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NEWS: Woman Arrested for Uploading Anime via Perfect Dark


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Paploo



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1875
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:24 pm Reply with quote
Edzeiba, you do realize that digital right to manga are held by the manga artists in most cases? They often demand higher royalties on these editions, and can dictate pricing depending on their contract. This is why negociating for digital editions is difficult, or non-existtant in cases where they refuse to authorize digital editions [often due to the issues surrounding general and for-profit piracy]. From my understanding, royalties are also higher on general ebooks- due to the lower prices from cutting out some steps print has, authors demand higher royalties so they can make closer to what they earn on print editions per volume.

http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2010/08/surviving-in-the-manga-industry/

Ed Chavez of Vertical had this to offer "So while the comics do not need to be printed, there are still other costs that come into play (such as file fees, file conversion costs…) if there already is a print version. When there isn’t a print version there biggest costs –licensing, royalties, translation, file fees, lettering, editing, distribution and marketing — are still there. Printing is usually only 10% of a book’s costs; the rest of the fees make up more than 50%. (And with digital royalties alone tend to go up 5 to 10%)."

http://www.japanator.com/talking-to-the-publishers-about-the-anti-piracy-coalition-15209.phtml

Considering Ed points out here that manga licensing contracts are very beneficial towards creators-

"I want to answer Sanori's question here cause I see this type of comment pop up here and there.

Creators get up to 20% of the sale of each book and they often get advances in the form of license fees that cost publishers thousands of dollars per volume licensed.

Publishers might get at most 10% of a books cover price to start. Now if a book becomes a hit (say more than 50,000 copies) then publishers start to see that percentage go up to 20% (as reprints begin to negate many of the overhead costs that are needed in manga licensing and production).

So by not buying manga readers are definitely impacting the creators as much or more than the publishers."

So for digital editions, you'd be looking at up to 30% royalties from the price you pay going back to the creator, plus the initial licensing fees the publishers pay to get the rights.

http://www.mania.com/aodvb/showthread.php?t=101274&page=4

And from AnimeonDVD discussions on Vertical licensing thread [from a brief talk on VIZ's Kurohime]-
"Rights for printed titles and rights for digital titles are different; just like getting digital rights for a printed title are not one and the same. So under most circumstances technically when Kurohime switched to being an online comic the original contract would end. Viz will continue to publish volumes up to that point as long as they see fit and Shueisha will continue to grant Viz those renewal options (until the English edition goes out of print).

However even if the title is the same and from the same author under most contracts Viz would have to go an renegotiate another contract for the digital series. And generally the terms are very different in those cases, often more expensive for digital and with higher royalties because the mangaka are not paid as much per
page
."

Ed's pretty reliable, and one of the more public figures in manga publishing, having ran the http://www.mangacast.net/ before this.
Knowing that a good portion of licensing fees and royalties do go directly to the artist when I purchase manga is something that makes scanlations look all the more dodgier.


Where you might be getting confused is stuff like Ipad and Kindle ebooks. These have added costs since Amazon takes a certain % for their cut, and Apple has wierd pricing schemes- Dark Horse is developing a proprietary system to avoid Apple's profiteering entirely.
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Sunday Silence



Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 2047
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:18 pm Reply with quote
Paploo wrote:
That and other statements like this-

Sunday Silence wrote:
How can you show empathy when the companies refuse to either cater to the demands of fans, try and institute ways to beat the fansubbers/translators to the punch, or are so patently xenophobic that it'll make the Klu Klux Klan look like boy scouts?


Tend to make some comments come across a certain way. It flavours the conversation in a way I don't like, so sorry if I ranted a little, thjough I think my rants were still rooted in valid problems facing the anime industry, and takes a more realistic view on the actual market for digital stuff.


How am I flavoring the comments? Do you want me to list specifics?

Fans feel that they aren't being taken seriously by the companies a/or mangaka (see the whole shebang of artists after the creator of Kuroshitsuji decided to blow her top off by wishing harm on "thieves," which one unfortunately (and maybe unintentionally) timed to the death of Satoshi Kon). The continued ignorance of companies in not embracing technology that piracy and fans use to illegally gain copyrighted work (see Napster/iTunes, etc.). And I know in at least one case (thought it's a TV show rather than a Manga/Anime) where one of the stars refuses to license the show overseas because he hates foreigners. (which was in a magazine years ago if the issue does pop up on attribution, sorry I can't give you specifics.)

The only problem I see is that we've come to a point where the Anime/Manga companies have dug themselves such a big hole that all they can do in many cases is act like headless chickens while ignoring obvious solutions that are bloody obvious to them to take to at least apply a band-aid fix while they regroup so they can apply a tourniquet to stop the extreme blood loss. Companies as a rule need to adapt to the situations it's presented, and not act like everything hunky dory and a simple threat by lawyers (or in many cases, some overworked paralegal) will make everything right.

Quote:
Where you might be getting confused is stuff like Ipad and Kindle ebooks. These have added costs since Amazon takes a certain % for their cut, and Apple has wierd pricing schemes- Dark Horse is developing a proprietary system to avoid Apple's profiteering entirely.


I got an idea: .pdf a/or .jpeg formats. Same formats that the fanscans and other "reputable" sites use. There, I just saved Dark Horse thousands in labor costs, so bring on the .pdf of IWGP Dark Horse!!
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Moomintroll



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 1600
Location: Nottingham (UK)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:33 am Reply with quote
Sunday Silence wrote:
How am I flavoring the comments?


Through your constant, grating use of hyperbole.

Quote:
(see the whole shebang of artists after the creator of Kuroshitsuji decided to blow her top off by wishing harm on "thieves," which one unfortunately (and maybe unintentionally) timed to the death of Satoshi Kon).


The timing of those things was not simultaneous. And if it had been...so what? Somebody else's bad taste remark doesn't actually change anything in this debate.
It can hardly have been shocking news to you that creators don't like people copying and freely distributing their work without their permission and your hurt feelings are your own problem - they add nothing constructive to the conversation.

Quote:
And I know in at least one case (thought it's a TV show rather than a Manga/Anime) where one of the stars refuses to license the show overseas because he hates foreigners. (which was in a magazine years ago if the issue does pop up on attribution, sorry I can't give you specifics.)


a) Since when did the cast of TV shows have anything to do with international licensing?

b) Even if what you say is true, one incident is hardly a pattern.

c) If it was not only true but also representative of a widespread attitude, why would you even want to consume media created by people who hate you?

Quote:
The only problem I see is that we've come to a point where the Anime/Manga companies have dug themselves such a big hole that all they can do in many cases is act like headless chickens while ignoring obvious solutions that are bloody obvious to them to take to at least apply a band-aid fix while they regroup so they can apply a tourniquet to stop the extreme blood loss.


You've never presented us with realistic, workable, "obvious solutions". All of your suggestions boil down to "I want everything, I want it the moment it's out in Japan, I want it in the format of my choice, I want no restrictions whatsoever and I don't want to have to pay for it".
None of which deals with the practicalities of actually operating legally and in profit. "Give premium content away free to teenagers with entitlement issues and the magic of the internet will miraculously convert their eyeballs into billions of dollars" is not a business plan - it's an adolescent fantasy.
And without anything more substantive to back that fantasy manifesto up, it's of no more use to anybody than Xanas' never-ending assertions that everybody ought to operate in accordance with his extremist political dogma, even if they don't share his ideology and, in fact, live in a different country to him (compulsory global libertarianism is surely oxymoronic, no?).

Quote:
Companies as a rule need to adapt to the situations it's presented, and not act like everything hunky dory and a simple threat by lawyers (or in many cases, some overworked paralegal) will make everything right.


So go set up your own company and show them how to do it. If the solution is so obvious, you should make a fortune and you can say "told you so" from the comfort of your private jet.

Quote:
I got an idea: .pdf a/or .jpeg formats. Same formats that the fanscans and other "reputable" sites use. There, I just saved Dark Horse thousands in labor costs, so bring on the .pdf of IWGP Dark Horse!!


This IWGP? That's not a Dark Horse title and never was. And Dark Horse aren't offering manga on their new service (because they don't own the digital rights to any of it and, unlike you, they have to operate within the law) so it's kind of moot anyway.
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ConanSan



Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 1818
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:46 pm Reply with quote
I haven't been keeping track of the Japanese P2P Scene, is PD the latest or is this another case of some twit using Kazaa geting found out?
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:15 pm Reply with quote
Xanas wrote:
agila61 wrote:
Except for relying on technology that has required complex societies operating under the rule of law to develop.

The "rule of law" is an entirely separate matter from monopoly enforcement and creation of law.
In what way can you separate monopolies ~ which are regulated in general under the existing rule of law of many countries except when there is a demonstrable public interest in the existence of that monopoly, such as the widely granted right of a specific time-limited monopoly is granted to the creator of an original work in order to encourage the creation of original works.

The copyright and patent parts of our body of laws is part and parcel of the development of the technology that you are taking for granted when you consume a modern anime via the internet. If you wish to argue that either existing laws as written over-reach that public interest, then under the rule of law in a society governed by the rule of law, either take it to the judiciary to be overturned, or to the legislature for re-writing the law.
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Xanas



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 2058
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:06 pm Reply with quote
PM'ed you on the issue, I can't really post replies much based on Keonyn's request.
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edzieba



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 704
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:26 pm Reply with quote
Conan-san wrote:
I haven't been keeping track of the Japanese P2P Scene, is PD the latest or is this another case of some twit using Kazaa geting found out?
No, PD is the latest in the progression from Winny and Share. If this is anything like the previous cases of people being busted using PD, it'll be something along the lines of:
  • User uploads file to PD
  • Userposts on unrelated forum/BB/etc "hey, (PD uploader hash), who is totally not me, just uploaded (file)", possibly even with a forum/bb/etc username containing part of the PD uploader hash
  • Police subpoena forum/bb/etc host for user details
  • Police recover evidence user was uploader from user's computer
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holms



Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:30 pm Reply with quote
Hmz last statement was quite logical, if police really traced forums where the links was posted so, and especially if one of the forums she mentioned that it's her job or some conversation about her rips or something like that, of course these are the evidents! =)

Anyway I think it's a stupid thing to use technology like PD. It's way better to have own virtual dedicated server or just a seedbox, and to seed rips via torrent. 30$ for this pleasure is really not so much for japanese people. And it's secure. Transferring data over SFTP and then seeding them with IP somewhere from Ukraine or Russia... Your IP will never be found, and it's really easy to use at least VPN through dedicated server to post torrents.. anyway this is the most secure way in nowadays =)

And those who are arguing about piracy in here, tell me how people can watch anime overseas ,or at least me, I'm living in Lithuania, you can't buy all Japanese channels translation to your home right? How anime can be popular at all, if not sharing tv rips with other in another countries??

In Lithuania for example mostly knows "house" TV series just because of torrents, and that's why that TV series airing started in this country at all!! So piracy is in fact useful.

and ANYWAY still even if we could buy all ongoing anime and all unlicenced anime, I would spent about 150000$, if we assume that you pay 40$ for DVD.. it's impossible money!
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edzieba



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 704
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:42 am Reply with quote
holms wrote:
Anyway I think it's a stupid thing to use technology like PD. It's way better to have own virtual dedicated server or just a seedbox, and to seed rips via torrent. 30$ for this pleasure is really not so much for japanese people.
Unlike BT, PD is designed to not allow the path data takes to be traced. And why would someone in Japan pay for a dedicated server when their home connection is likely faster (100mbit+ is not out of the question in some metropolitan areas), and PD is both more secure and anonymised, and actually has files available.
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