need to be more specific since I painted an ant with large brush. I have problems with the disconnect of the current laws, and who they really protect. As of large sites like One Manga, you can BBQ if you wish. It is no different from hundreds of smaller fan sites. The point, I was trying to convey and you are missing, is the law is not working out for either side. You really think after X amount of time Disney will let the property go? They are the ones who paid congress to keep their stuff out of public domain. The movie and radio industry were all for it. The laws are for the public, not companies trying to horde toys. The creators are actually left behind in the mess of this. Everything needs to be balanced to creators can be paid well, companies can make some profits off of it, and fans can have a price structure and medium they want. Real supply and demand, not demands of the companies. Please do not repeat the same thing, over and over. The purpose of discussions is to try to bring the sides together with some common ground. Not start a civil war over a kinda silly subject that no one here can do anything about. |
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agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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Its easy for piracy supporters who are no running profitable sites to agree that that piracy is bad. But the "copyright laws have been abused" excuse is a red herring for all of the piracy we are talking about. For example, there aren't any "fixes" of these problems that will make it legal for a scanlator to distribute the original art with their translation pasted on top or the translated subtitle distributed alongside, without the permission of the original creator, so none of them would support scanlation or fansubs at all. Even "not for profit, only distribute in a country where the original material is not licensed" fansubbing and scanlating will be illegal, because giving the original author the right to say whether or not their work will be distributed in the first few decades after release is the law working correctly, and is not an abuse of the law,
"Not working out" in what sense? Its easy to judge something as a total failure when it is not being compared to a real world alternative. What about the alternative of no law at all? No law would be far worse as far as the income to the people who create the works, and therefore would be worse as far as reducing the total amount of work available to anyone (including the pirates). So having the law is obviously providing some benefit to everyone ~ rights creators, the industry that has grown up around distributing their work, and the activity of pirating their work. They all benefit from having the actual law in place now, for all of its flaws. When focusing on the flaws in the law ~ which are quite serious ~ comparing that to a situation in which there are no problems is a misleading comparison, since in the real world there are always problems. So:
Unless you want to fansub 1930's Mickey Mouse cartoons into some other language, all of this is a complete red herring effort to distract from the issue of the copyright piracy plaguing the anime and manga industries.
Efforts to find ways to be able to crowdsource subtitling and manga translation overlays to the benefit of the industry instead of the present situation where they are damaging the industry ... that would be useful. After all, one of the best ways to cut down on the flood of bootleg materials and to ensure that they are of very low quality compared to the legit material may be to give the translators something to do that will earn them the praise instead of the condemnation of the authors of the works that they love. |
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Why do you want to make something based on Disney? This is what I don't get.
I get they are big & evil. I remember around 1980 a group of Disney animators made a film & made damn well sure they did not use any materials from Disney so Disney couldn't claim the film. Something similar happened recently with the Bratz dolls as I recall. Why not create your own fricken characters? There are folk tales all around the world to base stories on. Why do you want to use someone else's characters? Disney has the duty really to protect their brand because parents around the world trust they can take their babies to a Disney film & not worry about the content. It seems to me Nick managed to air a number of non-Disney characters who are every bit as creative & original as anything Disney has. I really don't want to see every Tom, Dick & pervert knock off Bugs or Daffy (Seen too many Calvin & Hobbs home-made "jokes" that aren't funny). I've never really gotten the doujin market in Japan because it just doesn't seem to be something that would be allowed in the US. Yeah, we have fan-fics & all, but in a way it seems to me not being able to use someone else's characters has allowed US comics ot be more diverse in many ways. If you really want to use tried & true characters, go work for the companies they belong to. Otherwise, pitch your own. In a way, I do believe fansubs have sort of damaged the anime fan community. Most every other fandom out there seems to have no problem figuring out how to decide what to buy or not to buy. Where did Twilight come from? Someone scanned the first novel onto a bunch of fansites & after reading it, the fans ran out & bought it? True Blood was all over Comic-Con this year. (actually last year also.) I saw something about some stupid bracelets being an issue in schools--these things become popular without free product all over. I have no idea if Japanese product carries the warnings we have, but realistically pretty much every book I've seen says one cannot copy it & every dvd I've seen says home use only on pain of a a couple thousand dollars fine & prison time. It's like music ratings--we never needed them. Parents should be aware of what their kids are into & just blindly accepting a rating is ridiculous. A few minutes on the net & one can figure out a whole lot of stuff, including anime. A rating encourages not investigating further. Not to mention the whole "preview" idea loses all validity when they're watching stuff that hasn't been licensed outside of Japan & probably won't be for a year or more. It's more free range grazing. |
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mglittlerobin
 Posts: 1071 |
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I believe that if you like the annime, and it's your favorite show, you should buy it, to show your appreciation to all the people who made it happen, on both sides of the continent, the licenser who brought it over here, the dub actors, who worked so hard, the Japanese Seyuus, who also worked hard, the production company and everyone else who made it happen and especially the creator of the story, appreciate it when you pay for something they worked on, becaues that means there will be more of it.
The anime fandom isn't so large like LOST where if a bunch of people pirate it and never buy a box set that the price won't go up too much because LOST can offset the people that don't buy because there are so many people that do buy it. Anime isn't mainstream, despite all the people who show up at conventions, it doesn't sell a whole lot, and creators all need money. That's universal. People should always support what they like and support the legal streaming too, because that helps the creators too go, 'Oh, people will watch it legally, they don't just steal my work and say they love me." |
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Almaz
Posts: 134 |
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I have to say. Out of everything you said. This is the most constructive comment you said so far. Let me be frank here. I have been having a debate between different people on the issues. I am not taking sides. Call me a hypocrite. That's me. I am just discussing different points from both sides of the issue. That's is something you have not picked up on. I have been leaning toward the anarchy more. I know better than you what anarchy means. I also recognize what the opposite means. I was hoping to get some good ideas and conversation. All you are giving is the hell, fire, and damnation over and over. Maybe a preacher is a profession you should take up. (Just a joke) To make you feel better, I think those who wrote the author bragging about their conquests are complete $#%@. Sites that are warehouses of titles do damage the industry. I am not saying this for lip service. It is true. This problem affects ALL areas of business beyond anime. I am not for certain. I would believe the author has a company she works for. They should be the ones taking up the issues. They should deal with the little turds giving her trouble. I guess she could be independent. If that was the case, call the police and change your email address. I know that authors do like to communicate with everyone. It is oblivious that it is bothering her. I do no know what to say beyond that. Sorry. The world sucks at times. I am not ready to write the human race off as quickly as you seemed to do from a minority of people. Funny part is no one is playing by the rules, including you. Of course, your only counter is the red herring comment. You have not even proven your point to show that piracy is doing all of the damage. Your side sounds like global warming issue. It's hotter so its got to be global warming. Duh. Only facts. They can prove both sides. Do not bother with the different websites with "scientific" studies of piracy. The GAO just shot down and damaged the credibility of most of those studies. The rest are based on those studies. We have no answers. If you feel so sympathetic to the cause, go to the streets with a sign telling pirates that they are going to hell. During the time I have been on the earth, this has been going on. I guess you can arrest everyone. I am sure we can find something to find them guilty on. What the heck. I did not bring up this discussion to have you outright insult me. I was not trying to insult you. I know things I write can be ambiguous. It is a curse of my brain to screen communications. Your counters have been par for the course except you calling the common ground BS. Why is it BS? You seemed to quickly write it off. Within that ground is where businesses can find the answer to their problems. Being closed minded is why the answer is not found. Alright agila61, it has been fun. Writing shotgun has it problems as I have found. I just need to break down and write a proper paper. Later.
I should have said that Disney was an example. As I was telling agila61, I tend to not to connected my thoughts. I can be schizophrenic at times. I am just glad to have spell checkers, or things would be worse.  As I was reading my own statements, I have gone off on a tangent on that issue. It is not directly related to the issue. I should have focused on my other points. I am dropping that.
As the current U.S. laws are, doujin would have trouble here. agila61 seems to know more about that so I will leave that issue to him (her?). I think Japan is similar except they considered doujin to be a sub-market that compliments the main one. I never been interested in doujin since it seems a majority of it falls into ecchi/hentai as of late. I think it can be good for the market. While some write doujin for profit, others write taking the characters and build a better world for them. Fan versions. I would think it would be harder to write something while not outright plagiarizing the original. The original creators have rewritten the same characters into new storylines, like Tenchi Muyo. US comics, within itself, rehashes the same characters. We have different versions of Superman, Spiderman, etc. It is kinda sad that a fan cannot openly write about a story based upon another.
I agree with that fansubs, in a way, have damaged the industry. While I have not read Twilight, I will bet that many read the book off of the Internet. That is a safe bet. Some will buy the book. I do believe that. I know several people who read X and went to purchase it. There are many reason for that: having a tangible copy, supporting the author, convenience, not having to read it off of the monitor, better quality. You could transfer it to a portable device and negate some the issues. However, there will be people who will not pay for their own copy, be it through legal or illegal means. This has been and will always be. The only difference in the computer age has amplified the issue.
Another interesting point. In my opinion, everyone who watch their DVD's outside of their private home is violating the copyright laws. DVD players inside laptop computers are practically a violation. I saw on another website the some DVDs have clearer writing stating that watching in airports, oil rigs, blah, blah, blah is prohibited. Basically, you can only watch in the privacy of your home. There have been cases of people getting notices for playing music (for their own personal enjoyment.) where others can hear. I think that is silly in some cases.
The statement was valid until the information age started. I am not saying it is an excuse or permission. It just cannot be undone. Now, the rules need to be redone. I have no earthy idea where to start. I do know that looking down on others have negative effects. The governments of the world have been perplex on the issue too. The laws tell the tales. The vary like night and day. I am not of fan of what the US is doing. Like I said before, I will just cancel my internet, cable, quit buying anything else and just live with my stash. I have enough DVDs, games, books to last the rest of my life. Sorry for being so long winded. I like being able to debate these issues. I wish I was better at expressing what I really want to say. I bid you adieu. For now, the subject has gotten quite stale, and I have been neglecting by gaming addiction. Until next time. |
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agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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I don't know where you get that. I'm saying it clearly hurts the industry, and those who enjoy the works generated by the industry have a stake in cutting it back enough so that the industry can survive. Sure, when activity is parasitic, I'll call the people doing that parasites, but that's because I'm not a big fan of beating around the bush. If people are down with being parasites, it shouldn't bother them, and if they aren't down with being parasites, then instead of worrying about people saying it out lout, they should rather worry about why they are doing something that they don't want talked about in plain language in public.
But they only exist because of the scanlators and fansubbers, and scanlators and fansubbers have to know that their material is going to end up on those sites and that what they do is what keeps those sites in business. Its like you can't take potshots at squirrels in the yard and then claim innocence if one of the bullets ricochets and hits a car or a passing pedestrian.
I have a stronger belief in freedom of speech than that. The useless bloodsucking parasites certainly are not shy about broadcasting their opinions, so I see nothing wrong with the people who actually do the original work that the whole industry depends on making their own opinion known. |
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