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INTEREST: Creator Shuho Sato Addresses Illegally Uploaded Manga


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akatsukinotobi



Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 29
Location: Texas, USA
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:28 pm Reply with quote
"Regulation is not for the benefit of the readers or the works, but for the self-satisfaction of those who regulate."

Best quote regarding scanlations that I've heard since this whole thing started. I wish more manga creators would give their permission to post manga online, as long as it isn't for commercial use.
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Paploo



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1875
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:31 pm Reply with quote
I think the problem with how some people might read Sato's statement is that he chooses to make his work available online- for assorted reasons that's not a choice some cartoonists make, and using "people make webcomics" as an excuse to pirate stuff is something that is a little unsettling [and yes, I've seen it used].

There's also the fact that when profits involved, it makes for an entirely different situation. Letting your work be associated with criminal organizations is another thing entirely from putting it up on your own website, by your own choice. Him mentioning his blanket permission doesn't apply towards co-creations makes it sound like he's trying to promote the advantages of online works while also ensuring his statements aren't used to promote theft.

Bringing up One Piece is an odd thing- I doubt it's sales are heavily affected by piracy in Japan, but I imagine that might be different in other areas of the world, and it's entirely anecdotal. It's a lot of tricky statements- all of which are very Japan-specific and migth not apply at all to the domestic piracy situation. I have a feeling we'll be getting a very confusing forum blathering about it.

Sato chooses to make his work available online, but he should also be respectful to those who don't- it's up to a creator what's done with their work, and if they don't want you to distribute online, you should respect that. I think we also have to take into consideration his general dissatisfaction with the manga industry- it's a large helping of salt that clouds his statements.


Last edited by Paploo on Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:42 pm; edited 3 times in total
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ZakuAce



Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Posts: 525
Location: SE Wisconsin
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:32 pm Reply with quote
[sarcasm]Because leaving them unregulated DID NOT IN ANY WAY get us into this mess in the first place.[/sarcasm]

Quote:
At the risk of repeating myself, illegal uploads are, after all, illegal. So, one shouldn't do it, but if the author authorizes it, then it's legal and I think they should be used for publicity.


He kinda circumvents the issue of illegally uploaded material anyway. This seems like a cop-out to me.
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Paploo



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1875
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:39 pm Reply with quote
ZakuAce wrote:
[sarcasm]Because leaving them unregulated DID NOT IN ANY WAY get us into this mess in the first place.[/sarcasm]

Quote:
At the risk of repeating myself, illegal uploads are, after all, illegal. So, one shouldn't do it, but if the author authorizes it, then it's legal and I think they should be used for publicity.


He kinda circumvents the issue of illegally uploaded material anyway.


I think he might of meant to promote creators taking their work online similar to what he's done [and doesn't he charge for his online work?], rather then the illegal uses one could read into from his statements [backtracking that he's against illegal uses, and that his collaboration w/another manga artist isn't available for sharing makes those readings not entirely correct]. Putting that in there does balance it a bit.

Stuff like Flex Comics publishing an online anthology, and cartoonists making webcomics, are an entirely different thing from scanlations [and the bucket of questionable activities that go with them]- I hope people stay away from pro-piracy readings of it and focus in on the promotion of legit digital comics aspect to his discussion. I think piracy has held back the potential of digital comics in some ways- Sato seems to be focusing on the potential involved in creators distributing their works online [for free or pay] and working outside the standard publishing system in Japan.

[ps-- being against piracy does not equal being against digital stuff]
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ZakuAce



Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Posts: 525
Location: SE Wisconsin
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:46 pm Reply with quote
Yes but you can't ignore:

Quote:
"Illegal manga uploads have become a problem at times, but I think it is more constructive to use their influence for promotion instead of regulating them. Regulation is not for the benefit of the readers or the works, but for the self-satisfaction of those who regulate."


Which really is practically promoting the use of illegal uploads. I think he chose a bad way to phrase his words.
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garfield15



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 1409
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:47 pm Reply with quote
Time for Epic Thread #5! (I think we're on 5 now)
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Paploo



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1875
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:51 pm Reply with quote
ZakuAce wrote:
Yes but you can't ignore:

Quote:
"Illegal manga uploads have become a problem at times, but I think it is more constructive to use their influence for promotion instead of regulating them. Regulation is not for the benefit of the readers or the works, but for the self-satisfaction of those who regulate."


Which really is practically promoting the use of illegal uploads. I think he chose a bad way to phrase his words.


Yeah, it's definitely a backwards way of doing it. I'm curious how other creators will react towards it- I've seen similar things in discussions on US comics boards- you have a creator who doesn't mind if their 100% owned by them comics are pirated [mindyou they also often do the same thing as Sato and add in some bit about how this doesn't count their works contractually bound to someonelse be it another creator or publisher], which is great for them, but ignore the part where other creators have experienced really negative affects from piracy- it's up to individual creators what's done with their work, and what's okay for one person isn't okay for another.

I know a lot of webcartoonists who are very opinionated about creators rights- they'll put their work out there for free for everyone to read on their website, but they'll get really, really pissed when a friends work is pirated, or when a work they did for print is pirated. Online promotion has it's place [there's no comic published in print without some kind of online preview out there], and works really well for some works, but it's not really a magical fix all for every project- it's a case by case basis thing.

http://kleefeldoncomics.blogspot.com/2010/09/how-much-real-webcomic-creator-earns.html Dorothy Gambrell, one of the more successful webcomics artists out there, provides a breakdown of her income on her site.
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chefneer
Aria Company



Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 1673
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:00 pm Reply with quote
garfield15 wrote:
Time for Epic Thread #5! (I think we're on 5 now)

Somebody brought popcorn for the last one. This time I'll bring the beer.
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Almaz



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 134
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:51 pm Reply with quote
chefneer wrote:
garfield15 wrote:
Time for Epic Thread #5! (I think we're on 5 now)

Somebody brought popcorn for the last one. This time I'll bring the beer.


If I remember correctly, Zak said last time he was bringing the hot dogs



.
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minakichan





PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:52 pm Reply with quote
This guy says things that make me want to give him my hard-earned money.

Too bad he doesn't have anything licensed; guess I'll read his stuff through scanlations and just buy the raw tankouban =/
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John Casey



Joined: 31 May 2009
Posts: 1853
Location: In My Angry Center
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:55 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
"Regulation is not for the benefit of the readers or the works, but for the self-satisfaction of those who regulate."

Quoted for the motherfrakking truth it is.

garfield15 wrote:
Time for Epic Thread #5! (I think we're on 5 now)

This guy said the most logical thing I've heard all week. If people seriously start throwing shit over it, then here's a head's up:

Ya'lls is [insults removed]

Y'know, the usual stuff. I mean, if you guys really start arguing here about this, I'll officially lose hope in the anime community's collective intelligence quotient... Sad
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CareyGrant



Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Posts: 453
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:01 am Reply with quote
What an oddly phrased article; I wonder if it's a side-effect of translation... "self-satisfaction of those who regulate," is such a strange turn of phrase. I don't know what being smug has to do with anything, that and he talks in circles a bit. Strange.
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matrixdude



Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 71
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:11 am Reply with quote
Finally someone who gets it. If I ever met this guy, I'd bow and shake his hand.
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Sunday Silence



Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 2047
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:28 am Reply with quote
And how is this gonna make Manga come quicker to the USA again?? Like yesterday?
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doctordoom85



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 2019
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:23 am Reply with quote
If the legal companies or the mangaka themselves post is available for free online, that's one thing. However, Zac gave a terrific argument a few podcasts about how the concept of fansubs/scanlations being "free advertising" became outdated quite a while ago. I don't really see how it will hurt the works to cut down on the illegal stuff.

As for the "benefit of the readers", obviously the legal readers won't be affected, and as for illegal readers? Really, should we care that much? When I hear people crying about One Manga going down, I'm like, "wow, most of you're losing entertainment you never put a nickel into, I'll break out my violin". Sorry, you were doing something illegal anyway, I can only cry so much for you when all you've loss is "how's the story end?".

And for the regulators' benefit? Last time I checked, it took quite a bit of time and money to handle these sort of situations, so I highly doubt the "regulators" are doing it to stroke their own egos.

John Casey: yes, because having a different opinion makes us idiots. Thanks for the narrowmindness. Paploo made some excellent points, how about arguing against them instead of acting silly?
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