×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
ANNCast - The League of Extraordinary Supernerds


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Gasero



Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Posts: 939
Location: USA
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:34 pm Reply with quote
I was once a young lad like many other anime fans today. I, however, never had the sense of entitlement that they do when it comes to piracy.

When I was first made aware of piracy, I immediately went out and found emulators so that I could play some of my favorite Sega, NES, and SNES games. I also made copies of my PS1 games for emulation and downloaded a few Arcade roms. During this whole process however, I knew it was illegal, and I knew I was wrong.

My justification was that companies were no longer making money on those old properties. I mean, how much money does Nintendo and Capcom lose if I download a Megaman X2 rom?

I used the same rationale when it came to anime. I watched anime on TV and DVD until I was 16 years old. Suddenly I lost interest in collecting individual DVDs for a series. Then, Toonami dropped One Piece and Naruto out of rotation. What was I to do? Well, I wasn't going to wait for the DVDs, so I just went ahead and started downloading shows. In the process I found out there was a whole world of anime out there that was not being released in the USA. As I said before, they weren't on TV and the DVD did not satisfy my need so I downloaded them.

It wasn't until recently when One Piece, Naruto, and Bleach all came to streaming that I stopped and instantly picked up the official streams. It saddens me to hear that people still download fansubs even though there are official streaming sources for popular shows now. Basically, the industry should just do its best to keep up before it loses more money than it can use to invest in innovative tech. Online manga now please. Use it before you lose it (more than you already have).

PS: To answer Sevakas's question. I watch anime because the characters are way cooler than Western cartoon characters. The coolest we have over here is Batman. Over there I can choose from plenty of characters in shonen anime. Even though most shonen shows are hackneyed, I would much rather see bankai in action than cheesy fights where the hero always saves the day with little violence. Not to say that there aren't some cool Western cartoons - there is a good amount - but on average anime is cooler.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Zade



Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 79
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:39 pm Reply with quote
You think internet adds>print adds? Hah, have you heard of ad-blocker?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
einhorn303



Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 1180
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:42 pm Reply with quote
I'm a member of the "other fandom" Zac perceptively describes, but I think his description of it is a bit stereotyped. My highest rated show is Gunbuster, which came out in the 80's. And I don't see anime as a disposable product, like he assumes all do. I've rewatched Clannad and Marimite over and over again.

I think otaku anime is actually lot more conducive to repeat viewings. It's like the Type A and Type B fans that 2ch has categorized: Type A fans like anime for it's story, while Type B fans like anime for the characters. A story loses it's impact with repeated viewings, because the story's novelty wears out. Otaku anime, however, is all about communing with the characters and escaping to the world the anime conjures up. That experience just becomes richer and richer with time, as you invest more personal emotion in the characters and setting.

Or to put it more anecdotally: I love Kotomi Ichinose. Therefore, I can watch Kotomi's arc (episodes 10-14) over and over again without getting bored, because each rewatch I get to spend more time with Kotomi.

On another note, say what you want about the greying of SF cons, but at least they actually have a mature attendance base which makes them actually pleasant experiences. Just comparing Anime Boston and Boskone: there is a level of maturity and intellectual sophistication in the SF con that Anime Boston couldn't hope to match.

And it's so fun going to an SF con panel and being, at 22, the youngest person in the room.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:42 pm Reply with quote
Tanteikingdomkey wrote:
5 rules to fansub/ scantalations


To what extent are these rules wishes rather than rules?

Quote:
Rule 1 never do something that is officially licensed in the US


Since nothing can be "unreleased", what series are actually eligible? And since the unreleased stuff pads out the back catalog of the bootleg streaming sites, fansubbing the unlicensed stuff increases the competitive advantage of the bootleg streaming sites over legit sites.

Quote:
Rule 2 Support all official uncut releases when they are released in your region, aka don't abuse the subtitles they are not a offical release


The dubious nature of the "uncut" qualifier has been already pointed out ... but also, what does "support" mean. What difference does it make whether its released in your region in particular? Every fansub gets uploaded to bootleg streaming sites, so every fansub is made available in every region.

Quote:
Rule 3 encourage others to check out the show legally if possible and get them to support the official releases if they are liscensed in your region


This is "encourage in word, discourage in deed". The collectors do not need encouragement, those who need encouragement are more likely to be "watch once" viewers, and once they've watched the fansub, they'll not need to watch the legit release.

Quote:
Rule 4 DON'T POST fan subs on sites!


It makes no real difference whether you post them or release them and someone else posts them ... they are still up. Unless the fansub group actively patrols the sub streaming sites and reports the original host link the streaming site uses to the official rights owner, how is the rule going to be enforced?

Quote:
Rule 5 If the show is licensed in your region DON'T TELL THE MANGAKA that you are illegally watching/reading THEIR show.
This is not a fansub rule but a bootleg viewer rule: if you are going to be a useless freeloader parasite, for crying out loud keep your head down. Aggravating the creator of the stuff you are ripping off is adding insult to injury.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
fuuma_monou



Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 1816
Location: Quezon City, Philippines
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:51 pm Reply with quote
Zade wrote:
Create a device that reads retinas (already done) and join it with a monitor+headset and then transmit your mediums only through those devices.


Sounds like a legal nightmare with regards to privacy.

Quote:
Encode specific streams for each device so if anyone DOES break the loophole then you can immediate fine and disconnect that specific device pending research into the incident.


Sort of how Microsoft locks out modified Xbox 360s from Xbox Live? That could work. Don't see why the retina scanning is necessary.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
eyevocal



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 137
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:56 pm Reply with quote
ADV only ever made two Holiday Edition collections--Chrono Crusade (the one with the cheesoid Xmas pic of Chrono and Azmaria w/ Rosette hand puppet on the cover) and Evangelion (standard pic of Shinji and Rei w/ EVA-01 in the background on the cover; nothing Xmassy). The most desirable aspect of these was that they were collections of the original single DVDs, not the Thinpak versions with the on-disc extras removed (not all of these had that happen, but most did). The Stripbox was something that ADV pulled that I despised them for; corngraduations, Head of Marketing Mike Bailiff, you are officially an Enemy of Anime for that whale-sized dick move. In my opinion, while it was the Sojitz situation that tanked them, it was the karma from said move that caused it to hit them in the first place.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Redd the Sock



Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 55
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:07 am Reply with quote
Loved the show. My favorite anime commentators all in one place discusing one of my favorite topics.

I know you tried to find a deep seated reason for all this, but I really do think it comes down to people bein entitled jerks most of the time. It isn't even just for entertainment. Zac, I recall you mentioning an interest in politics, and you can't sem to get through a day or two without seeing the left or the right somehow trying to weasel out of their own rules and standards. We're a society that thinks the rule to follow isn't based on any particular value system, but on what benefits us now at the time.

OF course few of us even want to beleive we're amoral people so the rationalizations kick in. At one point they were somewhat justified (anyone else remember $50 Ranma tapes years after release), but as anime is far more affordible and available the rational reasons fall apart, so we turn to the less rational ones like ignoring the ecconomic news we hear about the industry (fat cats) or dismissing intelectual copyright as a concept. I've seen more than a few people argue that it is the duty of the business to find a workable business model that involves giving the product away to the end consumer. It's nuts. In fairness, the stories of the potential of the internet haven't helped. It's hard not to to argue for free, ad supported media for everything if you're a customer. If you're a vender, not so much. And again, the "star" problem persists. How many sites are failing or just staying afloat for every one facebook mega success? Maybe the reality show should be on the production of a popular website.

But then, when you get to people making rationalizatons, education goes in one ear and out the other. Back to politics, the other side is always biased: the liberal media or Fox news. No one can have a different opinion than you do so they're just pushing some agenda. I'm not saying it's a bad idea (in fact I'd find reality shows on such subjects facinating) but I'm not sure how many heads you'd crack. I mean, just the making ofs on DVDs should have shown people the work going into making even a bad movie, yet piracy continues.

I'll admit, I have no answer, just a lot of lost faith in humanity sometimes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
LordRedhand



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 1472
Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:26 am Reply with quote
einhorn303 stories demand constant retelling and re-watching, why? Because as a story they are a complete argument.. in the philosophical use of the word i.e. they have premises that lead to conclusions. (Why Arjuna fails as a series even if one could find the concept or characters interesting as an example, because it fails to be a complete argument.) Often they will have points and counter points, making the presentation and argument fuller. Like a dissertation that lays out it's premises but also tries answer rebuttals and counter philosophies. Add that sometimes a story is presenting a case or argument and while being valid is not presenting every premise, these are missing premises.

Having interesting characters is all well and good but if they don't mean anything well they are like Twinkie the Kid frankly. There needs to be a story there else it's just meaningless fluff.

Somethings to help:

Joeseph Campbell's A Hero of A Thousand Faces, where The Monomyth structure which pretty much every story follows is presented in that work. (With really a big influence on every Fantasy, Sci-Fi and most fiction, yes even something like "Cast Away")

And the Eight Character Roles. http://timstout.wordpress.com/coffee-4-crit/eight-character-roles/ Note that it can be a group or a thing (That Fed-Ex package with the angel on it is totally a sidekick)
Every story will have them and requires them. Some stories will have multiple full complete stories happening within them, all following the Monomyth, you may need to have multiple viewings just to fully see and grasp all of them.

So to answer Justin's question I watch for stories so that I can keep my mind sharp as it where as well as using anime and other media as inspiration for the games I run and to understand the construction better to make my "communal/group" storytelling efforts if not better, at least gripping.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Almaz



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 134
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:15 am Reply with quote
Got through the show just now. Boy was it long. I thought it was a great podcast.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
shamisen the great



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 658
Location: Oregon, USA
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:29 am Reply with quote
Looking forward to the podcast. I'm currently saving up podcasts for a plane ride in a couple of weeks, so I'll have to wait for now.

I noticed a couple of comments saying Gundam 00 didn't do that well. This surprise me, because so far it is the best Gundam I've seen. I haven't finished season 2 yet, so maybe it has a terrible ending. Was the show not recieved well in Japan by older Gundam fans?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
G00st543



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:44 am Reply with quote
I go into this without really offering any solutions. I'm not entirely sure how it would work if it were implemented, and because of this, my question is very brief, and will likely be ignored.

However, I still feel the need to ask: is there anything that can be done to make things cheaper/more streamlined on the PRODUCTION side, where the issues and difficulty are?

New ways of producing manga and anime that would be able to produce the desired result with less effort? Kind of like what tweening did for flash animation.

Obviously, people don't usually want a cheapened/rushed product, but is there really no way of lifting some of the load off of the backs of creators?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ZakuAce



Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Posts: 525
Location: SE Wisconsin
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:03 am Reply with quote
jsevakis wrote:
EDIT: Zac ended the "Crazy argument w/ PetrifiedJellow" thing before I could. And thank god for that.

To start another line of conversation tho, I'm curious... If you (anybody here) were to psychoanalyze yourself and your relationship with the anime content itself, what about it exactly causes the positive response? What aspect of its fantasy fits into your life, or fills a need for you? Why do you respond to it more than other art forms?


Anime used to be an escapist thing for me. I remember the days when I first watched .hack//sign and Gundam Wing and thought to myself, "Wouldn't it be amazing if that was me? I wish that was me!" And that's what really drew me into anime - the thought that I could somehow be Duo Maxwell or Tsukasa. But things have changed. As I've gotten older, it has become just another extension of entertainment. I see anime that I like, just as I still see live action shows I like (Sons of Anarchy, Breaking Bad (if I could ever remember to watch it)). There just seems to be more anime that I like compared to live action. One thing hasn't changed, though. For me, it does still have the cool factor it had back when I first saw it on Toonami. Maybe it's because I'm a pretty casual fan and haven't burned out on anything yet, but the feeling that "this is different" is still there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Frazmataz



Joined: 30 May 2010
Posts: 103
Location: Sheffield, UK
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:23 am Reply with quote
Great podcast guys Smile It's always good to have Mike Toole on, and Daryl too.

In answer to Justin's question, I suppose what makes me respond to anime is a combination of the artwork and the sensibilities of the japanese creators who make it. I can't help but think back to the Tim Eldred ANNcast, where you guys discussed how Japan's 'Immortality bubble' burst with the loss of World War II, and how that affected the people who went on the create the industry. I believe that this totally unique perspective on the part of the anime pioneers has resulted in a totally unique art form, and that is probably why most fans responded to anime in this first place. Anime has a level of maturity, and a level of versatility that is more or less absent in the majority of western animation - You can find anime for pretty much any genre, age group or subject matter, whereas most western cartoons seem to be either kids' aventure/superhero shows or comedy/spoof shows (obviously there will be exceptions). Herein lies the attractiveness of anime for me, and I suspect for a lot of other people too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bayoab



Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 831
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:18 am Reply with quote
G00st543 wrote:
However, I still feel the need to ask: is there anything that can be done to make things cheaper/more streamlined on the PRODUCTION side, where the issues and difficulty are?

The answer to this is yes but results in the counter question of: At what point does it become unwatchable? They can even further cut corners, but do you really want to watch that?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jsc315



Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 925
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:49 am Reply with quote
Anime World Order wrote:
During the recording, Justin had asked whether there was perhaps a "filler-free" viewing list one could use for the original Fist of the North Star TV series. While some of the lamer things added just for the anime are simply unavoidable due to the nature of the TV adaptation, I looked over the episode titles--that's the beauty of shonen fighting shows, you can tell what happens in them just from the title!--and determined the following:

The admittedly convoluted option: watch episodes 1-8, 11-13, 22-37, 39-108 (skip the recap episodes if you wish). That more or less sticks to what happened in the manga such that you don't really skip past anything, and it's what I would recommend people do besides just reading the comics. Still, perhaps you want to cut to the chase.
Wow i pre ordered Fist of the north star and paid $55 and its $35 now? If i would have know it would have dropped in price so fast i would have just waited a few weeks.
The simplest, shortest option: if you just want to skip to the point where events of the manga started to pick up, which for most shonen action/adventure series is marked by the introduction of the primary series antagonist, you COULD just skip straight to episode 41. It's a 2/3 recap episode that quickly summarizes everything of significance that has happened to that point: who the hero is, how he met his friends, and what the current situation is. Then just watch through to episode 108 and end it there. You might want to skip episodes 78-82 since all of those are recap episodes. Yep, Fist of the North Star did a whopping FIVE recap episodes in a row but unlike Wolf's Rain, they each recapped different things. I personally wouldn't recommend this option since I happen to like some of those earlier episodes, and perhaps the reason the reason these stories "pick up" once the true villain shows up is that you have a chance to know the lead characters first. Still, even this "shortened" list makes for a 60+ episode undertaking.

Regardless of your option, it's a LOT of old-looking silly cartoons to watch. But it's all online, free to watch via streaming players at Hulu, FUNimation, ANN, and so on. But as I said, there's no telling if someday in the future Toei will change their mind on that, so if you find yourself enjoying it you might want to spring for the DVD collections. $36 for 36 episodes, the very embodiment of the "a dollar per episode" price point I alluded to in the episode.


Wow! I spent $55 on this because i was so excited for Fist of the north star to come out. If I would have known it would have dropped in price so dramatically I would have easily waited a few weeks. Usually it takes a while for such a huge discount like this. I guess its not doing great. :/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Page 6 of 9

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group