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gartholamundi



Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 316
Location: Gainesville, FL
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:10 am Reply with quote
YotaruVegeta wrote:
How can you tell someone that their overwhelming love for something is not real?


Let's ask Satoshi Kon. Very Happy
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Beatdigga



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:36 am Reply with quote
gartholamundi wrote:
YotaruVegeta wrote:
How can you tell someone that their overwhelming love for something is not real?


Let's ask Satoshi Kon. Very Happy


Low blow dude. It hasn't even been a month yet.

As for Moribito, there's a very good reason it tanked royally and only got one run.
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YotaruVegeta



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:00 pm Reply with quote
Yes, like a previous poster stated, it was in a bad time spot. Low ratings are not a sole indicator of a show's quality. We all have examples of shows that either did poorly in the US or Japanese ratings but were not worthy of being canceled.

May I also note that some of the better rated shows on Adult Swim are non-japanese shows that literally look like they were drawn by an elementary school student.

In any case, Moribito is not only seen through Adult Swim. It has its Japanese broadcast audience, its audience internationally, and DVD sales/ rentals.
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Crisha
Moderator


Joined: 21 Apr 2010
Posts: 4254
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:14 pm Reply with quote
I love Moribito. And I personally loved the execution of the story. Even the brief lull in action after the first 7 episodes was enjoyable. What some people thought was boring I felt really fit the mood - a peaceful, serene atmosphere on the surface with suspence brewing underneath. To watch the everyday lives of the characters was intriguing and felt appropriate... and it's not like the plot just dropped off the face of the earth - there was still research going on behind the scenes. So, no, the slice-of-life portions were not as exciting, but I felt it helped ground the series by giving us a glimpse into this time period (a fake world, but one where the culture was based off of historical Japan/China), and seeing the day-to-day lives of the people living then.

There's not a part I didn't like about the anime series, and I chugged through that bugger.

The novel, on the other hand, was different. I have yet to finish it actually. My library has both the first and the second volumes, and I was excited to see them so I picked both up. I think I only got through 3 chapters in the first volume... I didn't really care for the more limited scope of the novels (if I remember correctly, those chapters were written in a 3rd person limited POV of Balsa... I may be wrong though, it's been a while). Being exposed to her perceptions and opinions allows the reader the chance to understand her better, but it also loses out on some of the breath and wider scope that I loved about the anime - of course, maybe the POV switches later on, so I may be complaining for no good reason. I'm also someone who appreciates not always knowing how someone feels about something by being exposed to their thougts (unless if the person has a clear, unique voice, and most of those stories come from 1st person POV), so watching Balsa and being limited to her actions, facial expressions, and what she spoke out loud was more appealing than actually knowing her feelings. I also love the visuals the anime provides, they helped set the tone and mood.

I have a feeling I jumped shark too early with the novel though, so I do plan on picking it up again. I'd also really like to know what happens in the second novel, and I don't want to pick it up until I've read the first.
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Beatdigga



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:27 pm Reply with quote
Ok, the show which failed in Japan and kept any more Guardian novels from being animated.

The book series which Scholastic killed after low sales before the third book was published.

The aforementioned Adult Swim series (where at least the comedies come as more mature than shounens).

I'd rather not drag this down into further debate, since it would be derailing the topic when you go away from show quality (the point of the review, which I disagreed with) to performance.
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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
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Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:35 pm Reply with quote
Beatdigga wrote:
The show was utterly sleep inducing. It took forever to get going and tried to use its setting and admittedly unique lead (in that she's an older female with different responsibilities than the younger girls in anime) to distract people from the fact that extremely little happened. I can appreciate a setup, but do something or else it's just boring.


My problem was for some reason the volume would shoot down on this series on my tv so it was a constant up & down to try to hear the story but mute the fricken AS commercials but none of the other AS shows seemed to have this problem. I got the basic drift, but missed some of the finer details.

Dude, as Alice Cooper pointed out on the Tomorrow intervierw, everything has fans. Just because YOU deem something to be unworthy everything represents a certain amount of effort on the part of the artist.
Just because you can't appreciate a more contemplative storytelling mode does not mean that mode sucks. Some find the Action story mode loud & empty & the fact so many with short attention spans can so readily enjoy such movies isn't exactly good advertisement. I've always been amazed my daughter has always enjoyed such movies as Life Aquatic or Stranger Than Fiction from a fairly young age when many others her age would be unwilling to sit thru such slow-moving tales.
I mean, for my money top 40 fans who don't buy full cds of an artist are deficient, but that's just because I often like the songs that don't make it to the stupid radio. Metallica was good before they broke. Did their getting radioplay make them better or was the talent there to begin with? Just because the masses don't appreciate something by no means makes it trash. Many would argue the opposite.
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YotaruVegeta



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:03 pm Reply with quote
Beatdigga, just because a product doesn't make money for its company does not mean anything about the quality of that product. I bet you have a favorite anime that has been critically praised and yet did not succeed in luring many listeners.

We all have examples of that, and there are huge sites dedicated to shows that only had cult success.

You're being completely unreasonable just for the sake of it. Whether you like something or not is your freedom, but to make this leap that "ratings -> quality" does not work.
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Beatdigga



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:14 pm Reply with quote
YotaruVegeta wrote:
Beatdigga, just because a product doesn't make money for its company does not mean anything about the quality of that product. I bet you have a favorite anime that has been critically praised and yet did not succeed in luring many listeners.

We all have examples of that, and there are huge sites dedicated to shows that only had cult success.

You're being completely unreasonable just for the sake of it. Whether you like something or not is your freedom, but to make this leap that "ratings -> quality" does not work.


Actually I made the point that we were going off topic with the ratings/quality correlation. I just wanted to point out that I wasn't an idiot for finding the show overly pretentious. That's all.
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tuxedocat



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:32 pm Reply with quote
Beatdigga wrote:
Actually I made the point that we were going off topic with the ratings/quality correlation. I just wanted to point out that I wasn't an idiot for finding the show overly pretentious. That's all.


See, this statement seems to insinuate that you find those who like the show "pretentious", which is why people are getting upset and thinking you are trolling. I don't know if you are intentionally doing this, but that is how a lot of people may be perceiving it.


Dargonxtc wrote:
Originally, the first two pack (V.1-2) set also came with a box. This box was made of true cardboard (non-corrugated) and rather cheap. So of course a bunch of people complained (myself included), and at the end of a rather long release schedule Media Blasters decided to offer a better box upgrade made of 'plackboard'. This is now offered as a package for V.7-8. But by that time I had already gotten those DVDs, but MB did great, and also offered it as an individual purchase to persons such as myself (which I also bought).


Thanks for the info. I guess I completely missed this when it first was offered. I just ordered the artbox. Those cardboard sleeves allow the DVD cases to fall out the bottom if I'm not careful when removing them from the shelves, so it is good to find the artbox at TRSI. Very pretty too.


Last edited by tuxedocat on Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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YotaruVegeta



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:37 pm Reply with quote
OK, STILL, because a show could not find an audience to sustain it means nothing. A show can be poorly advertised, it can be on at a bad time, it has little buzz amongst fans, etc.

Kekkaishi seems to be doing well, but that show had some buzz that I caught onto before it hit the air. Moribito wasn't as buzzed about before it came to US TV, I don't think.

Look at something like the Oscars. The Academy and a lot of critics may love these nominees, but how many people see the best foreign film in comparison to how many people see blockbusters?

tuxedocat, at least in my case, I take no offense to that. It's his perception, just like one person can see a painting as ugly while another sees it as magnificent.

I love Neil Gaiman's Sandman, but that's seen as pretentious, for goths, or for people who think they're smarter than they are. I don't fit any of these labels, so I don't take offense.
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Dargonxtc



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 4463
Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:20 pm Reply with quote
Beatdigga wrote:
I just wanted to point out that I wasn't an idiot for finding the show overly pretentious. That's all.


Maybe not, but your posts suggests otherwise.

Quote:
Burn in hell Moribito.

but it is such a stupid ovverrated (sic) piece of tripe

Seems like slim pickings this week

The animated equivalent of watching the grass grow

I'd rather not drag this down into further debate


You dish it out pretty good. (har har!)

Quote:
I don't appreciate your tone. At all. The idea that people who think Moribito is a slow-moving pretentious piece of junk are idiots or too slow in the mind to get it is offensive. This show is dull, it's boring, and its pretentious. Being called an idiot in so many words because I hate this show is infuriating. As far as I'm concerned, I'm glad the show bombed on TV since it shouldn't have aired in the first place.

But are pretty damned thin-skinned and the effing definition of pretentious. A walking, talking, drinking definition.
pretentious wrote:
  • full of pretense or pretension
  • characterized by assumption of dignity or importance
  • having or creating a deceptive outer appearance of great worth; ostentatious
  • insincere or false profession
  • the putting forth of an unwarranted claim
  • false or hypocritical profession
  • vain display


Now I don't know you so I can't honestly call you an idiot. But do you know how many posts it takes to tell the forum you don't like an anime. One. One well thought out and concise post. Not nine flame-bait ridden ones.

So while your intelligence is still open to debate, you being a troll is not. This is clear.

I would also like to add that I am GLAD you don't decide what AIRS on TV. This is not a pretentious statement because there are hundreds of channels and if you don't like something then you can simply switch the channel and have a choice of literally hundreds of other viewing options. And you know what, some of those other channels that you don't watch, I do.
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erinfinnegan
ANN Columnist


Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 598
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:37 pm Reply with quote
Raebo101 wrote:
Quote:
Balsa often sounds stiff, like Cindy Robinson is playing Major Kusanagi - which was appropriate for a cyborg but seems odd here.

Cindy Robinson? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Mary Elizabeth McGlynn play Major Kusanagi? Neutral


Arg! I looked this up in the database like three times and I still got it wrong. I'll ask to have that fixed.

yuricon wrote:
Moribito is, IMHO, the best anime I have ever watched.

That should be the pull quote on the packaging. "The best anime Erica Friedman has ever watched!"


YotaruVegeta wrote:
I find things like Mushi-shi and Natsumo Yujincho to be good anime, but some people who prefer a different paced show or shows of certain genres would say what you have, that "nothing happened."

We watched three episodes of Mushi-shi at a con, and my husband liked it but I was bored out of my skull. Unless I have to review it, I'm going to avoid it, even though I know Noah wants to watch it. Is that bad?

Anyhow, Beatdigga is right when he says the middle of the series is boring. There are those three or four episodes I mentioned in my review where not much happens except for some filler-tasting character development. I thought it was well-done, but a taaaaaad slow. I could see where someone else might get bored. The fight scenes are the kind of fight scenes I really like, so I felt they were worth waiting for, but I could see where other viewers might get annoyed.

I don't think Beatdigga watched the ending, which was very exciting with lots of fighting.

What struck me about those character-filler episodes was how much it felt like a lot of episodes of Avatar the Last Air Bender. Moribito is about nearly the same thing and both shows have a gambling episode that's eerily similar. I thought Moribito was better-plotted out with a better ending than Avatar. I'm so loaning it to my Avatar-fan friends to see how they think it stacks up.

Beatdigga wrote:
The book series which Scholastic killed after low sales before the third book was published.

Sales are not always an indicator of quality. I don't think Scholastic new how to market the book. Also, the book is for kids and the anime was on Adult Swim - do you see how the show wasn't good advertising for the book? If Moribito had been on after school the book would've been a huge hit. Cartoon Network Standards and Practices is a little too rigorous to show spear fighters and characters who die and bleed and stuff.

Kekkaishi should also be on after school.

yuna49 wrote:
Might I suggest that those of you who enjoyed Moribito take a look at Kemono no Sou-ja Erin which is streamed by Crunchyroll?

I started to watch it because my name is in the title, but it seemed pretty boring, and like you said, for kids. I think I only made it three or four episodes in. I might watch more for the column, though.

yuna49 wrote:
As for the setting of Moribito, apparently it generated some controversy among right-wing denizens on Japanese forums like 2ch who thought Kanbal was supposed to be Korea and Balsa thus Korean herself.

That's so weird! I thought the Yakoo seemed Korean. Balsa's tribe seemed like Vikings or something.

Shichimi wrote:
...the show has a 'magic consultant' by the name of Kiyomune Miwa. Apparently he's acted as a consultant for lots of game and novel projects, where the creators want to ensure a degree of authenticity.

I have to confess that magical systems interest me a lot*, and the fact that there was research done to keep things grounded in some level of reality (for want of a better word) is enough to pique my interest.

*Of course I realize they're all errant nonsense. I'm not mental! Razz

That's really interesting! Of course we don't think you think you're a magician or crazy, I mean, you didn't mention the Knights Templar yet.

Magic systems are something a lot of geeks are into.

enurtsol wrote:
Is that the same A,A' from my old Manga Vizion anthologies? Confused

(And Wizards, Warriors, & You over Choose Your Own Adventures.)

I am not familiar with these anthologies of which you speak. Nor have I ever even seen a single volume of Wizards, Warriors, & You.
I have never read a Manga Vizion anthology! Nor have I ever seen a Wizards, Warriors, & You gaming book...! But I feel like I should have, that's the kind of thing I'm into.

YotaruVegeta wrote:
I have started watching Shiki (about a week ago) and I'm sucked into it. You'll probably figure out the cause of the "mysterious illness" in 3 episodes. Hell, maybe even 2.

How about episode one? I can't not spoil this "illness" next week and still discuss the show.

Moonsaber wrote:
Shenl742 wrote:
Moonsaber wrote:
Shenl742 wrote:
I suppose I'm in the minority for thinking that Moribito actually surpasses Mononoke.

I'm curious. In what ways does Moriboto surpass Mononoke Hime? Granted, Moriboto has more room to succeed as a television series, meaning more time, but a shorter format of a film allows greater attention to detail.

To me, Moribito manages to express a lot of the same themes without feeling like an environmentalist guilt-trip.

I also kind of dug Moribito's overall feelings of altruism, despite it being a "low-fantasy" series. I felt that Mononoke put a lot of emphasise on how humans are flawed and are pretty much constantly struggling to fight their inner demons. While Moribito just pretty much went up and said, "Yeah, humans are flawed, but they can still totally kick ass. At the end of the day, humans are really, really awesome".

So, essentially, you took away a better feeling from Moriboto than from Mononoke.

First of all, Moonsaber's point is awesome, and it's more than just a feeling. Princess Monoke has very anti-human, anti-civilization themes. Moribito is great because it's both pro-nature and pro-human. Both titles are careful to show the shades of gray instead of being black and white about good and evil, but I think Princess Mononoke has a much more "what is lost can never be regained" feeling, and Moribito presents a cyclical timeline.


vashfanatic wrote:
I think I definitely need to find this book you're reading, though if the author truly says the grand arc is gone, surely today's column disproved that. The best anime, shows like Moribito, still invest in the arc (even if they could stand to be a few episodes shorter for pacing purposes) rather than the database. They may not do as well in the short run financially, but in the long run they won't be forgotten and the generic series will.

The author also talks about a need for small narratives... but I think you need to read the book for sure. And also you're right, what resonates with American mainstream audiences is still the grand narrative.

glitteringloke wrote:
i love sacchan... and it's been a while since i saw eps 14-26, i don't remember her being all boob-jiggly fanservice-y. Granted, she tries too hard to be the M to gintoki's S, but i never see it as that being her purpose. like everyone else, she's there for the 'lols'.

I was mostly annoyed that Sacchan shows up and pretends to be Gintama's wife and is also an "M". One or the other would be OK, but both annoyed me. She doesn't jiggle per say, but she does dress like a sexy ninja and characters in the show comment on it.

Princess_Irene wrote:
erin wrote:
Part One concludes a story arc with some stand-alone episodes thrown in. The set concludes with an over-the-top schmaltzy Christmas episode. (Two words: ghost orphans.)


Umm...not the part one I just finished. Perhaps you only watched it Broadcast Order? Nothing wrong with that, but that isn't the conclusion of Chronological Order, which might be worth a mention. Smile

I did watch it in Broadcast order... But I don't see how it would conclude differently if I watched it in Chronological Order...? Does that make sense?
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YotaruVegeta



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
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Location: New York
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:49 pm Reply with quote
I think Beatdigga rode the hype train and watched more episodes than he wanted to, just to see if it was what people claimed it was.

I responded to his comments because it's a sad fact of fandom that even if something is highly acclaimed, we are all different people, and not all people will "get it;" by that I don't mean intelligence, I just mean personal taste.

I would think that Mushi-shi, over Moribito, would be looked at as pretentious. It's calm, it's basically about nature, and I would be surprised if you can find 5 characters in total who raise their voice in it. I think if you are committed to watching it, get some coffee, an energy drink, or whatever you need to stay awake, because this ain't no Naruto, buddy.
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Bingal



Joined: 10 Jun 2010
Posts: 95
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:05 pm Reply with quote
Beatdigga wrote:
agila61 wrote:
YotaruVegeta wrote:
Well is it overly praised or overly boring people. You can't have it both ways.


Sure you can have it both ways, all you need is multiple people watching it. If one person doesn't like the palace intrigue dimension and a second person does, there is the 2nd person discussing the quality of the palace intrigue and the 1st yawning, "boring."

If someone wanted a shonen style anime composed of a fight-kabob (in the image of Even a Monkey can Draw Manga), all the social commentary on the peasants and lords is just filler that needs to be swapped with the meat of a fight. If someone has no interest in the fantasy elements except as an excuse for a fight, and doesn't care about character development unless it involves powering up ...

... Moribito would be a boring piece indeed. A few well-animated fights separated by long periods of all the rest of the stuff that the people who love it love to watch.


I don't appreciate your tone. At all. The idea that people who think Moribito is a slow-moving pretentious piece of junk are idiots or too slow in the mind to get it is offensive. This show is dull, it's boring, and its pretentious. Being called an idiot in so many words because I hate this show is infuriating. As far as I'm concerned, I'm glad the show bombed on TV since it shouldn't have aired in the first place.

Pretentious does not equal good. This show is boring because it fails to see that.


Nice double standards there. First you go into a thread utterly trashing something without sound criticism and then you go about insulting everyone for liking Serei no Moribito. Not only is it incredibly juvenile, but it is also very insulting. I would be hard-pressed to not call you a troll since you get upset by the show’s praise and therefore seeking others to fly of their handle by insulting them for not confirming to your vacuous ideals, standards, and whatnot.

Furthermore, do you even know what pretension means because it seems like you are throwing it around as a buzzword? In what exact way is Serei no Moribito overly bombastic to the point where it simply cannot justify the written substance that goes with it? Everything is handled with far more care and finesse to make it pretentiously stupid. To insult a narrative’s intelligence in a ‘‘contrarian for the sake of being contrarian’’ sort of way is nonsensical and unjustifiably derisive.

If anything, it is your tone that needs to change the most, and not that of others. Learn to grow up, really.
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Shichimi



Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 349
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:10 pm Reply with quote
YotaruVegeta wrote:
I would think that Mushi-shi, over Moribito, would be looked at as pretentious. It's calm, it's basically about nature, and I would be surprised if you can find 5 characters in total who raise their voice in it. I think if you are committed to watching it, get some coffee, an energy drink, or whatever you need to stay awake, because this ain't no Naruto, buddy.


I purchased the live-action film to 'test the waters', and kind of fell in love with it. I liked the pacing, and I have a disposition for stories with any kind of eco-theme. Having said that, I don't think it would be humanly possible to marathon something like Mushishi; for me the show seems deliberately designed to be consumed at a leisurely pace.
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