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It's too bad Aoi Hana isn't on CR anymore, I hope someone licenses it, it's a show I really want to see.
About the iPad... is it just the stuff on their store that they're blocking? I don't see how Apple could censor all the content coming onto an iPad unless they're the content provider. As far as I know Apple doesn't provide internet connections for iPads, you have to go to an ISP to get that. It makes sense that Apple is blocking nudity on their app store though, they have a history of doing that.

It was really cool to hear from your first guest! I love learning about military protocol, so will be definitely trying to check out Starship Operators (as well as the other anime another forum poster suggested).

Erica Friedman was a cool guest! Please have her back on someday! Her opinions and knowledge were really interesting to listen to. I will definitely check out her blog.

EDIT: The only show I'm looking forward to seeing in the fall line-up is the new Super Robot Wars. I thought at this point only wanting to see a few shows because everything else was garbage was the norm Sad

darkchibi07 wrote:

...just makes the Japanese grasping straws. I guess the otaku are just starting to warm up to the whole two girls getting into a romantic relationship thing. I don't know if I should ask this, but what took the otaku so long to embrace yuri in the first place? Why around 2003-2005 and not say 20 years ago? There could have been a competitive counterpart for yaoi, but obviously yaoi kept on building up a fanbase for quite awhile while yuri stayed fairly stagnate until the mid 2000s.

Because about then, Yaoi/BL sales started to flatten out. It is not fans who influence what is on the shelves....it is the publishing companies who influence what's on the shelves.

Bian and Yuri had been around since the late 60s, as I said in the podcast, as was the "aesthetic" movement which morphed into BL.

And early Bian/Yuri were around in the 70s. The 80s were pretty bad for Yuri, but from the mid-90s on, we had major series every few years. Audiences - and markets - have to be grown.

***

Thanks everyone for your kind words about the podcast!

Cheers,

Erica

Can someone tell me what is so misogynistic in Bakuman? I've been reading the series for a long time now and I don't see how it is any more misogynistic then 90%+ of the other material from Japan. Hell, I've read shoujo manga that I feel is more misogynistic.

Is it just the two female leads take a kind of back seat in their roles? Or is it something else?

Charred Knight wrote:

It's a call in show, as long as they where not treated like they where experts on the level of Zac, Justin or Mike Toole than I see no reason for why they shouldn't be on ANNCast. Look their was plenty of time for people to ask to be on ANNCast. I mean unless you where on vacation their is no excuse for whining about how you didn't get on ANNCast.

I have no idea what you are talking about since I have never asked to be on ANNCast, nor have I ever submitted a question. -At least, so far.

Charred Knight wrote:

The only complaint I can see is that they didn't like what you like. Heaven forbid they get someone with different taste who don't bitch about how cute girls are going to destroy anime.

No. It was their general tone and attempts at humor, which I find rather Beavis and Butthead - ish. I find that humor juvenile and eyeball-rolling offensive. Yes, I'll admit that it is purely subjective on my part. It had nothing to do with what shows they liked, of which I only vaguely remember.

Charred Knight wrote:

The centerpiece of the show was clearly intended to be Erica and she preformed beautifully making me amazed at her knowledge, and how she handled herself.

I agree. Actually, the first three guests provided interesting discussion. The last two lowered the tone of the discussion, IMO.

brand wrote:

Can someone tell me what is so misogynistic in Bakuman? I've been reading the series for a long time now and I don't see how it is any more misogynistic then 90%+ of the other material from Japan. Hell, I've read shoujo manga that I feel is more misogynistic.

Is it just the two female leads take a kind of back seat in their roles? Or is it something else?

I think it's more the attitude towards women voiced by some of the characters. Obviously, some people are more sensitive to this kinda thing than others who never have to deal with these attitudes in real life. Anyway, here's the article I linked to last time:
http://blogs.micds.org/gkalugotla/2009/12/07/mokona-modoki’s-picture-world-–-a-completely-justified-rant/

@PrettyKitty20034 - I don't know I just chalk it up to Japanese attitudes for men and women towards each other which is very different then American ones. The whole "Men have dreams that women can't understand" I've seen in other anime and manga, again this just seems like the male Japanese attitude.

Sure, it's misogynistic, but like I said I still don't see how it is more so then like the 1000s of other titles that feature women/girls getting raped and but it's okay because she secretly wanted it or some crap. I'd say it's my love for hard boiled seinen titles has desensitized me but I've read a ton of shoujo that feature that same basic story line (ex: Anything by Mayu Shinjou).

I think if it was an American comic book/show I'd be more offended because I expect a different type of attitude towards women in American media. Though I still find that sadly lacking a lot of the time too (every women needs to be defined by her need to be a mother, gee thanks Lost).

Eyre wrote:

darkchibi07 wrote:

Parsifal24 wrote:

I tried looking for Aoi Hana on Crunchy Roll it's not there anymore apparently.

I heard streaming rights expired which is a bummer. I really HOPE that some R1 company license Aoi Hana for DVD (c'mon, RightStuf, this title is right up your alley).

So that means it wasn't Apple blocking the streaming but just an expiration of the license? I guess I am still confused about the comment with regards to LGBT items being blocked on iPad. (maybe this involved the whole Flash issue?)

Its manga sold in the iPad store, not the Crunchyroll anime streaming app, which does not have any content attached to censor.

agila61 wrote:

DarkRoseFairy wrote:

The yuri part was really interesting to hear about because I don't know much about it. I may check out Maria Watch Over Us one day.

If you want to catch the stream, don't delay, Nozomi is streaming season 1 at YouTube and they do timecasts ~ the first two episodes stay up as samplers, but the following episodes go down after around a month.

Thank you, I will go check it out now. If I really like it, I will go buy the dvds(their dvd art look very pretty); it's nice that all four season came out here.

@brand
Yep. Lots of series can be offensive on some level. Mayu Shinjo is pretty bad. Sexism is rampant in manga, but that doesn't make Bakuman less any less offensive to me. I like seinen manga too. It's easier for me to gloss over sexism or any other offensive thing when it's more subtle and not stated out right in the dialog. I don't require all of my entertainment to be politically correct, just don't hit me over the head with it.

I just wanted to point out that the physical abuse of senior officers against juniors in the Mobile Suit Gundam (UC) universe is actually given an explanation; the general and wide-spread lack of discipline, poor training, even poorer equipment distribution, and ingrained elitist nature of the military complex.

The Earth Federation military (among which you see the abuse) was modeled after the military of the Soviet Union (remember, the anime is over 30 years old) where there was rampant physical abuse and hazing which still persists in the modern Russian Federation armed forces.

Counter to it, the WW2-era German styled military of the Principality of Zeon and it's later incarnations lack such physical abuse problems as do the liberalized military of forces such as the AEUG.

darkchibi07 wrote:

Quote:

... we might as well include K-ON, Aria, Ga-rei Zero, or Hitohira for that matter. ...

... and, not surprisingly, Erica often reports the Japanese language yuri forums counting several of those as yuri, even if she reckons the yuri in Aria and K-ON! is only there by projection.

...just makes the Japanese grasping straws. ...

Of course, the creators often hand out straws to grasp at.

There is the concept of insertion fantasy, and part of the ambiguity can be a way of pooling together quite distinct markets ~ some of which may not support a manga title or anime series on their own. You have the women and girls who have a range of characters to insert themselves into the place of ~ and some want there to not be any actual yuri, some of them want there to be, and some are OK if its "cool" yuri in some undefined way I am sure I would never understand; the boys and overaged boys who insert themselves in after the girls have their "experimental" love and prefer the lack of male competition; the men who are sick and tired of the pathetic protagonists holding the spot they are supposed to insert themselves into and want something to unwind after a hard day's work without being told who to identify with.

agila61 wrote:

Big Hed wrote:

Ironically, the only anime I've seen that gives a damn about military realism is Flag. There's a production team that did some homework.

That's the one that came to my mind ~ no idea why it would be "ironically", it was aiming for gritty realism in a near future SF setting (and generic not exactly any country in particular locale) throughout.

The irony I was referring to is that thematically-speaking, Flag is anti-war, so it's funny that realism should be found there of all places. But of course the best way to deliver any message is to deal in facts, which realism certainly facilitates, so I shouldn't be surprised... Still, it's ironic given that action isn't really Flag's raison d'etre, whereas it largely is in such shows as Gundam that are also (ostensibly) anti-war.

Quote:

Big Hed wrote:

... However--without seeking to undermine the validity (literary, visceral or otherwise) of existing Yuri, Yaoi, and LGBT works in general--the question that remains for me is: do these works require their own distinct genre?

Yuri doesn't really have a distinct genre in anime ~ there is yuri-light and yuri-melodrama shojo ai, there is yuri as a fanservice or a comic element in shonen and seinen ... indeed, following Erica's working definition of yuri as "lesbian relationships without lesbian identity", most of yuri in anime as opposed to manga is either in subtexts rather than explicit plot development, or played as a gag, as in STRAIN (which you can stream here). And creators can be teases, playing a game of "is there or isn't there", since of course if fans are filling in the blanks, different fans fill in the blanks different ways as suit their tastes.

There is a shorthand used by yuri watchers, "yuri goggles", which are put on and turned up to various settings to magnify any intentional or accidental hints toward yuri that are present. Aria is an example of a series where there is a substantial degree of hero-worship of one young trainee for her sempai, which becomes an unspoken romantic yearning when yuri goggles are turned up to 6 or 7 ... but then the "real" romance is in a different direction entirely.

Maria-sama ga Miteru is "yuri-lite" in the sense that the relationships are strong emotional relationships but with the exception of one character very clearly platonic, while Aoi Hana and Sasameki Koto are quite directly a yuri romance and romantic comedy even if the goggles happen to be back in the shop for repair.

Ah, thanks for familiarizing me with the yuri goggles. I suppose they aren't really necessary with a show like Simoun... and as for Aria, I apparently haven't been making use of them there.

My question was directed mostly at manga though, which certainly sports distinct Yaoi and Yuri genres currently--at least as far as I understand, given how people talk about LGBT GNs (interesting that the division exists on paper, but not the television screen). But yeah, as I went on to say later in my post, I would think eventually the distinction will vanish, and we will be left with a situation similar to what you described regarding yuri (and all of LGBT) elements in anime.

Gundampilotspaz wrote:

Charred Knight wrote:

Also the only thing they said that made me raise my eyebrow was them not knowing about Knight Hunters, which tells me that their more recent additions to the anime community as opposed to some veteran like Toole or Surat.

I don't see why knowledge of a mediocre late 90s fantasy anime should be the basis for my expertise in the subject. I looked up now that you mentioned it and I recognize the name "Weiss Kreuz" but it isn't something I've heard talked about lately. In fact, I don't think I've seen the shows name since I used to post on the Anime Nation forums seven years ago and even at that time I didn't have much interest as I've always been a much larger fan of science fiction.

But if Weiss Kreuz is something that I should be aware of, then I'll try and check it out.

Weiss Kreuz is legendary for it's horrible animation, in the media blaster's ANNCast the guest pointed out that they would sometimes accidently shoot the pencil drawings instead of the cell.

Big Hed wrote:

Ah, thanks for familiarizing me with the yuri goggles. I suppose they aren't really necessary with a show like Simoun... and as for Aria, I apparently haven't been making use of them there.

Yeah, like K-ON!, where I don't think my goggles can run that high on battery power, but it seems some yuri fans run off a plug-in power supply. For Aria, start with Aika's hero worship of Alicia, and the fact that Akira is reputed to be especially well liked by her female customers, and those are the only straws required, though there is no reason to think it is more than teasing by Kozoe Amano.

Quote:

My question was directed mostly at manga though, which certainly sports distinct Yaoi and Yuri genres currently--at least as far as I understand, given how people talk about LGBT GNs (interesting that the division exists on paper, but not the television screen).

Yes, a distinct market for publication creates "whatever the market buys" as a category, and while the breadth to support an explicitly yuri market for broadcast anime is uncertain, the market to support several serials at the quarterly and now bi-monthly level seems to be there.

agila61 wrote:

Big Hed wrote:

Ah, thanks for familiarizing me with the yuri goggles. I suppose they aren't really necessary with a show like Simoun... and as for Aria, I apparently haven't been making use of them there.

Yeah, like K-ON!, where I don't think my goggles can run that high on battery power, but it seems some yuri fans run off a plug-in power supply. For Aria, start with Aika's hero worship of Alicia, and the fact that Akira is reputed to be especially well liked by her female customers, and those are the only straws required, though there is no reason to think it is more than teasing by Kozoe Amano.

I think a lot of fans like it better when it is only implied, since it lends itself to fanfic shipping. It is just like some of the slash fanfic crowd, who see romantic implications in stuff that would have never, ever occurred to me. Though I've never been much of a shipper...

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