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The Fall 2010 Anime Preview Guide


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meike



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:20 am Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
Here's the fansub thing in a nutshell:

We don't use fansubs for the preview guide unless there is absolutely no legal way to watch the show while the preview guide is happening. Then we use the fansubs, because that's what everyone else on the planet is using and it's supposed to be a preview guide that is relevant to the audience that's reading it.

Preview guides are the only place where we cover fansubs, and even then, only when there is no other alternative. We've been sticking hard and fast to this rule (notice how the only person who reviewed Star Driver was Gia? Notice how she was the only preview guide participant who was at New York Anime Festival where the show had its official english premiere?).

We've been over this a million times now in previous preview guides and we've been doing it this way for years. ~fin~

As someone who was at the NYAF premiere of Star Driver, I know your defense of Gia is questionable.

1) Gia's update with Star Driver was posted at 14:08 EDT. The Star Driver panel started at 13:15 EDT and ran for an hour. The actual viewing of Star Driver did not begin until 13:30 EDT because there was an intro, Mr. Minami spoke to us before the viewing, and they had mic problems.

This means that Gia had her laptop out during the panel with a screenshot conveniently already prepared and was reviewing the show during Mr. Minami's Q and A. This also means that Gia paid $30.00 for the day to get wifi at the con instead of just waiting until after.

2) The screenshot Gia used very visibly has a TBS logo in the top right corner. Many subbers leave the logo on the video which is how you can tell that fansubs have been used even when there is a "legal" alternative on these previews.

3) If watching fansubs is okay when there's no legal alternatives, why isn't it okay for other reviewers to review Star Driver when there are no legal alternatives and it hasn't been licensed for simulcasting? The same goes for Togainu no Chi.
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Blood-
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Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:38 am Reply with quote
D'oh, Gia has been Columbo'd!*










*Apologies to all you kiddies who aren't ancient enough to get the reference.
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Leebo



Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 660
Location: Somerville, MA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:53 am Reply with quote
meike wrote:
2) The screenshot Gia used very visibly has a TBS logo in the top right corner. Many subbers leave the logo on the video which is how you can tell that fansubs have been used even when there is a "legal" alternative on these previews.


I'm not going to get into the timing of the panel and the update, but having a TBS logo isn't indicative of anything other than that the screenshot came from a file that used the TBS raw. It could have been the TBS raw itself, or she could have gotten the screenshot from someone who watched the TBS raw. As the shows air in Japan, 2ch gets flooded with screenshots of the episodes, and it could have come from there.

Considering that it would have been difficult to take a proper screenshot at the panel, I don't see how that means anything.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:05 am Reply with quote
DmonHiro wrote:
Key wrote:

We have an official position on fansubs and an official policy on not promoting them. That does not, however, mean that we don't use them unofficially. The two are entirely separate so there's no hypocrisy.
... Uhm... I hate to break it do you, but promoting something, like not watching fansubs, while doing the exact opposite, like watching fansubs, IS hypocrisy.
You changed what Key said. Key said the official policy is to not promote fansubs. You rewrote it to promoting not watching fansubs, which has a different meaning.

If an individual stringer personally advocates that nobody watches any fansubs, and proceeds to use one for a review, you could accuse them of hypocrisy.

But regarding an official site policy to not promote fansubs, then the question is whether or not they are adhering to the policy. If, contra above, an individual stringer holds the personal position that a fansub from a non-commercial source does no harm unless it is competing against a licensed distribution, and uses fansubs that fall in line with their position ...
... but does not link to the source, review the subtitling, or otherwise promote the fansub, that would be adhering to the policy of not promoting fansubs.
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Zac
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ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
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Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:31 pm Reply with quote
meike wrote:

As someone who was at the NYAF premiere of Star Driver, I know your defense of Gia is questionable.

1) Gia's update with Star Driver was posted at 14:08 EDT. The Star Driver panel started at 13:15 EDT and ran for an hour. The actual viewing of Star Driver did not begin until 13:30 EDT because there was an intro, Mr. Minami spoke to us before the viewing, and they had mic problems.


I don't see how this is an issue, mostly because I'm familiar with how our staff works at conventions.

Our panel reports are up and posted very frequently within minutes of the panel closing out. This is because they are written narrative-style by the author as they're happening. This is done in the interest of expediency.

It is not at all unthinkable that Gia was able to write a whoppin' 350 words about what she thought of a single 19-minute episode during that episode's runtime. She could've polished it up during the closing theme. I've done this myself during movie screenings where I was only supposed to post "impressions", not full-length in-depth reviews.

Quote:

This means that Gia had her laptop out during the panel with a screenshot conveniently already prepared and was reviewing the show during Mr. Minami's Q and A. This also means that Gia paid $30.00 for the day to get wifi at the con instead of just waiting until after.


...and? What's the issue with that? Google search Star Driver. There are hundreds and hundreds of screen shots.

Also... I mean, I don't see why this is even an issue but Gia hooks her netbook up to her phone and uses her 3G service to get internet access at cons rather than paying for con center wifi. Not that that actually has anything to do with anything.

Quote:

2) The screenshot Gia used very visibly has a TBS logo in the top right corner. Many subbers leave the logo on the video which is how you can tell that fansubs have been used even when there is a "legal" alternative on these previews.


Gia used a screenshot taken from a raw or a fansub. That in no way "proves" she used a fansub. In fact, a lot of our writers wind up just taking screencaps from Google image search rather than making their own in the interest of time (it is much faster to just grab one of the hundreds of screens already made rather than making your own, which becomes a pain in the butt when you're tasked with writing 28 individual reviews over the course of a week or two).

The timing of everything makes perfect sense if you're familiar with how our writers operate at conventions, which you are clearly not, but thanks for this, I guess.

Quote:

3) If watching fansubs is okay when there's no legal alternatives, why isn't it okay for other reviewers to review Star Driver when there are no legal alternatives and it hasn't been licensed for simulcasting? The same goes for Togainu no Chi.


Because it had an upcoming legal option. Same reason Iron Man isn't in the guide, because it has an upcoming legal option. Togainu no Chi and OreImo *had* a legal option that's now uncertain, but the guide's over now. None of this is very difficult to figure out.
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giapet
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
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Location: Washington DC
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:09 pm Reply with quote
I'll state for the record here that I was, in fact, present at the Star Driver premiere, and that it was the first and remains the only time I have watched ANY of it. I was there when Minami instructed the audience on the "kiraboshi" pose (my first exposure to that, also) and when he talked about how they wanted to do high schoolers piloting robots in a different way in comparison to something like Evangelion and I was even there way at the end when we found someone's lost badge.

I wrote notes as I went, which I was able to repurpose quickly into the brief spring preview review.

And yes, because of my crappy photographic skills, I grabbed a screencap via Google Images rather than subjecting the readers to an unhelpful promotional image or a dark, blurry photo of the screen (which the creators might not have appreciated my attempting in the first place).

Hope that clears everything up. Smile
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garfield15



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 1368
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:45 pm Reply with quote
giapet wrote:
I was there when Minami instructed the audience on the "kiraboshi" pose (my first exposure to that, also)

That was so totally awesome. I thought I would be the only one doing it, but everybody did it. We were all one at that moment.

Remember when the bad guys did it on the show and the audience went crazy? Laughing
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:28 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
D'oh, Gia has been Columbo'd!*
... as in when Columbo'd advance a tentative theory early in the show, someone would point out an obvious flaw, he'd pull his thumb and forefinger away from his forehead and say, "ya know, yur right, I shudda thought a' that".
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Blood-
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Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:34 pm Reply with quote
agila61 wrote:
Blood- wrote:
D'oh, Gia has been Columbo'd!*
... as in when Columbo'd advance a tentative theory early in the show, someone would point out an obvious flaw, he'd pull his thumb and forefinger away from his forehead and say, "ya know, yur right, I shudda thought a' that".


Precisely so.
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gartholamundi



Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 316
Location: Gainesville, FL
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:48 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
agila61 wrote:
Blood- wrote:
D'oh, Gia has been Columbo'd!*
... as in when Columbo'd advance a tentative theory early in the show, someone would point out an obvious flaw, he'd pull his thumb and forefinger away from his forehead and say, "ya know, yur right, I shudda thought a' that".


Precisely so.


haha! excellent ... now that's entertainment ... Wink
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skyhack



Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 10
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:16 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:
Cake Eater wrote:
ANN's run by a bunch of hypocrites. They keep trashing fansubs when they themselves watch them. ┐( ̄ー ̄)┌


We have an official position on fansubs and an official policy on not promoting them. That does not, however, mean that we don't use them unofficially. The two are entirely separate so there's no hypocrisy.

Oh, and do try to put a bit more substance into your posts in the future. Blatant trolling won't be tolerated.


That's rather strange. It's like a newspaper columnist saying he doesn't promote illicit drug use (illegal, as are fansubs), but that doesn't mean he doesn't use them unofficially (for the sake of the column, of course!).

"Besides, WTH constitutes a “blatant” troll? If Cake Eater is stating a fact (which Key admits), why does the use of the word “hypocrites” make it a troll?"

I admit, I watch fansubs. Tons of them. I bought Midori, Haruhi, Aria, and a host of others because I watched the fansubs first. Morally correct? No, but I wouldn't buy an American series without seeing it first, either. (Firefly rocks!)

Profitable for the industry? Yes. I still buy what I like.

The real problem with the anime industry isn't fansubbers, but the failure of the industry to use them to their advantage.

Anime is a niche market, and requires special marketing techniques.

If you can't beat the fansubbers, then make a law that lets you "steal" something back. You've got the world's governments behind you there.

Take the good subs and put them on your release. Package the shows in Matroska, just like the subbers, and make damn sure your buds in the electronics industry sell players that can handle them.

Put an extra or two in the package that you only send out with your release. (You'll beat the sub community by a whole day with that one!) If you want to beat someone who has an advantage, steal their thunder first!

Streamline your release system by getting the shows to DVD a week after they're finished airing. (That way, they're still fresh in the prospective purchaser's mind)

Lastly, DON'T OVERCHARGE PEOPLE FOR IT.

Don't think that you can start a nationwide otaku community in America, just because there's one in Japan. People will no longer pay blockbuster movie prices for three episodes of Trigun.

All that said, I'll get back on topic. If Oreimo stays out of the taboo territory, I'll but it when it comes to the US. Thanks, Mazui!
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gorbal



Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Posts: 114
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:40 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
I'm glad the reviewers reacted so favourably to Otome Yokai Zakuro because external validation of my own splendid taste is always welcome. However, there was one aspect of the second eppie that didn't sit that well with me, although perhaps it was a fansub translation problem: namely, Zakuro's comments about how some aspects of Western influence were all right, but that other important things were being lost. Maybe I'm just too sensitive, but that kind of longing for "Old Japan" (i.e. before the nasty round-eyes started polluting it with their ways) struck me as a bit reactionary. It's the sort of sentiment you can imagine being flung around at an ultra-nationalist rally. Anybody else pick up on this?


It was a heavy handed delivery of a message, but I was impressed that she said some aspects of western influence were all right. I would have felt it was much more reactionary if she went 100 percent negative.

MC does have quite the reactionary personality though. I like how well rounded and intense her character it...it's not often a female character in anime has much depth to her personality.

I might say the same about Kuragehime; in terms of having a superior female character. We haven't quite gotten to know her yet, but I love all her little movements and expressions that make her special and reminds you that Brains Base has worked with Miyazaki.

All I can say is both these series give me a good feeling and I can't wait for more.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8181
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:09 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
.......Then we use the fansubs, because that's what everyone else on the planet is using...etc.
Everyone except me. Wink

I've said this in the past when this was wheeled out as a legitimate excuse. Two wrongs don't make it right. If there is no other way of previewing a title except by using an illegal method, then I'd just as soon not know about it anyway. But at this point in time I don't see why with your connections, you simply can't ask permission from the studios for sample episodes, come on guy's it's not the 1990's anymore. If you want to live up to the badge of "Most Trusted" you have to respect your clients who are trusting you to do the right thing. It's that old skin rash called "integrity", otherwise they're just going to laugh and brush you into the bin with the rest of the internet jokers acting as all serious like. Rolling Eyes
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:19 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
But at this point in time I don't see why with your connections, you simply can't ask permission from the studios for sample episodes


This seriously seems plausible to you? Confused
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Zac
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Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:35 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:

I've said this in the past when this was wheeled out as a legitimate excuse. Two wrongs don't make it right. If there is no other way of previewing a title except by using an illegal method, then I'd just as soon not know about it anyway. But at this point in time I don't see why with your connections, you simply can't ask permission from the studios for sample episodes, come on guy's it's not the 1990's anymore.


Not that I don't appreciate the 148th sermon on the issue being handed to me but did it occur to you that we've been doing it this way for years and years, and yet we have strong connections to all of Japan's major animation studios and none of them have ever raised an objection to it or taken issue with it? Ever?

I am so bored of this conversation it's unreal. The preview's over, see you in the winter when you can roll this out again.
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