Forum - View topicNEWS: Hen Zemi's Tagro Addresses Illegally Streamed Videos
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agila61
 Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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Yes. Copyright is not "right to view" ~ that's why used bookstores and Netflix are legal. Copyright is "right to make a copy". If the legal rule is that the streaming site is "making the copy" and the temporary buffer is "part of viewing that copy", then the entire legal liability for streaming is the site that is streaming the anime. In the US, there are "safe harbor" rules for sites that allow public uploads that say how they have to behave to avoid any legal liability for hosting bootlegs ... I don't know whether Japan has the same, but even if they do, the young fan streaming from their own site obviously does not qualify as a safe harbor. One reason it gets confused is that normal torrent downloading is also uploading at the same time, so normal torrent downloading of bootlegs is always illegal. Whether leech torrent downloading (that is, without responding to requests for uploaded packets) is legal or not in the US might not have been tested in US courts, but in Japanese law, torrent downloading of bootlegs is clearly illegal whether or not you set your torrent program to pass on packets. Of course, if everyone leeched their torrent download, then torrents would be no faster than the original seed. Edit: typo Last edited by agila61 on Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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There's no need for an excuse. While that may well turn out to be the dominant means of distribution, its the creator's right to say what is and is not allowed. Its their right even if PetrifiedJello disagrees and even if they are making a commercial mistake in the decisions that they make ... that's what "right" means. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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Do you understand it's those rules which makes this difficult to begin with?
Hollywood can't pull it off because they're using the same rules, CCSYueh. Remember, you're taking about an entertainment powerhouse that tells other companies to wait 28 days to distribute their own product legally. 28 days. Guess what happens during this time. I'd highly recommend we leave Hollywood out of this discussion.
Is this your final answer? (psst.... it's not the one) |
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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My point being things change. There is no guarantee anime or manga will exist in 20 yrs. I won't watch Reality tv because I see it as part of that whole process where people don't even have to follow plot points, just watch stupid human tricks. Entertainment is made for profit. If there is no profit, the makers go away. If none is made it can't be accessed. |
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hissatsu01
 Posts: 963 Location: NYC |
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So I'll finally be able to catch up on my backlog? Thank goodness. But this is rather perpendicular to the discussion at hand. |
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TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5825 Location: Virginia, United States |
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You know, that first sentence, that sentiment, really gets my goat. It ignores the fundamental fact that modern anime viewing in the West, was based and evolved from us Westerners not paying any heed to that sentiment back in the beginning. I have been watching anime for almost 30 years now, longer if you count the Amercianized "Speed Racer" and "Battle of the Planets". My home is full of english and japanese laserdiscs, vhs tapes, DVD's, and now Blu-Rays. It is a little too late to be telling me I have no right to watch Japanese animation. Yes, the anime industry is suffering problems, and yes, piracy is a problem for anime licensed in the West. But this is a problem that the Japanese have spent decades growing. For decades they have poo pawed the West as a customer base, so to meet the demand a supply infrastructure has evolved. Generations of anime lovers have grown up with the "expectation" that the anime they love would not come over to the West, this also dove tailed nicely with the emerging internet. Things have greatly changed, even in the last few years. Who would have thought that new series in Japan would get licensed so fast now, even now when anime is in the decline commercially here in the West. Still there are some inescapable facts (at least for now). There are plenty of anime that will not be licensed, some for cost considerations and others for the emerging morality crusade. You also still have a fansub community that has evolved over the decades to meet their needs and their community of viewers. I really cannot fault fansubbers who sub non-western licensed anime. Why should I deny them, what I have had and enjoyed over the years. If the West can make and sell DVD's of almost every single show on TV and Cable, I don't see why the Japanese can't do the same. Until that time, fansubbers whether you like it or not will be around. Prohibition should have taught us something, that if there is a demand, someone is going to supply it. After three decades of viewing anime, no one is going to tell me what I can watch or not. I acknowledge that there are problems on both sides of the issue, but you are not going to solve these problems seperately. (To make this clear, I don't condone the fansubbing of western licensed anime, as this hurts domestic DVD sales and will hurt future domestic licensing.) To quote and adapt a saying from Dune: "The anime must flow." |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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I was told I shouldn't feed you, but I'm going to do so anyway. Did I mention anything about the circumvention of artists rights? No. Did I disagree with anything the article stated? No. I proposed a method for artists to generate revenue which works in addition to dead trees and recycled water bottles. It is not a replacement. It is not taking anything away from the artist. Some artists can't distribute their works via the internet, despite what some of you believe, and are now restricted from doing what each one of us agrees on: making more money. I hope it made you feel good to misrepresent your ability to understand. |
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ArsenicSteel
 Posts: 2370 |
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Yeah the article already mentioned that downloads(DDL and torrents are downloads) are illegal both to and fro. The sub-headline,Current Japanese law does not prohibit watching unauthorized streams, and the topic of the article was the part that intrigued me. |
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CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Gee. I thought it had to do with filming, location, the health of the workers, etc. People aren't robots. They only produce stuff so fast.
See above. If the director takes an extra month to perfect his "vision", the studio has little choice. In the meantime, you are talking all sorts of co-ordination each step which allows a mess-up. They might be able to gear up for this stuff once in awhile, but on a weekly basis? I don't see it HUMANLY possible at this time & even for awhile.
I'm glad you live in some sort of universe were all nations get along & we can broadcast signals into all countries of the world because the reality where I live, we can't even get 2 states to agree to stuff. It's not you & your desire for anime. It's imports, treaties, labor disputes, were any animals hurt making that anime? Are they using green energy?.... The WORLD is not ready to get along to the extent you envision Human Beings also are not up to that level. The technology may exist, but such petty things as cost of making it work vs profits to be made are in the way. They HAD a steam engine in the Roman era, but saw no use for it. We get flooding in Ohio (Illinois?) & drought in the West & we can't even manage to create a system where water can be moved to a drought state (like some sort of aqueduct system) & YOU think world broadcast of anime is all that important? I just read this in Zetsubo Sensei #7 (Chapter 63)... |
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_V_
 Posts: 619 |
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God help us all |
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Ahab
Posts: 28 |
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Well, as somebody living in Japan, I am VERY relieved to hear that watching anime on overseas streaming sites is not breaking the law here! After downloads were outlawed I have been very wary of being able to watch anime on streaming sites so now, thanks to this article putting my mind at rest, I can watch stuff without fear of the police paying me a visit!
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agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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I was told not to feed you, and so after that one lapse, I'll refrain from repeating the offense. |
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CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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But it is true. We do not have a right to it & you know it And if ou HAVE been watching anime that long (I remember playing with my sister singing the Gigantor Theme & watching Kimba every week. I even have vague memories of Astro Boy so I guess I have you trumped? We're talking early-mid 1960's)
My uncle was stationed in Japan during WWII & grandmother had a Japanese penpal so I have these Japanese wooden dolls she sent Grandmother. We, outside of Japan, had no right to those dolls. The gal's name was something like Mitsu Abe so had she not sent grandmother those dolls, or my uncle not developed a love of things Japanese & brought stuff back, no, we wouldn't have them. How is that a mis-statement? If you've been collecting that long, I assume you've paid a pretty penny to import stuff, but that stuff was sold in Japan or thru an outlet from Japan, correct?
Stll on the same page. If you wanted anime, you bought it from Japan or a Japanese market in town. I went to Mexico & bought many Spanish magazines with Kiss on the cover back in the early 1980's when their popularity was down in the US. I surely didn't expect newstands here to have them any more than I expect Fry's to have anime soundtracks. I have paid a pretty penny to get those from CD Japan.
Where's my Brimstone TV series on dvd? Hasn't been issued. Nightmare Cafe? Damn it! And let us look at those dvds put out in America, usually region-coded for the US, right? Probably not subtitled in Japanese....Your argument is weak & in fact supports my argument. American dvds are made to sell to Americans. Some token languages (Spanish & French) are often thrown in, but that often has more to do with markets the title may have aired in anyway & thus the track exists
Sorry. My mama taught me empathy. I know I would be upset if someone felt they could take my work without paying me (in fact, I did have that-cherry picking, the woman I worked for shorted the lbs all the time, but I was 12). I happen to believe the creator deserves proper recompense. You obviously don't mind mooching. Like the old Safeway commercial said
Don't see not paying someone for their work as an honest deal. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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CCSYueh, you need to pick a segment of the argument and stick to it, okay? Because if you don't, it makes conversations really difficult. This example of the production isn't associated to my statement. How the content of the production can generate revenues without falling to piracy is the scope.
Is there a rule stating content can only be produced by one person I wasn't aware of? You're reading content by someone responding to content you wrote.
No, I'm not, CCSYueh. These negotiations often happen before production even starts.
I can understand why. You're not familiar with how things are done. My advice: read up on those committees you often see listed with anime production. These are the people who get to distribute the TV show, toys, figures, and other merchandise. They're also the ones who get to re-license out the productions to companies like FUNimation. That last step is what allows others to take from the artist and give to everyone else. Now, which do you think is the better solution: -let things go as they are and hope people become moral -or- -change the way things are done The way things are going, the first option will happen sooner than the last.
Because of rules probably preventing Series X to be syndicated on Station Y which can be picked up by people outside of the syndication region.
Wait. I thought you were an optimist. 
The WORLD IS READY. It's those controlling content who are not. Want proof? Those who pirate outside of accessible region code viewing, please explain to this young lady how your legal options fair in your local area.
Misconception perpetrated by those who think "Bigger = profitable"! From video games to movies to TV shows to books, it's been proven many times a huge budget is not necessary to produce content. The Blair Witch Project was filmed on a budget less than $100k. It made millions. This video has netted the family over $100,000 (I'm sure they're starving right now). I can't recall the song, but an artist wrote it in less than 3 hours on a flight and it became a #1 song. A producer introduced a reality series called "Survivor" when others (fighting over those damn rules) went on strike. The production value was so little, but returned millions. This series is still on the air today. More examples, or will you concede this one?
Um... we're talking about people's livelihood to eat, remember?
Wha? ... 
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TarsTarkas
Posts: 5825 Location: Virginia, United States |
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I already acknowledge that I am not going to win in any word games with you. So I am not going to really bother with it.
You wouldn't be watching anime today, if people didn't watch it "illegally" back in the day. The Japanese laserdisc's I had were bought in import shops when I was stationed in Hawaii. Though I did get some earlier from some mail order import shop in LA, whose name I forgot. Usually was hit or miss, you bought what they had, not what you wanted. Your argument really has no basis in reality, people are not going to stop watching anime, just because the creator of the show or the company which makes it says no. I buy hardcopy when it is available, (still waiting for my copy of Toradora, talking to you Right Stuff), but if it is not, then all bets are off. Feels like I am talking to an alien, who says he loves anime, but won't watch it if the creator of it doesn't want him to watch it. Really just don't understand that argument, maybe it is an argument that only a purist could understand. So you win the argument, you will and have torn me to pieces. But it doesn't change the reality of the situation. I am not going to say anymore because it would be pointless anyway. |
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