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Hey, Answerman! - Personality Disorder


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prime_pm



Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 2078
Location: Your Mother's Bedroom
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:51 pm Reply with quote
You know, I wonder if there are Japanese people arguing over licenses and scanlations of American comics right now.

"I will rather let the marvel industry die"
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vashfanatic



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 3456
Location: Back stateside
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:42 pm Reply with quote
WolfLoner wrote:
no offense but i will rather let the manga industry die.

Why, hello, I take it you run such a site? Look, even a teensy slim profit is still a profit -- and on illegal material, that is unacceptable. You start running advertisement and I have no way of knowing whether you break even, make a profit, etc. I just do not trust sites to accurately represent themselves.

Oh, I will not let the industry die, because I like my manga in book form. You do anything to harm it, I will not help you.

Anyway Brian, thanks for italicizing. Laughing

And as for previewing stuff before hand... well let's see, there's libraries, renting, streaming, borrowing from other people, and yes, if worst comes to worst, getting fansubs or scanlations -- but don't keep them! If everyone used fansubs responsibly as previews it would do no harm to the industry; the problem is when people use them as a substitute for supporting legal means. Like I said, I read 20th Century Boys in scanlation, and it convinced me to buy the series. But I don't have the scanlations now that I've got the books.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:43 pm Reply with quote
What's that you say?!

WolfLoner wrote:

no offense but i will rather get banned.


Why, today's your lucky day, my lad!
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prime_pm



Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 2078
Location: Your Mother's Bedroom
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:56 pm Reply with quote
Maybe next time you won't denounce the state of a particular commerce without using proper conditional sentences!
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bonfire123



Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 16
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:13 pm Reply with quote
I'm not going to try to justify fansubs. This is just food for thought

I love many american shows like family guy, south park, the office, american dad, ect... but I don't ever buy the dvd sets for these shows because I can watch them on my t.v.

with anime, the pickings are extremely slim as to what can be found on an american television channel while japanese people have much more lucrative options in this respect.

see where I'm going with this?

should we pay for products simply because we live in a cetain country. lets even think of the reverse. should japanese people be forced to buy dvd sets for family guy, south park, ect.. because their stations don't (I assume) air them?

ok, the question is out there. let the discussion begin Very Happy
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gingi789



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 56
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:31 pm Reply with quote
Answerman:
Quote:
But how the hell do you get people who seem to have no problem at all with outright thieving the stuff that they claim to love? The US anime companies have had a few solutions to that problem that seem to have worked, what with simulcasting streaming episodes and such, but that's not the entirety of it.

Anime companies can always do more, and they should do more, to keep themselves afloat in the murky waters of this industry. Nobody's arguing against this, at all. Not the least of which are the anime companies themselves, as they've said and proven to their fans time and time again. (At least, the ones that are still around.) That still doesn't quite address the bigger problem - that we have a core component of so-called "fans" that would rather find the latest OneManga replacement that has lurched forth from the dark corners of the internet than simply bother to spend roughly ten US dollars on a volume of Bleach.


I have a question on this: what about things that aren't lisenced in the US? I have a decent collection of anime, and do support the industry, but for shows such as Bakemonogatari, Seitokai no Ichizon, or Asura Cryin, (i could find more), no US lisenceor has touched those. Are you saying that everyone who downloads isn't supporting the industry, and that we should skip those that aren't available streaming in some form or another? (I know Asura Cryin's available on crunchyroll-i was just using it to prove a point). I agree that people who just download without doing anything to support the industry are...well....(insert bleeped word), but there are some shows that I don't think will ever get touched.

Not to mention that, while i watch things streaming (in love with HSOTD right now Smile), i like things better on DVD. Case in point: Funimation licensed Baka to Test around 6 months to a year ago, but still haven't released it on DVD. Does this mean that they're going to just keep it streaming until the end of time? Very Happy I know this may sound odd, but if i like a show, i like having the DVD's so i can watch it whenever i want.(keep in mind that Funimation acquired Master of Martial Hearts about the same time, and wasted no time getting that out, even though it is total crap-in my own opinion). If so, what's the best way to get something like Bakemonogatari lisenced in the US? Obviously, buying the Japanese DVD's will be insanely expensive and coded for the wrong region. Smile And i do like the streaming content that's available on hulu, AN, and crunchyroll. I guess the question is, is that if you consider downloading stealing, then how do we get something that is available either by stream or download here in the US, where we're not considered theives for watching it?

I do like that the American companies are finally getting their act together and streaming anime when it's released in Japan. A lot of the series that I'm following right now (Asobi ni Ikuyo, Occult Academy, Bleach, Naruto, HSOTD, etc) I watch streaming, just because i know that it supports the industry rather than just downloading it.

Oh, and $9 for the latest volume of Bleach? Man, you're getting ripped off. You can get it for $5.96 on rightstuff (and that's not when it's on super sale Very Happy) But in that case, what about manga like Psyren? or the rest of Gunslinger Girls? i have the first 6 books-the rest was never lisenced by ADV. Even if we like the story, and it's not available in the US, and we buy other manga that we like and is available, do you still consider us to not be supporting the industry because we want to either a) read a good story that's not available in the US, or b) continue a story that no other lisenceor picked up? And there are manga that just cut off in mid-series (Alive: The Final Evolution comes to mind). What if I want to know the rest of the story?

Oh, and on a final note.....i will say that i love that Bandai, Media Works, Noizomi....it seems everyone but Funimation is still releasing extras with their DVD's. (like Bandai has the Code Geass and Gurren Lagen artboxes, Media Works has the Genshiken 2 artbox with T-Shirt, and Noizomi has the artbox and book that come with Rental Magica).....i think that a large portion of getting people to buy DVD's now instead of downloading them will be the nifty little extras that come with (for example: the Toradora! boxset came with sub only, but it came in a neat little artbox, and had a book with character profiles and episode outlines). I care less about whether a series is dubbed and more about what type of little collectors thing that comes with it. I think that it's sad that Funi skimps on that, and while i still buy series from them, having the little extras (even the Mini-ninja's that come with the Naruto boxes) make me more inclined to buy those first.
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Zade



Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 79
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:32 pm Reply with quote
Thank you for the short fan responses!! Keep it up!!
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YotaruVegeta



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 1050
Location: New York
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:10 pm Reply with quote
HURRDURR is a great non-word.

I think that a man who painted his face like a dog, probably with the intention of being cute and friendly turned out to be creepier than scantily dressed dudes in dumb masks dancing to a song that was 3 minutes too long.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:23 pm Reply with quote
bonfire123 wrote:
I'm not going to try to justify fansubs. This is just food for thought

I love many american shows like family guy, south park, the office, american dad, ect... but I don't ever buy the dvd sets for these shows because I can watch them on my t.v.


OK, now suppose that you are in a country where those series are not broadcast ... or at least the ones you most want to see. Well, then, you've got a different selection of stuff available to you for free. If you want free, pick from what you got available for free. If you want a wider selection, there'll be a wider selection available to those willing to pay.

Quote:
with anime, the pickings are extremely slim as to what can be found on an american television channel while japanese people have much more lucrative options in this respect.


But Americans have over half of the new Summer anime series available as free simulcasts from one source or another. And anyone who can watch a bootleg stream can watch a legit stream.

Quote:
should we pay for products simply because we live in a cetain country.


Yes, of course. If something is a small niche market in your country, you are less likely to see it on free to air television. I would not expect to see cricket on television in Chiba, Japan, or Cleveland, Ohio, USA ... I would not expect to see baseball on television in Newcastle, NSW, Australia or Allahabad, Utter Pradesh, India.

Quote:
lets even think of the reverse. should japanese people be forced to buy dvd sets for family guy, south park, ect.. because their stations don't (I assume) air them?


Obviously, if they want to see them, and there is enough demand to justify licensing them for Japanese distribution, they'd need DVD players to watch them, unless they are available by some form of ad-supported or subscriber internet streaming.
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YotaruVegeta



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 1050
Location: New York
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:28 pm Reply with quote
I'm SO glad that the excuses that fansub lovers cling to are fading away. It's good times.
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akoftroy



Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:39 pm Reply with quote
I see a lot of people saying stuff like:
"How can I buy something without seeing it?! I don't trust reviews or previews!"

If such a person exists, it makes me wonder how they decide which fansub to watch. If they are truly unaffected by any kind of advertising or recommendation, wouldn't they be incapable of actually choosing a show to watch? Their argument is they aren't capable of thinking "oh, that looks good" until they've watched the whole thing, right? Or do they just watch things at random?

My favorite type of forum comment is:
"Yeah, that series sucked! I read all 188 chapters of it!"

People say they don't buy stuff because it's not good enough. But what idiot wastes hundreds of hours on stuff that "sucks"? If sales are down because everything is so bad, then why would these pirate sites get any viewers...?
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Imperialkat



Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 227
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:42 pm Reply with quote
bonfire123 wrote:
I'm not going to try to justify fansubs. This is just food for thought

I love many american shows like family guy, south park, the office, american dad, ect... but I don't ever buy the dvd sets for these shows because I can watch them on my t.v.

with anime, the pickings are extremely slim as to what can be found on an american television channel while japanese people have much more lucrative options in this respect.

see where I'm going with this?

should we pay for products simply because we live in a cetain country. lets even think of the reverse. should japanese people be forced to buy dvd sets for family guy, south park, ect.. because their stations don't (I assume) air them?

ok, the question is out there. let the discussion begin Very Happy


So, you're saying that the Japanese get to watch anime for free (essentially) on TV yet we are being forced to buy it on DVD. And that is unfair because we pay for stuff they got for free. I know I didn't get it dead on but am I in the ballpark?

The answer, I'm afraid, is yes. I'm sure that if anime pulled the ratings it used to we'd be able to get more on cable as well but sadly this isn't the case. So it's not a question of whether we can get (or even deserve) what the Japanese get, but what's the most cost-effective way for them to bring it to us at all.

Let's say there were three networks that each played substantial blocks of anime. You'd watch. I'd watch. Most of this forum would watch. But it wouldn't be enough. Plus, these blocks would be competing with each other for ratings (like anime does in Japan). There simply isn't enough of us to support this model.

In other words, in order to watch anime legally we either watch legal streams or buy the DVD. Just because the Japanese get to watch it for free doesn't mean we should expect the same.

And on the subject of DVDs, just because you don't buy a show that airs on cable doesn't mean there isn't a market for those DVDs. Likewise, anime in Japan eventually ends up on DVD. Of course, the Japanese have their own case of envy against us--our DVDs are a lot cheaper than theirs.

Another thing, most anime shows get shown on TV to promote DVD sales. But they also post ratings. Here, free streams struggle to break even. The free anime smorgasbord that the Japanese get on cable simply can't be supported here. So we watch the streams, buy the DVDs, or do without. We're not entitled to anything more.

(A word about entitlement: I'm saying that there is an anime market in the US because there are a lot of people who want it AND are willing to pay for it or at least watch it on TV (people forget that this generates revenue even if you yourself don't pay).)
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TheTheory



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: Central PA
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:03 pm Reply with quote
The response video to the flake is one of the creepiest things I have seen today. Holy crap.

I think I'm going to watch it again...

(Glory, glory... HOWL! le lu jah!)
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DuelLadyS



Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: WA state
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:25 pm Reply with quote
bonfire123 wrote:

should we pay for products simply because we live in a cetain country. lets even think of the reverse. should japanese people be forced to buy dvd sets for family guy, south park, ect.. because their stations don't (I assume) air them?

ok, the question is out there. let the discussion begin Very Happy


Well... yes. If they desire to reach outside of their home area's typical offerings for something a little different, a little more 'niche' compared to what others watch, I think it is fair to put a little money toward those who took the risk- and the cost- to bring it to them in a relatively easy-to-come by and use form.

Also, for the most part, TV is NOT free. I don't know about you, but I recently got to spend a week getting TV free, straight from the airwaves... and I can tell you right now that 3 static-laden channels is not the best entertainment. You pay for cable to get a good picture and channels that air the TV you want- like Comedy Central to get South Park.

If TV is not airing the shows I want, I buy the DVDs- I get a great picture, no commericals, no editing to run in the time alotted and for content, and I can watch it whenever I want... even when the cable's not hooked up. That holds true for DVDs in any country.
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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 2707
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:04 am Reply with quote
bonfire123 wrote:
with anime, the pickings are extremely slim as to what can be found on an american television channel while japanese people have much more lucrative options in this respect.

see where I'm going with this?

"I want all the stuff I get where I live & I want all your stuff"

We had a fairly popular local radio show. People were always saying stuff like they missed the show so much since they moved out of the area or when they got shipped off to Iraq. Some would actually record the show & send it to the servicemen (which the show didn't mind because like much of San Diego, they support the troops). The show did the streaming on the radio so lots of former listeners got to listen again-yeah!

See where I'm going with this?

The Station they worked at (Clearchannel) decided to save a buck & took them off the air at the end of 2009 so NONE of us could listen to them. They had been on over a decade & were like the #1 show.

Did you expect that?

Actually a smaller station has just brought them back, but they're missing one of their crew (apparently contractual. She might be on later)
Yes it sucks when stuff gets cancelled, but just as often it gets cancelled in Japan. As wonderful as 12 Kingdoms was, it had the run shorted by the Japanese station.

{MOD EDIT -- 2 PARAGRAPHS EXPUNGED: No, just no. I don't care if you're an agnostic, an atheist, a buddhist or a follower of the One True Church of the Three Stooges. I just don't care. But I do care if you start putting words into the mouth of Jesus, Buddha or Larry, Curly and Moe -- and using those faux opinions to support your own prejudices. That way lies pointless acrimony, and we just can't have that. So I'll call that off-topic, and if you do it again, I'll call it trolling. -- abunai}

I would love it if fansubs vanished tomorrow because the honor system obviously isn't working when people gloat every day only stupid people pay for anime. I know licensed titles are up & being watched & read all the time. In a way, fansubs are also part of the whole dumbing-down/collapse of society because it seems as though the majority of fansub users lack the ability to make a critical decision without fully trying out the product. No longer can we know what to do until we try every option out to its full extent.
But we all have to make our own choice.
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