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The Dreams of Satoshi Kon: Chapter IV - Warmth


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gartholamundi



Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 316
Location: Gainesville, FL
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:44 pm Reply with quote
Spastic Minnow wrote:
If you look further into that wiki entry [for "serendipity"] you read the word's origin and stumble upon one of the probable sources for the movie, the Persian fairy tale: . The Three Princes of Serendip in which "three princes by 'accidents and sagacity' discern the nature of a lost camel".


That's far out. Thanks for finding that. =)

Alien1375 wrote:
However, I found it really difficult to care about two of the three main characters:

1. an insultingly stereotypical homosexual ....


For me, Hana was really believable. My father came out of the closet when I was 10. While he wasn't into drag or the drag scene, I did get to meet a lot of interesting "characters" who called him a friend. After a couple decades of meeting his friends, I'd say that Hana as a homosexual anime character has a serious degree of believability ... but that's just my take.

One reason (out of several, some of which are probably intuitive based on my experience rather than logical) that I really like and believe in Hana is because he clearly wants to portray himself as cool, classy and feminine, but when his anger reaches a certain level that totally drops away and his inherent masculine strength bubbles up uncontrollably to the surface. That's not totally uncommon to witness. (Hana is also the character who most consciously is a performer, linking him back to Chiyoko in MA and Mima in PB. Just as with those two, it's interesting to watch Hana through the masks he wears.)

And -- I totally agree with you about the haiku. Freakin' cool as anything. That was a real highlight for me, and in more than one way reminded me of another favorite anime, Spring and Chaos. I mean I have to wonder ... could that have connection been intentional or am I totally reading it in there? It's one thing to have come up with Hana who, to me, is a very believable character -- and then he's also a poet on top of his singing and acting. It's one of those touches that isn't necessary, but still adds to Hana's personality. Was there a bit of a glancing homage being paid, just a wink or nod? I have no idea.

But its fun to wonder about.


EDIT:

Alien1375 wrote:
2. the psychopathic teenager spoiler[stabbing your dad in the chest because the cat ran away?!?! Am I supposed to feel sympathy towards her?]


Psychopathic? Because she in a fit of teenage "passion" (in the broad sense of the word) did something violent and stupid after which she fled the scene assuming the worst, letting her fear grow and fester in a way common enough among teenagers? If she were psychopathic I'm not sure she'd be experiencing the guilt she clearly feels throughout the film.

Newspapers are full of similar stories in every urban center, practically every nation. I mean, I think that particular act was pulled directly from the headlines even (I'll look for the source of that; I think it was in Andrew Osmond's The Illusionist).
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Spastic Minnow
Bargain Hunter
Exempt from Grammar Rules


Joined: 02 May 2006
Posts: 4609
Location: Gainesville, FL
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:20 pm Reply with quote
gartholamundi wrote:
Spastic Minnow wrote:
If you look further into that wiki entry [for "serendipity"] you read the word's origin and stumble upon one of the probable sources for the movie, the Persian fairy tale: . The Three Princes of Serendip in which "three princes by 'accidents and sagacity' discern the nature of a lost camel".


That's far out. Thanks for finding that. =)


Ironically, it was a serendipitous discovery... I had absolutely no knowledge of of the fairy tale before double-checking the definition of the word to make sure I knew what I was talking about.
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PBsallad



Joined: 19 Dec 2009
Posts: 338
Location: Phoenix
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:04 pm Reply with quote
Another great article in this series. Tokyo Godfathers is probably my favorite of Satoshi's movies. I didn't really think I would like it as much as I did.
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vashfanatic



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 3489
Location: Back stateside
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:44 pm Reply with quote
gartholamundi wrote:
For me, Hana was really believable. My father came out of the closet when I was 10. While he wasn't into drag or the drag scene, I did get to meet a lot of interesting "characters" who called him a friend. After a couple decades of meeting his friends, I'd say that Hana as a homosexual anime character has a serious degree of believability ... but that's just my take.

Well, and one of the things I love is that in the interview that accompanies the movie, Satoshi Kon said that he admires Hana because Hana is so secure in his (her?) self. And I think that's definitely the case. Gin and Miyuki are little balls of self-recrimination, while Hana, for all his flightiness, is confident and proud. Sure, he's campy, but he's also probably the bravest, noblest, and kindest character in the movie. There's a lot of depth behind the stereotypical surface.
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gartholamundi



Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 316
Location: Gainesville, FL
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:25 am Reply with quote
Alien1375 wrote:
2. the psychopathic teenager spoiler[stabbing your dad in the chest because the cat ran away?!?! Am I supposed to feel sympathy towards her?]


K, here's the paragraph -- not as fleshed-out as I remembered, but still relevant (The Illusionist, A. Osmond, p. 60, third column):

"The scene where Gin is beaten up by youths looking for fun is taken directly from contemporary headlines. So is a flashback where the schoolgirl Miyuki stabs her father in a family row. The scene would have touched a particular nerve: Japan has nightmares of an out-of-control, violent youth, fueled by truly horrific crimes involving very young perpetrators. More typical, though, are headlines such as, 'Girl held for knifing father in TV row,' from a 2002 edition of the Japan Times."

That 2002 article is here, and concerns a girl and dad who couldn't agree on what TV channel to watch:

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20021222a8.html

And here's a similar article from 2007 concerning a girl who stabbed her dad in his sleep after arguing with him about how she didn't want to study anymore:

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20080720a2.html

Obviously you can find more similar articles from the past 10 or 15 years if you go to the Japan Times website and do some searching around. The search words "teenager" and "stabbing" get a ton of hits.

So ... I'm getting that you didn't believe a stressed-out schoolgirl in Japan might stab her dad over a cat. That's fine. From where I sit though, the writers didn't have to stretch or skew reality all that much.

In fact, they would have had to skew it slightly in order to avoid potential problems with the family after the film was released, right?
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Psycho_Despair



Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Posts: 376
Location: East of Eden
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:40 pm Reply with quote
I really enjoyed this great article about this film. Thank You Tim.
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alpha_beta_angel



Joined: 12 May 2009
Posts: 29
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:42 pm Reply with quote
My husband claims to "own" this movie on DVD (in actuality, he has adopted my copy) and upon hearing the news of Satoshi Kon's passing, he cut his work-shift short so he could come home and enjoy a re-watch. He really, really adores it.

It was hard to find on DVD in Australia and even though it took years to hunt down, I never fail to enjoy watching it and smile at the "dancing" Tokyo Tower in the credits. I love how it's one of the few titles me and my husband both enjoy and we can't be in a bad mood after watching it.
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