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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 2707
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:58 pm Reply with quote
gingi-
I meant the fans who are telling these artists they're stealing their stuff. In fact, considering how many are popping up saying stuff about it, I don't doubt some fans will decide the artists are making the texts/posts/whatever up just to voice their opinions but I saw for myself just how stupid these fans are when one asked a Viz panel at Comic-Con years back why they were just releasing the first or 2nd InuYasha movie when she'd already downloaded & watched the latest one from Japan? There was an audible gasp from most of the panel & about a minute later someone finally got their wits about them & said please do not illegally access their Japanese partners (I believe one was at the panel). It's tactless at best & really rather rude to tell the creator of the item you got it without paying for it, but it shows just how far things have come that the people doing it see no reason to hide.

It had nothing to do with your insistance you will not support the licensed version out of fear it might get cancelled. That borders on self-fulfilling prophesy (You don't buy it because you believe it will get cancelled but enough people hold that belief so it does get cancelled.) It is your right, but on the other hand in that instance I would say you don't have a leg to stand on-it's stealing to read the fansub & not buy the licensed version.
Nothing in this world is certain. Any one of us could have a plane crash down on top of us, or get buried in an earthquake of taken out in any other acts of man or nature. The author of the story you love so much might decide to take a break & never go back. Projects are announced by entertainers all the time that get dropped. I've been refunded tickets the band cancelled the tour for.

By my book, Onemanga, Mangafox, etc should not have existed in the first place, so yeah, it's nice at least one of them stopped their illegal activities(bootlegging?) finally after making what everyone believes was a nice amount of money.

You do not have the right to possess any japanese anime or manga unless it has been licensed for sale in your area. To possess a "rare" object not normally available in your area, one should be expected to spend a certain amount of time & money acquiring that exotic item. That might include purchasing a player that plays the dvds of a different region. There was a time when collecting rare items was assumed to be rather expensive which in turn made those items even more precious to the collector.

Quote:
last blind buy was Divergeance Eve.

Quote:
Speed Grapher

Takehito Koyasu was in both those titles. He's my favorite VA & he is incredible. Do I buy everything he's in? No. Who can afford that considering he's the most prolific VA in Japan according to this website & all his stuff isn't licensed. However, I check his listing here regularly so I can start paying attention to reviews & comments on titles he's in so that when & if the title IS licensed, I know at what stage I want to buy it-up front first price the licensee offers or wait for a later, cheaper price. I actually rented Speed Grapher toi try to gauge how big his role was (1 dvd actually but it was excellent) so I waited for the cheap box because the title didn't do anything for me otherwise. Once I bought it, I discovered Toshiyuki Morikawa put in a good performance also. Divergeance Eve I got on one of those 25 dvds for $100 so it cost me a whole $12 which Koyasu's performance was easily worth. Because of Koyasu I have checked out & bought such titles as Samurai Deeper Kyo, 12 Kingdoms, Gungrave, To Love-Ru, Sgt Frog, Gatekeepers, Papuwa, Kaleido Star & Zone of Enders. I would certainly not have bothered with Gundam (I swore I'd never watch mecha) were it not for Gundam Wing & Zechs. Katsuyuki Konishi from SDK & Shaman King (Koyasu title) was the reason I scoped out Shonen Onmyoji. Souichiro Hoshi & Akira Ishida have tipped the scales also on titles because I know even if the story is a mess or the dub reeks, at least I will get an impressive performance on the subtitled side.
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edzieba



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 704
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:04 pm Reply with quote
YotaruVegeta wrote:
edzieba, I wonder if someone took digital content, then sold that content you would then consider that theft.
No, I would consider that piracy.

As for case law:
"interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud. The Copyright Act even employs a separate term of art to define one who misappropriates a copyright: ... 'an infringer of the copyright.' ... [...] Since the statutorily defined property rights of a copyright holder have a character distinct from the possessory interest of the owner of simple "goods, wares, [or] merchandise," interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud. The infringer of a copyright does not assume physical control over the copyright nor wholly deprive its owner of its use. Infringement implicates a more complex set of property interests than does run-of-the-mill theft, conversion, or fraud."
—Dowling v. United States, 473 U.S. 207
LordRedhand wrote:
No case law you say edzieba? How about MGM vs. Grokster? http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/04-480.ZC1.html

Relevant point: Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer "Deliberate unlawful copying is no less an unlawful taking of property than garden-variety theft."
Note that the articles cited immediately after that statement, 18 U.S.C. § 2319, §1961 and §1956, either make no mention of theft (in the case of "§2319. Criminal infringement of a copyright"), or specifically separate theft and criminal copyright infringement.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:08 pm Reply with quote
CCSYueh wrote:
It had nothing to do with your insistance you will not support the licensed version out of fear it might get cancelled. That borders on self-fulfilling prophesy (You don't buy it because you believe it will get cancelled but enough people hold that belief so it does get cancelled.)


Indeed, someone who started buying a series that was cancelled would have a much strong case for reading scanlations of the balance of the series than someone who supported the piracy "because it might be" cancelled ... the first person did what they could do to keep the series running, and its just that not enough other people followed suit. The second person helped ensure that the series had to be dropped.

And justifying watching bootlegs because a series "might be" dropped is, indeed, a really grotesque excuse, precisely because if its being pirated while the series is being printed, obviously there will be scanlations available in the event that the series has to be dropped.

And further, nobody knows what the future will bring ... it may be that next year or the year after that, no series will have to be completely dropped, but instead will shift to legit digital distribution if the print sales do not support a print run.
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YotaruVegeta



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 1050
Location: New York
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:39 pm Reply with quote
Alright, alright. Copying digital files are not theft. So, basically unrelated to this argument, what if I copy a file from your computer that you created, then delete the original? Theft, or not?
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Zin5ki
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 6680
Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:58 pm Reply with quote
edzieba wrote:
2) Those who would only buy the physical product if they have downloaded it.
3) Those who would only buy the physical product if they had not downloaded it

If I may make such an assumption, one presumes the habits of these two sorts cause a fair few industrial problems. For the former, exposure to illegal content is required for them to contribute to the industry, as has been stipulated, whereas such exposure must be avoided in the case of the latter persons if they are to do the same. As you have noted, one cannot presume how sizeable such "potentially-useful" subsets of the collective fandom are. (Characteristically of me, I'd propose geography to be relevant to this matter.)

Short of a solution that fails to respect the rights of authors and copyright holders, one can only presume a greater degree of legal online access will satisfy both these parties without also facilitating the practices of those who never purchase. Although it remains to be seen how such improvements will inhibit the desire to consume fansubs amongst "potentially paying" audiences, one predicts it will be unlikely that these advances will grant easier legal access to titles currently unlikely to receive English-language releases.

As regards such titles, some simply take exception to those who download (e.g.) Legend of the Galactic Heroes on account of its unavailability, though others remain less liberal in what they consider acceptable use. I do not share CCSYueh's beliefs on this matter, although I accept that her view is consistent with copyright law whereas mine is not.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:47 pm Reply with quote
YotaruVegeta wrote:
Alright, alright. Copying digital files are not theft. So, basically unrelated to this argument, what if I copy a file from your computer that you created, then delete the original? Theft, or not?


Copyright infringement (at least in almost all countries, since copyright exists on creation in both the Berne Convention and TRIPS) and vandalism.
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gingi789



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 56
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:03 pm Reply with quote
CCSYueh wrote:
gingi-
I meant the fans who are telling these artists they're stealing their stuff. In fact, considering how many are popping up saying stuff about it, I don't doubt some fans will decide the artists are making the texts/posts/whatever up just to voice their opinions but I saw for myself just how stupid these fans are when one asked a Viz panel at Comic-Con years back why they were just releasing the first or 2nd InuYasha movie when she'd already downloaded & watched the latest one from Japan? There was an audible gasp from most of the panel & about a minute later someone finally got their wits about them & said please do not illegally access their Japanese partners (I believe one was at the panel). It's tactless at best & really rather rude to tell the creator of the item you got it without paying for it, but it shows just how far things have come that the people doing it see no reason to hide.

It had nothing to do with your insistance you will not support the licensed version out of fear it might get cancelled. That borders on self-fulfilling prophesy (You don't buy it because you believe it will get cancelled but enough people hold that belief so it does get cancelled.) It is your right, but on the other hand in that instance I would say you don't have a leg to stand on-it's stealing to read the fansub & not buy the licensed version.
Nothing in this world is certain. Any one of us could have a plane crash down on top of us, or get buried in an earthquake of taken out in any other acts of man or nature. The author of the story you love so much might decide to take a break & never go back. Projects are announced by entertainers all the time that get dropped. I've been refunded tickets the band cancelled the tour for.

By my book, Onemanga, Mangafox, etc should not have existed in the first place, so yeah, it's nice at least one of them stopped their illegal activities(bootlegging?) finally after making what everyone believes was a nice amount of money.

You do not have the right to possess any japanese anime or manga unless it has been licensed for sale in your area. To possess a "rare" object not normally available in your area, one should be expected to spend a certain amount of time & money acquiring that exotic item. That might include purchasing a player that plays the dvds of a different region. There was a time when collecting rare items was assumed to be rather expensive which in turn made those items even more precious to the collector.

Quote:
last blind buy was Divergeance Eve.

Quote:
Speed Grapher

Takehito Koyasu was in both those titles. He's my favorite VA & he is incredible. Do I buy everything he's in? No. Who can afford that considering he's the most prolific VA in Japan according to this website & all his stuff isn't licensed. However, I check his listing here regularly so I can start paying attention to reviews & comments on titles he's in so that when & if the title IS licensed, I know at what stage I want to buy it-up front first price the licensee offers or wait for a later, cheaper price. I actually rented Speed Grapher toi try to gauge how big his role was (1 dvd actually but it was excellent) so I waited for the cheap box because the title didn't do anything for me otherwise. Once I bought it, I discovered Toshiyuki Morikawa put in a good performance also. Divergeance Eve I got on one of those 25 dvds for $100 so it cost me a whole $12 which Koyasu's performance was easily worth. Because of Koyasu I have checked out & bought such titles as Samurai Deeper Kyo, 12 Kingdoms, Gungrave, To Love-Ru, Sgt Frog, Gatekeepers, Papuwa, Kaleido Star & Zone of Enders. I would certainly not have bothered with Gundam (I swore I'd never watch mecha) were it not for Gundam Wing & Zechs. Katsuyuki Konishi from SDK & Shaman King (Koyasu title) was the reason I scoped out Shonen Onmyoji. Souichiro Hoshi & Akira Ishida have tipped the scales also on titles because I know even if the story is a mess or the dub reeks, at least I will get an impressive performance on the subtitled side.



Umm....either you didn't read my post, or you just chose to ignore the content. What i said was that will download something that isn't liscensed here until it is. I never said that i wouldn't buy stuff that hadn't been continued (Gunslinger Girl-the manga-and Alive: The Final Evolution as two examples-because i do own those titles). Nor did i say that i do not support licensed anime. Those are both your assumptions, and they're both wrong. I own Bamboo Blade: i also own Rental Magica. If you're going to refute my posts, please read them in the entirety instead of just saying "downloader! bad!" because you're incorrect on both counts.

So if you're arguing that onemanga and mangafox shouldn't have existed in the first place, what's your take on crunchyroll? It started as a place where they gathered illegal fansubs, and charged money for it. It's only been legit for about a year and a half or so. If mangafox has the library and the capacity to do so, then why couldn't it become a legal pay to view site? (keep in mind that scanlations have nowhere near the effect on manga as fansubs do on anime-most people who like to read manga like the tankoban).

You're really barking up the wrong tree, especially since the whole premise is that "fansubbers are killing the American anime market!" I don't watch fansubs of shows that are lisenced in the US; i buy the DVDs. Explain how someone who buys the licensed DVD's and manga in the US while trying to enjoy the ones that have not been licensed is part of the problem.

And for the last time- I never said that i don't support licensed shows out of fear that they might get cancelled. (you're talking to someone who bought all of Reaper, all of Farscape, and all of Dead Like Me, even though those shows all got cancelled, and a lot of story arcs didn't get finished). Don't say i did.
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Mikeski



Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 608
Location: Minneapolis, MN
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:02 pm Reply with quote
Sunday Silence wrote:
For one thing, don't label them as thieves.
Sunday Silence wrote:
If the product isn't available for purchase, a download isn't a lost sale.
The anime/manga I was interested in was not officially available in my native language/country. That's the only reason I downloaded the fansub/scanlation. Therefore, I shouldn't be called a "thief".

The sexual acts I was interested in were not something my wife was willing to perform. That's the only reason I have a mistress. Therefore, I shouldn't be called an "adulterer".

And, I'm quite sure, various Japanese online retailers have most such "product[s] [...] available for purchase", and thus downloading without also purchasing them is a lost sale. My inability to read Japanese is not an excuse, my living in DVD region 1 is not an excuse, the Japanese pricing model is not an excuse, and current US$-yen exchange rate is not an excuse.

edzieba wrote:
Mohawk52 wrote:
They take something that doesn't belong to them
Copyright infringement != theft. This is a very important distinction.
One man's "very important distinction" is another man's "obfuscating semantics." A lawyer might have to call it "copyright infringement" in court. The common folk would probably call someone who took something that didn't belong to them "a thief." I would...
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:44 pm Reply with quote
Mikeski wrote:
The common folk would probably call someone who took something that didn't belong to them "a thief." I would...


And the primary copyright infringement we are talking about does not start with a shoplifted manga. It starts with buying something for sale and then doing something with it that is not permitted, which is to make and distribute copies of it without permission of the creator.

Then someone else downloads the Japanese bootleg and does the scanlation, which is a derivative work, and distributes the art and the derivative work without permission, neither of which is allowed.

And then someone else uploads the scanlation into a free manga viewer site, sometimes with and sometimes without the translator's permission and never with the original creator's permission, when both are required to be allowed to do the upload.

And likely not a single taking of something that does not belong to them took place while millions of acts of copying without permission are taking place.

Calling copyright infringement theft then encourages someone to notice that the unlike theft, the publishers still have their original books available to sell ... what they are missing is rather the consumers, who have read the books for free online and don't need to buy the books anymore.
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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 2707
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:56 pm Reply with quote
YotaruVegeta wrote:
Alright, alright. Copying digital files are not theft. So, basically unrelated to this argument, what if I copy a file from your computer that you created, then delete the original? Theft, or not?


Not a lawyer.
I tell my clients they need to take their legal questions to a lawyer.
For myself, if you took a file off my computer & then deleted my copy, I'd want to be paid back in some way-to be "made whole" because that might be an important file.

Smoke & mirrors, dude.
You watch a video & you have consumed it. You read a book & you have consumed it. The original does still exist (thank god because there are some great classic movies made before I was ever born), but your use has been reduced or even eliminated.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:16 am Reply with quote
Mikeski wrote:
One man's "very important distinction" is another man's "obfuscating semantics."


The piracy defenders seem to hope that its a difference that gets them off the hook ...

... and it may be that insisting that it is theft fosters the feeling that its only wrong if its identical to theft ...

... but its a forlorn hope. Independent of the loose analogy to theft, its still (1) wrong to trample on the rights of creators of original works and (2) an action that fails to support the creation of more of the works being consumed.
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KAtchan15



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 460
Location: NYC
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:28 am Reply with quote
Quote:
you would enjoy something like this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PZwI-3xFtk


Internet=1, Vocaloids=0.

I enjoyed the video.

Quote:
Something that this video, for example, has.

I think I'm going to have nightmares about that particular video. It's horrendously creepy. I-I-I Shocked I don't even...

As far as the question goes, I'd probably give it 10-13 episodes if it's a 20+ episode anime. 5-7 If it's a 13-15 episode season.
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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 2707
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:08 am Reply with quote
gingi789 wrote:

Umm....either you didn't read my post, or you just chose to ignore the content. What i said was that will download something that isn't liscensed here until it is. I never said that i wouldn't buy stuff that hadn't been continued (Gunslinger Girl-the manga-and Alive: The Final Evolution as two examples-because i do own those titles). Nor did i say that i do not support licensed anime. Those are both your assumptions, and they're both wrong. I own Bamboo Blade: i also own Rental Magica. If you're going to refute my posts, please read them in the entirety instead of just saying "downloader! bad!" because you're incorrect on both counts.

And if you're like most of the downloaders I know, you're downloading weekly as the shows are airing in Japan & almost nothing outside of long, ongoing titles like Bleach or One Piece are yet to be announced as licensed & thus fair game in your book. I don't buy your argument.
gingi789 wrote:
So if you're arguing that onemanga and mangafox shouldn't have existed in the first place, what's your take on crunchyroll? It started as a place where they gathered illegal fansubs, and charged money for it. It's only been legit for about a year and a half or so.

Do I give a rat's rear about crunchyroll? I don't watch streams nor do I download. God, I have other things to do with my life than spend all day on my computer watching fricken anime. IF I ever find an extra day or 2 in the week, I would most likely watch ANN's anime. I have to talk to convicted felons all day long & hear their sad, pathetic excuses for why, when a judge orders them not to use any drugs they don't have a prescription for, they can't test clean for me.
My 2 cents is it was bad crunchyroll started out illegally, but given a chance, they saw the evil of their ways & went legit. It's not unlike the government employing hackers to chase other hackers or all the drug programs I know in town that hire former addicts to run their rehab clases because they know what the clients are going thru.
gingi789 wrote:
You're really barking up the wrong tree,

I hate dogs.
gingi789 wrote:
especially since the whole premise is that "fansubbers are killing the American anime market!" I don't watch fansubs of shows that are lisenced in the US; i buy the DVDs. Explain how someone who buys the licensed DVD's and manga in the US while trying to enjoy the ones that have not been licensed is part of the problem.

I'm sorry.
You are such a good psychic you know which titles are GOING to be released? Because most of the downloaders I know are downloading as the shows are put up-ie-as thay are showing in Japan. We usually don't get licensing until 6 months later or longer.
Unless you're waiting a year to watch these shows or you buy thge shows you didn't like, you are part of the problem. Had you waited, you could have at least waited to rent the stuff off netflix or watch the streams.
gingi789 wrote:

And for the last time- I never said that i don't support licensed shows out of fear that they might get cancelled. (you're talking to someone who bought all of Reaper, all of Farscape, and all of Dead Like Me, even though those shows all got cancelled, and a lot of story arcs didn't get finished). Don't say i did.

Quote:
Manga companies, otoh, have issues with dangling the proverbial carrot only to snatch it away. Bad enough some titles in a series get published once a year -- works for 350-page text novels, not so much for something you can read in an hour -- but then there's this common scenario. You're bought vol. 1. Loved it. Bought vol. 2-6 like clockwork (never mind 2-19). And then ... nothing. The year goes by; you start digging through amazon.com, the publishers website, ANN, for any news of the next release. Only to find out, oh, they cancelled it.
So let's see, $100 gone. Two, five, ten years gone. And you, dear reader, are left stuck not ever knowing what's happened to these characters you've grown to care about. There comes a point where you’re frustrated and tired of gambling hard-earned money and your investment of time on a product that seems to do this far too much. And then you stop buying anything.

Sorry, but those sound like typical manga publisher boycotter words. "XXX dropped the Shana books! I'm NEVER buying anything from them again!"
Zin5ki-as I said-you're the one who has to live with your choices as we all do. I'd love to see Galactic Heroes, but I doubt it will ever make it over, even on streams, because it is such a premium product to the company that owns it.
I do believe that if fansubs didn't exist the companies might have been forced to deal with digital content sooner. The fansubs gave them a handy excuse to drag their feet. I also believe part of the problem, though, has been the dueling formats. Yen said so-that they want to get into digital delivery, but are unhappy with most of the e-readers. The fans have been doing their own thing so the market hasn't been able to declare a winner in the formats, but the companies understandibly don't want to invest in setting up to deliver in a format that fails so they have to re-work stuff.
And had subs never existed & sales dropped due to the recession, the comanies would have been forced to eat the lost sales or look for innovative ways to deliver the product. Time that could have been spent delivering content digitally themselves was spent trying to prevent illegal digital delivery.
But the issue is bigger than just Japan for you, Zin5ki. We have the whole regional dvd thing which is a huge roadblock. They've gotten used to regional formats policing importing stuff from one licensed area to another (plus I'm sure regional licensing fees) when digital delivery can perhaps open up delivery into areas these titles haven't been available in before.
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gingi789



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 56
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:37 am Reply with quote
CCSYueh wrote:
gingi789 wrote:

Umm....either you didn't read my post, or you just chose to ignore the content. What i said was that will download something that isn't liscensed here until it is. I never said that i wouldn't buy stuff that hadn't been continued (Gunslinger Girl-the manga-and Alive: The Final Evolution as two examples-because i do own those titles). Nor did i say that i do not support licensed anime. Those are both your assumptions, and they're both wrong. I own Bamboo Blade: i also own Rental Magica. If you're going to refute my posts, please read them in the entirety instead of just saying "downloader! bad!" because you're incorrect on both counts.

And if you're like most of the downloaders I know, you're downloading weekly as the shows are airing in Japan & almost nothing outside of long, ongoing titles like Bleach or One Piece are yet to be announced as licensed & thus fair game in your book. I don't buy your argument.
gingi789 wrote:
So if you're arguing that onemanga and mangafox shouldn't have existed in the first place, what's your take on crunchyroll? It started as a place where they gathered illegal fansubs, and charged money for it. It's only been legit for about a year and a half or so.

Do I give a rat's rear about crunchyroll? I don't watch streams nor do I download. God, I have other things to do with my life than spend all day on my computer watching fricken anime. IF I ever find an extra day or 2 in the week, I would most likely watch ANN's anime. I have to talk to convicted felons all day long & hear their sad, pathetic excuses for why, when a judge orders them not to use any drugs they don't have a prescription for, they can't test clean for me.
My 2 cents is it was bad crunchyroll started out illegally, but given a chance, they saw the evil of their ways & went legit. It's not unlike the government employing hackers to chase other hackers or all the drug programs I know in town that hire former addicts to run their rehab clases because they know what the clients are going thru.
gingi789 wrote:
You're really barking up the wrong tree,

I hate dogs.
gingi789 wrote:
especially since the whole premise is that "fansubbers are killing the American anime market!" I don't watch fansubs of shows that are lisenced in the US; i buy the DVDs. Explain how someone who buys the licensed DVD's and manga in the US while trying to enjoy the ones that have not been licensed is part of the problem.

I'm sorry.
You are such a good psychic you know which titles are GOING to be released? Because most of the downloaders I know are downloading as the shows are put up-ie-as thay are showing in Japan. We usually don't get licensing until 6 months later or longer.
Unless you're waiting a year to watch these shows or you buy thge shows you didn't like, you are part of the problem. Had you waited, you could have at least waited to rent the stuff off netflix or watch the streams.
gingi789 wrote:

And for the last time- I never said that i don't support licensed shows out of fear that they might get cancelled. (you're talking to someone who bought all of Reaper, all of Farscape, and all of Dead Like Me, even though those shows all got cancelled, and a lot of story arcs didn't get finished). Don't say i did.

Quote:
Manga companies, otoh, have issues with dangling the proverbial carrot only to snatch it away. Bad enough some titles in a series get published once a year -- works for 350-page text novels, not so much for something you can read in an hour -- but then there's this common scenario. You're bought vol. 1. Loved it. Bought vol. 2-6 like clockwork (never mind 2-19). And then ... nothing. The year goes by; you start digging through amazon.com, the publishers website, ANN, for any news of the next release. Only to find out, oh, they cancelled it.
So let's see, $100 gone. Two, five, ten years gone. And you, dear reader, are left stuck not ever knowing what's happened to these characters you've grown to care about. There comes a point where you’re frustrated and tired of gambling hard-earned money and your investment of time on a product that seems to do this far too much. And then you stop buying anything.

Sorry, but those sound like typical manga publisher boycotter words. "XXX dropped the Shana books! I'm NEVER buying anything from them again!"
Zin5ki-as I said-you're the one who has to live with your choices as we all do. I'd love to see Galactic Heroes, but I doubt it will ever make it over, even on streams, because it is such a premium product to the company that owns it.
I do believe that if fansubs didn't exist the companies might have been forced to deal with digital content sooner. The fansubs gave them a handy excuse to drag their feet. I also believe part of the problem, though, has been the dueling formats. Yen said so-that they want to get into digital delivery, but are unhappy with most of the e-readers. The fans have been doing their own thing so the market hasn't been able to declare a winner in the formats, but the companies understandibly don't want to invest in setting up to deliver in a format that fails so they have to re-work stuff.
And had subs never existed & sales dropped due to the recession, the comanies would have been forced to eat the lost sales or look for innovative ways to deliver the product. Time that could have been spent delivering content digitally themselves was spent trying to prevent illegal digital delivery.
But the issue is bigger than just Japan for you, Zin5ki. We have the whole regional dvd thing which is a huge roadblock. They've gotten used to regional formats policing importing stuff from one licensed area to another (plus I'm sure regional licensing fees) when digital delivery can perhaps open up delivery into areas these titles haven't been available in before.


Quote:
nime and manga business models are two different things. As others have mentioned, anime companies have figured out ways around production lag times, and also made DVDs more affordable for those who want hard copy. Another important difference is anime companies have a good track record of delivering the promised product. I don't mean whether or not you think the dub or packaging was good or not. I mean, barring company closure or loss of license, just getting the complete product (or whatever part of the product was licensed) to market. Manga companies, otoh, have issues with dangling the proverbial carrot only to snatch it away. Bad enough some titles in a series get published once a year -- works for 350-page text novels, not so much for something you can read in an hour -- but then there's this common scenario. You're bought vol. 1. Loved it. Bought vol. 2-6 like clockwork (never mind 2-19). And then ... nothing. The year goes by; you start digging through amazon.com, the publishers website, ANN, for any news of the next release. Only to find out, oh, they cancelled it.



Umm....this wasn't me. If you're going to falsely put words into my mouth, at least try to go more than one page away.

And, no, btw. I don't download weekly. I have subscriptions to Crunchyroll and The Anime Network. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I don't need to download shows like bleach and naruto. They're simulcast from Japan the same day. I don't follow One Piece, so i don't really care. Most of the shows that are on (now) are able to be simulcast.

Oh, btw.....i don't watch the shows i don't like. That's what Wikipedia and ANN is for. Then again, since you seem to think like i'm some confused child, whatever floats your boat.

I think it's nice how all you do is complain about the problem without offering any workable real world solutions. And I would love to buy Baka to Test, but it hasn't been released on DVD. And i never said i was psychic-you have an irritating habit of putting words into other people's mouths that they didn't say.

You keep saying "most of the downloaders i know".....well, i'm not a downloader you know. So stop bunching me in that group. Especially since most of your preconceptions, it seems, are based on the "downloaders you know".

And you assume i don't have other things to do with my life? Keep in mind that if you use the "you're posting on the boards this late" argument.....so are you. If anyone here is trying to be psychic, it's you, not me.
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abunai
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Joined: 05 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:04 am Reply with quote
That song... the only thing I can think of after seeing that video is... "Furry Jesus". The imagery, dear God, the imagery.

- abunai
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