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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3044

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:22 am Reply with quote
Personally I think Surat has said some things I really questioned like how Gundam 00 (a mediocre series) had above average ratings because a series made 4 years before by completely different people was bad. I also really question if Gainax has really changed. I mean Gunbuster has tits as very prominent, and they started making Princess Maker in the early 90s.

Mike Toole is my god, I bought King Gainer because he gave it a good review. His return to making reviews for Anime Jump is a moment of celebration.

Please tell me that the RK OVA was Trust and Betrayal and not the POS Reflections.


Last edited by Charred Knight on Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:33 am; edited 2 times in total
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Penguin_Factory



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 709
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:26 am Reply with quote
Did anyone else see that Mike Tool and Daryl Surat were going to be on this and immediately think "best episode ever" in the Comic Book Guy voice?

Charred Knight wrote:
and how AWO once did a podcast about how Gainax has lost their way while ignoring that Gunbuster starred a main character whose tits where prominent, and how they made the Princess Maker series since the early 90s.


Princess Maker didn't detract from the good anime they made though, and while I haven't listened to the Gainax episode in awhile I recall that their main problem was that Gainax's new shows aren't very interesting to fans like them, not that they have fan-service.
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3044

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:31 am Reply with quote
Penguin_Factory wrote:

Charred Knight wrote:
and how AWO once did a podcast about how Gainax has lost their way while ignoring that Gunbuster starred a main character whose tits where prominent, and how they made the Princess Maker series since the early 90s.


Princess Maker didn't detract from the good anime they made though, and while I haven't listened to the Gainax episode in awhile I recall that their main problem was that Gainax's new shows aren't very interesting to fans like them, not that they have fan-service.


I was never impressed by Evangelion, it was incredibly hypocritical, Gunbuster's first episode was a cheesy 80's sports movie with tits. I just never really understood where this idea that Gainax was this group of people who where pioneers of good taste. They where pioneers in fanservice but never in good taste. If you want to blame anyone for the current culture of anime, you might want to place some of the blame on Gainax who made a fortune on crappy Asuka and Rei figures.

Gurren Lagann is probably one of the greatest super robot anime of all times, and only Imagawa has been able to make anime as awesome.

Guy Gardner and Booster Gold? Was the last time you read comics Superman's death?
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 6529
Location: IL

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:52 am Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
I just never really understood where this idea that Gainax was this group of people who where pioneers of good taste.

Well... their first work was what I consider the greatest homage to 20th century nerddom (Daicon IV), but that's not to say that everything they have made has been amazing. Still, they have an impressive body of work and have certainly made their mark on the industry.


Last edited by Megiddo on Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:01 am Reply with quote
Zac, I should point out that piracy is a huge problem in the video game industry. For all the sales of the Nintendo DS, no one really makes games for it (other than remakes) because it's so heavily pirated.

I think Golden Sun is the last major game to be released.

Also I have seen the streaming numbers using youtube outside of really the big hits like Naruto, Bleach, and FMA: Brotherhood none of them are really that impressive.

Oh good god the "Haruhi was succesful because of the fans so theirfore I should be able to download Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood for free". Nevermind the fact that Haruhi is basically the only series where that happened from, as Bandai Ent can attest.

I should point out that I began to buy products because I had an epiphany after I began to notice that the reason why games that are more niche are not being released is because they where more likely to pirate. I then went out and began buying either used copies or new copies if they where available of products such as the Super Robot Taisen games (the games that caused that epiphany)

I just bought the entire Heroic Age blu-ray for 26 dollars (tax and shipping included)

Oh hey, Mike Toole, and me agree on Brotherhood, just like every single anime his reviewed that I have seen. His the only reviewer that I have ever used to buy a series I knew nothing about (Overman King Gainer)
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v1cious



Joined: 31 Dec 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:47 am Reply with quote
I doubt Bittorrent numbers are down, because of streaming content. The reason is because everyone uses IRC now.
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Penguin_Factory



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 709
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:48 am Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
Zac, I should point out that piracy is a huge problem in the video game industry. For all the sales of the Nintendo DS, no one really makes games for it (other than remakes) because it's so heavily pirated.

I think Golden Sun is the last major game to be released.


I don't want to seem like I'm jumping all over you in this thread, but have you actually looked at the lineup of DS releases lately? There are tons of original games coming out for the thing from Nintendo alone.

Although you are of course correct that the DS is heavily pirated. It just hasn't had quite the effect you seem to be implying.

Quote:
Also I have seen the streaming numbers using youtube outside of really the big hits like Naruto, Bleach, and FMA: Brotherhood none of them are really that impressive.


Seriously? That's depressing Sad

I hope someone figures out how to make streaming profitable soon.
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:06 am Reply with quote
Penguin_Factory wrote:
Charred Knight wrote:
Zac, I should point out that piracy is a huge problem in the video game industry. For all the sales of the Nintendo DS, no one really makes games for it (other than remakes) because it's so heavily pirated.

I think Golden Sun is the last major game to be released.


I don't want to seem like I'm jumping all over you in this thread, but have you actually looked at the lineup of DS releases lately? There are tons of original games coming out for the thing from Nintendo alone.

Although you are of course correct that the DS is heavily pirated. It just hasn't had quite the effect you seem to be implying.

Quote:
Also I have seen the streaming numbers using youtube outside of really the big hits like Naruto, Bleach, and FMA: Brotherhood none of them are really that impressive.


Seriously? That's depressing Sad

I hope someone figures out how to make streaming profitable soon.


Well here's some numbers youtube has Sengoku Basara 1 as 13,000, the second episode only has 6,000 their isn't a Brotherhood episode that doesn't have an episode below 20,000
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yamiangie



Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 417

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:13 am Reply with quote
at the tail end you guys make a good point that streaming can go down at any time.

I have no clue what type of fan I am anymore. I think I'm at the point of transition form only paying attention to the American end of things to wanting to know the history and the behind the scenes overseas.

I have never really thought about how fractured our tastes in anime have become.
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ChocoBar



Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:59 am Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
Penguin_Factory wrote:

Charred Knight wrote:
and how AWO once did a podcast about how Gainax has lost their way while ignoring that Gunbuster starred a main character whose tits where prominent, and how they made the Princess Maker series since the early 90s.


Princess Maker didn't detract from the good anime they made though, and while I haven't listened to the Gainax episode in awhile I recall that their main problem was that Gainax's new shows aren't very interesting to fans like them, not that they have fan-service.


I was never impressed by Evangelion, it was incredibly hypocritical, Gunbuster's first episode was a cheesy 80's sports movie with tits. I just never really understood where this idea that Gainax was this group of people who where pioneers of good taste. They where pioneers in fanservice but never in good taste. If you want to blame anyone for the current culture of anime, you might want to place some of the blame on Gainax who made a fortune on crappy Asuka and Rei figures.

Gurren Lagann is probably one of the greatest super robot anime of all times, and only Imagawa has been able to make anime as awesome.

Guy Gardner and Booster Gold? Was the last time you read comics Superman's death?

This is irony right here folks, no surprise coming from you Charred Knight Rolling Eyes
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:01 am Reply with quote
I don't think Evangelion has lost fans so much as I think a lot of its credibilty in America was based on the idea that it was some insanely deep show where every single frame had some meaning to it. Where you basically argued everything about the show: who killed that guy, is the leader of Seele the Wandering Jew, was Pen-Pen a former assassin? That type of thing.

Then the assistant Director came out and said that all the religious references where completely meaningless as they just thought it looked cool.

After that you still had this show about a boy trying to conquer his demons but it lost it's aura that it had about 7-9 years ago. Nobody outside of Eva forums really debates it and all the mysteries have basically been solved.
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rhetoricalnoise



Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 41
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:03 am Reply with quote
Good discussion on why some people react so strongly and negatively when the creators responsible for the media they so voraciously consume come out and express concern over their work being pirated. In thinking about this issue and trying to be honest with myself I realized that I'm guilty of having the same bitter entitlement attitude when I was younger.

Justin mentioned that when he was a teenager anime served as a very attractive form of escapism. When I was around the same age I was discovering rock music for the first time which also held a very strong hold over me and was a big part of the identity I was trying to build for myself. Whenever I had the chance I would purchase CDs with my limited income, but chiefly I was riding that early wave of peer-to-peer mp3 sharing and using Napster. Does anyone remember the fiasco with Napster and Metallica? When I was younger that situation had me burning with righteous indignation. At that age I really didn't give much consideration to whether or not anyone had the right to object to their work being pirated, I was just concerned that this source of personal happiness was being threatened. My perspective changed dramatically as I grew older and I develop a greater sense of awareness beyond my private little world. Having gainful employment certainly didn't hurt either.

So I'm going to argue that *age* is the biggest factor in the behavior and attitudes we're seeing. It's no secret that the average age of the Western anime fan has dropped significantly in the last ten years. We have a lot of teenagers getting into this hobby. I'm not sure if yelling at them will change anything. Hopefully with time they will also naturally develop into rational human beings.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 6466
Location: Penguinopolis

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:06 am Reply with quote
If I may venture a guess, Charred Knight probably enjoys how relatively straight-forward Gurren Lagann is, very unpretentious, not trying to wring your mind. It has complexities that it doesn't cover in worthless symbols and vague community moralizing, the way Evangelion often does. Again, this is just my guess. Charred Knight and I obviously have different tastes (I do like GL, though.)

To me, Evangelion is the superior show because of how it doesn't pull punches as far as how far it's willing to go to make the audience feel as uncomfortable as its characters, to experience (and quite intentionally, I contend) the same awkward lack of communication Shinji and the others are experiencing. It can get a little too alienating, however, from what I've been told. It's not everyone's cup of tea.

I would argue, however, that while the religious symbols are meaningless in a Christian sense, it doesn't entirely mean they're entirely meaningless within the context of the show. Because you put some being on a cross, doesn't mean they are Jesus, but could mean something other than that (I am not, however, implying Lilith is any such thing, I'm using it as an example).

Having Zac, Justin, Mike Toole, and Daryl Surat in the same podcast is like having a Knights of the Round to me. These are the guys that I respect the most in the anime fandom. I cannot understate how much awesome has been concentrated in one place this week. I'm fanboyish about this.
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v1cious



Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 5058
Location: Fresno, TX

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:22 am Reply with quote
The Evangelion thing just brought up an interesting question: There's a ton of product still on the shelf, but as of the moment no company here owns the series... so who gets the money?
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SoandSo



Joined: 13 Feb 2010
Posts: 204

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:27 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Zac, I should point out that piracy is a huge problem in the video game industry. For all the sales of the Nintendo DS, no one really makes games for it (other than remakes) because it's so heavily pirated.


Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

What?



I think there's a certain percentage of fans who stream and watch a lot of subs, myself included, for a sort of "try before you buy" approach. Walking into a video store's anime section can be overwhelming. There's sooo much product out there, quite a lot of it bad, that people who don't make the greatest incomes want to make informed decisions on what they spend their hard-earned cash on, and with so little anime airing on television, streaming can be one of the only options(shopping smart certainely helps, too). For me, it's proven quite effective; I stumble on something that really resonates with me through online viewing, and in turn, I go out and buy the box set or what have you so I can own and view it as many times as I want. I've watched the entirety of my Rahxephon boxset about nine times now, Escaflowne and Planetes five.
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