Forum - View topicREVIEW: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 the Movie: Awakening of the Trailblazer
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JGonspy
Posts: 70 Location: Toronto |
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The whole point of Seed seems fairly clear to me. One could argue that since men are bigger and stronger than women, they are inherently better. But men can't give birth or generally live as long, so counting individual benefits that deem superiority is a bit pointless when they offer unique benefits to survival. Making the claim for a coordinator's inherent superiority doesn't hide the fact that they're an evolutionary dead end and can't exist without naturals. Essentially, the things that make us different are not nearly as important as the things that make us similar. |
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Otaking09
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Bingo. You would think humans, as smart as we are, would try to unite strength to create something great. But... we also have our own individualality, our own personal aganda. The stronger our conviction, the stronger out desire. Rather than fight for our own goals separately, we should unite and accomplish them together. As you said: "our similarities, no matter how few they may be, are often more profound and circumstantial than our differences." |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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What about the Ahb from Crest/Banner of the Stars? Their DNA is so unstable that they do not risk natural conception, instead relying on artificial insemination and artificial wombs. Biologically they are a dead end, however technologically they are not. Once the Co-ordinators figure out how to repair the genome or come up with a viable alternative like the Ahb - and doing so would be their top priority, even when governed by Lacus - the biggest limitation will be removed. |
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Cool & Twisted
Posts: 37 |
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So Kira becoming a newtype when he's the ultimate coordinator makes sense? Riiiight...
@Otaking09 Time out you said that you liked SEED because it showed war is endless and night unpreventable and yet you're saying that Kira and Raw are proof of raw human ambition. Sorry, but I disagree; oh and btw you contradicted yourself. First off both Kira and Raw are the products of a mad man. If anyone is a genius among geniuses in the Gundam franchise it's Aeolia Schenberg. People say, "CB's goal is to end all war?! Hahhahah! How stupid are you?!!!?!" Right so stupid I guess that's why by the end of 00 S2 humanity is united. Each of the superpowers of 00 that were at each others neck in the beginning came together. And all these events managed to be resolved through 100 years of planning by ONE, count that ONE man. Rau's Plan was not as philisophical as you interpret it. Proof of it is him sending Yzak off on a suicide mission. Now that's just plain DUMB. What's the point of sending away one of your best soldiers when you could have good use for him later? Operation Spitbreak was not going to be the finality of the war so what's up?
Wang was more in the middle; she gave assistance to both sides. So long as the result was that she would be free from having to continue to carry out the duties of the Wang family. |
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Charred Knight
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Aeolia's actions have left mankind easy pickings for any alien who wants to invade Earth and use humanity as slave labor. I mean the ESF can't defeat Celestial Being, and you hope that it can defeat an alien invasion who wants to use Earth for slave labor and it's remaining natural resources? The ESF would be defeated in hours. Aeolia's belief is that everyone shares his belief of a peaceful existence. They don't, mankind doesn't share the belief in peace, and if their are aliens, I am pretty sure every single alien in the universe doesn't believe in Aeolia's belief in peace.
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JGonspy
Posts: 70 Location: Toronto |
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I've never seen that series so I can't comment on it directly, but with regard to Gundam Seed, there wasn't even a hint of a practical technological solution (aside from possibly Kira, but even he needed a natural twin sister) so that's a hypothetical that doesn't really enter into the equation. I could just as easily ask the question that if Coordinators are becoming increasingly sterile, would they have significant genetic information for anything more than cloning? And even if they could clone without creating someone like Le Creuset, that would also be also be an evolutionary dead end, making Naturals all the more essential. Either one of us could be right, but unless we're using evidence from the show, it seems like we would be setting ourselves up for an endless debate of hypothetical situations. |
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Cool & Twisted
Posts: 37 |
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The only reason the ELS attack *cough* *cough* immigration *cough* *cough* was because they lost their planet to a dwarf star. Humanity reasonably incorrectly interpreted their motives when they began assimilating people. Aeolia did all the calculations and mankind were able to ready themselves before the ELS arrived in our solar system. If you paid attention to the last part of the movie (which I doubt you did) then you would've noticed how his gambit paid off. Not only did Aeolia predict the inner rebellion in his own organization but because of that Setsuna was able to awaken as the true innovator. He was able to put his skills to the test and demonstrate the ability to communicate mentally with others and achieve peace with another civilization. I don't see how anything in Gundam Seed verse measures up to that. Well then again nothing in SEED surprised me since it's so goddamn cliched. You know, the whole stereotypical accidental pilot and Gundam jack which happened THREE freakin times. It happens in the first episode of SEED in ep 34 and AGAIN in ep 1 of SEED Destiny. Another thing how the hell can that happen so often? I mean the natural I can understand it happening but how could Zaft be so naive as to let someone stroll in their hangar and take one of their most valuable mobile suits? Seriously, they should've taken examples of 00 series and had a security lock placed on it to prevent it from happening. In addition there's the lack of explanation for the survival of Andy. Also there's lack of story. It's hilarious Fukuda actually believes that his story is a truly complex one when it's not. The fact that ep 14 turned out to be a clip show is proof of that. Not to mention this same standard happens in GSD as well. I mean folks if SEED is such a masterpiece as you claim it is why is it so unoriginal? The beginning of the show is rehashed footage of Mobile Suit Gundam and the ending is a mix of F91 and Zeta Gundam. Then the next series rather then try something new is also a repeat of the former and is just like Zeta Gundam. Not to mention the druggie pilots who are probably the worst concept of miniboss squad I've ever seen(yea sounding kinda biased but hey kinda feel like da truth knawamean?). All they need is a good OS and skill then everything would be alright. And like all parts of the series it does a very bad at sacrifice. I mean c'mon rather then present some logical reason for why it's possible to escape they just do it for drama. And when I say this I'm addressing ORB's leader Uzumi. Hell, nearly a crapload of my feelings for SEED regarding tragedy feels like wangst.
Once again you're ranting unintelligibly and don't do the research. I WAS rooting for the ESF during the span of 00 S2 just not the A-laws who were similar to the Titans in Zeta Gundam. And just like the Titans the A-laws were total douchebags. In the beginning of 00 S2 they rounded up people at this working colony because some of them were members of the resistance group Katharon (which opposes the ESF) and even take Saji even though it's clear he had no idea what the hell they were talking about. And just like the asses they're based on the A-laws killed them when Katharon attacked to take back their fellow comrades. They weren't even a threat due to being unarmed and yet they still killed them. When Saji's presence was leaked to the A-laws by a ESF soldier they traced it back to the Katharon base and totally annihilated them. And here's the shocker they didn't even need to, there were barely any credible combatants there; only injured soldiers, and children. That was no mission it was a bloody massacre. I mean sure they were harboring the Gundam and the rest of Celestial Being, but hey if that'sthe case why not you know, ATTACK CELESTIAL BEING INSTEAD?! So much for the great army of the ESF being so proud and noble-like. Oh,and another shocker barely anyone in the public knew about it. Sure the public shouldn't but they're the ones who are the good guys so what are they so afraid of? Oh, that's right backlash because they know what they did was despicable. Not to mention Lindt a highly iconic *cough* asshole*cough* *cough* A-laws member that sent Sergei to his death. The man who's fighting on the same side as them and yet they treat him like crap. Oh but nooo him rationally coming to the conclusion that Saji was nothing but a by-stander dragged into the war wouldn't cut it they had to stick to their general ripper mentality.
I swear to god I am THIS close to quitting this argument with you. Watch 00 again before you say something stupid. Aeolia didn't believe anything he knew that humanity would continue warring so that's why he put his grand plan into action. It didn't matter if they didn't want to he would make them stop. And if that's not an example of love for one's and all then I don't know what is. Your belief however that humanity should continue what they're doing even if it is wrong is moronic. It's not that he would make people believe Celestial Being are gods in the flesh but that peace is what they need to continue on existing. If the world continued what it was doing then they would have wiped each other out. Hell, it'd be World War III had CB not stepped in. As you didn't know the superpowers of the world were not "friends". They were barely able to come to a truce to combine their force for an assault on CB in ep 15. Only by CB being existence were they able to.
*facepalm* Riiiiiiight which is why Setsuna was able to get through to the aliens in the Gundam 00 movie by acting as a catalyst for them to live on. They wanted peace and a home and they got it and 20 years later everyone is happy. Sooo people should act like morons and continue to fight and not come to an understanding because they're being told to even though people's lives depend on it? |
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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Who the hell said that ESL are the only aliens in the universe? What if the next aliens are like the Balmarian Empire from the SRW series, come to Earth to enslave them to use as troops in their conquests. Take what Stephen Hawking said about aliens http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/space/article7107207.ece .
War is not caused by misunderstandings, or do you honestly want to claim that the war crimes of the Nazi, and Imperial Japan where all a misunderstanding. The Nazi and Imperial Japan very well knew what they where doing they just didn't care. You can't force people to care about other people. Making people a telepath isn't going to make people care about other people. As for the Druggies being horrible villains, at least they where not so bad that the Director decided they where so worthless that he created hundreds of them to use as suicide bombers. |
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Otaking09
Posts: 637 |
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One would think that... Apparently the promise of relaying emotions via telepathy is more credible than anything practical we have in the real world... And... like Charred Knight said: Look at the Zentradi in Macross! They LIVED on war for eons, not knowing a simple alternative. It's second nature. Invading and breathing is second nature. If Setsuna mind beamed his thoughts of peace they wouldn't understand what to do with it.
War isn't endless, rather it's common because it follows a pattern. We fight in wars for numerous things; discoveries, a persons/peoples ambition, to defend. We've fought countless wars for these things. Many of the North American conquests by Europe were completely one-sided due to the technological differences. Not to mention that moving on requires that we don't necessarily forget the past actions, but learn from them and use that to work together. Creuset, after witnessing first-hand as well as being a by-product of what can cause a war, comes to a conclusion: That humans will fight like this when they discover something to exploit. Yes, they might be able to resolve, but... it's an endless cycle. Now... I say war isn't endless but... looking at our history... it's something that occurs more so than it's actually planned.
Dude, it says on many source and fan sites that half of the reason SEED did so well was that it took the raw soul of the original Gundam and used it's strengths and managed to weave in it's own message. Things like "Gundam robberies", and "different types of humans" are common. An example would be Toradora. It's nothing new, uses no special concept. Yet... why's it so popular? So widely acclaimed? Because it uses what's been done before and carefully repieces and retools the original tropes and... creates a surprising tale of "wow! Why didn't they do this before???" Saying that Gundam SEED is more of a advantage than a weakness. It enables it to be better understood by hardcore fans, and newer fans will like the updated appearance.
So... how is abiding a one man's forcefulness makes it any better? What if Aoelia wasn't a nice man? What if CB was being used under pretense? All of 00's action is under the assumption that "everything goes according to Aoelia's plan". In the real world, things go wrong. And, more often than not, there's no contingency plan. If the man was such a GENIUS... you'd think of other ways of putting out the fire... without fire!!! Heck, that's one thing 00 has with Death Note. Humanity needs to find the answers themselves. And a quick, abrupt, unorthodox, borderline-dictating fix isn't one of them. When humanity works towards something with time, care, and tenacity, that's when the fruits of their labor is truly shown. "Rome wasn't built in a day" Peace can't be earned with BOOM, BOOM, BOOM. Even if CB was a necessary evil, true peace is won without it. Martin Luther King Jr. constant non-violent struggles achieved something MANY never thought possible at the time. I don't think you have much faith in human potential. |
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Cool & Twisted
Posts: 37 |
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Then Setsuna will take their asses down with Gundam 00 Quanta. Aeolia is not implying that all wars can be solve by hugging and kissing but they should CB will continue with their interventions until the world is able to come together as one. Fight under one and become one in protecting their world. Not fighting over petty spouts because of crummy reasons like "religion" or "they mocked our culture". That stuff.
Where in my post did I state that? *checks post* Oh, right no where. you're making stuff up on the spot. Nice.
And then the members of the Nazi's that were defeated reformed themselves. Same with all the German people that were brainwashed by the Nazis. Seriously, know your history.
You can make them understand if not then you're simply nothing but a complete and total douche. I don't see what type of human being that would ever want to have characteristics such as that. If so you have no right to call yourself a human being.
When Setsuna spread Gundam 00's GN particles it brought peoples true feelings to surface and with that their true character. Also it DID work seeing as how it exposed Ali Al Saachez for the despicable bastard that he is. For Lyle/Lockon II he understood why his brother tried to take his revenge for his family and gained more respect for him (and understood more about vengeance earlier when he almost shot Setsuna in the back to get back at him for killing Anew to save him). It helped Marie/Soma understand Andrei and made him understand what he did was wrong and that he could've resolve their feud if he talked (since his father was too ashamed, ) to break the silence between them and that he Sergei had his faults. Because of that Andrei knew and had to deal with the fact he murdered his father in cold blood. Sumeragi was able to gain some insight into Billy's reason for joining the A-laws and grudge against CB being because he loved Sumeragi and wasn't able to clearly express it.
They WERE horrible. Period.
That was actually an ingenious move. The Gaga forces were second most formidable foes for the Gundams to face besides the combined forces of the superpowers GN-X's mobile suits. Seriously, now that IS creativity. The GN-X's gave the asskicking the Trinities deserved and were a handful for the meisters. I didn't see any cool elite fodders in Gundam SEED. I wonder why that is?  Oh that's right! It's because it's a shameful parody of mobile suit Gundam. The only originality that exists is Cagalli the whole my friend is my enemy, sex, teen angst, absurd amount of sexual and romantic elements in it, the Char clone Rau is an Omnicidal maniac.
Oh, and here's a funny little question that popped up in my head while I was thinking about our argument while on a walk(Well actually I've always been thinking about it). If Kira is the ultimate coordinator how could he so easily miss the point of what Fllay asked him to do in episode 9? She said it in nice simple words: "Protect my father's ship" and like a dumbass he went into battle and charged off to fight Athrun instead. Umm Kira that's not protecting Fllay's father ship. Hell, that's just pure folly on his not to mention the director's part. Some ultimate coordinator he is. |
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Cool & Twisted
Posts: 37 |
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And that's ridiculous? No, sir victory being a result of who has the sharper sword is. [quote="Otaking09] And... like Charred Knight said: Look at the Zentradi in Macross! They LIVED on war for eons, not knowing a simple alternative. It's second nature.[/quote] Well then they're morons. Living for spilling blood and nothing else is a sad way of living. Still by using the "dialogue" effect of the GN particles of Gundam 00 or Gundam 00 QUANTA can stop them in their tracks and have them come to understand that our civilization doesn't welcome violence.
Okay, first off this isn't a versus thread and secondly is GN "Dialogue" is nigh unstoppable.
So war is necessary is what you're saying? If it's in defense then I see no reason not to. However, if you're saying it's something that should be apart of human life then you are insane. If that's what being human involves then Aeolia was right to try and reform us.
Well no duh.
Rau was a lunatic nothing philosophic man that believed crushing humanity and himself would be best.
It's disgusting.
Dude, Gundam SEED barely had any message. The only reason Gundam SEED did so well was because of the extraordinary animation incorporated in it and nothing else. That and because of the teeny angst drama atmosphere and fangirls squealing at the pairing and Kira Athrun character physical features. There was more romantic broo-ha then in any Gundam. The only that can be praised in Gundam SEED are the exceptional character designs and being the first Gundam series to have improved animation. Although, IMO (actually this kinda truthful) the animation kinda ruined facial features and made some look ridiculous. Also don't say that it wasn't the main appeal because it was in spite of all the logical fallacies and flaws in the story and character personal trait it was the animation that scored with many people that called it "brilliant".
No they aren't. Well logical reasons for Gundam jackings are. Sorry, to say this but Gundam SEED's aren't. Here's a recount of Gundam jackings: 0083 Gundam Dressed in a Federation uniform, Gato walks into the Albion, hops into the Gundam, draws its beam saber and cuts his way out through the hull. There's Zeta Gundam where Kamille Bidan helped AEUG pull this off which make sense with him having the incomprehensible knowledge that he possesses. Plus, there's the AEUG backing him including (gasp) Char too. So there was no possibility of failure. Gundam X Garrod does it in the beginning and then again to get the Gundam XX and also in Gundam ZZ (a fairly forgettable series IMO) Judeau does it. In SEED series they run wild with it. It happens to the point it's just plain insane.
Okay but here's the thing bub you can't call it a masterpiece if all the ideas have been done before not to mention if it has oh.. I don't... STORY FLAWS, and LOGIC FALLACIES like Gundam SEED does. Plus, Toradora it doesn't matter since it's plain hella funny and so long as does that it's cool. Oh, and btw this discussion is about Gundam not "Toradora!".
Okay it has good animation. So? There are plenty of series with good animation. Matrix Revolutions had plenty of good animation that was much better than Matrix Reloaded. Does that mean Matrix Revolutions should receive an oscar? No, it shouldn't because it wa flawed in story pacing, and some other areas.
I don't deal with what if's but I'm making this one exception.. Aeolia Schenberg was regarded as one of the most intellectual and sophisticated person in the world during his time. He also imagined the idea of space colonization, as well as the orbital elevator photovoltaic energy system, the construction and defense of which he foresaw to employ humanoid machines not unlike mobile suits. The man contributed a helluva lot to society I don't see how anyone like that possessing any evil characteristics. And had he been evil then they would've dismissed him just like how they "handled" and excommunicated Alejandro Corner.
lol funny thing is 00's main character Setsuna Seiyuu is Light from Death Note and as well as his english voice actor for the 00 dub. Any who although the way Light went about it was wrong he truly was as he said fighting for "justice" though it's like Near said at the end he succumbed to the power of the Death Note notebook and lost himself. Light kills criminals because he believes evil people deserve to die. Since he believes what he's doing is good, anyone who tries to stop him is evil, so they must die, too. Light didn't start killing people who were (in his mind) innocent until it looked like the only way to escape being caught by L or his successors. That was his flaw entirely different from Celestial Being. Plus, Light already solidified his status as a dastardly villain when he killed Kiyomi Takada even though she had fulfilled her end of the bargain and killed Mello. It was an unnecessary thing to do especially considering how she was trapped in a building and with nothing but a cloth to cover her naked body.
You know Celesstial Being wasn't the only that helped reformed humanity right? They all played a part. The shooting pieces of the Orbital Elevator had all sides working together.
And here's another example of not doing the research. The actions of Celestial Being did not come into effect as a result of the span of years in 00 show. It took centuries for Aeolia Schenberg's plan to work.
CB wasn't evil.
That's funny because that's what Aeolia's dream is too. Be it one that has to happen this way so be it. If people can't get their act together then it's their own fault.
When things are as they look today no, but I do have some faith. However, when you spew ridiculous crap like what I'm looking yeah it is hard to have faith in human beings. EDIT: I'm beginning to think that your whole argument against 00 entirely is because how barbaric it is that one man's gambit to help reform humanity rather then humanity do it themselves. It's because you have too much pride to admit that what he did was good. Hell man, it was already a stated fact that humanity was inexcusably stupid in 00. If there isn't anyone that wants to think methodically then the person that's rational should take charge. Aeolia was that person. Rather then complain just be happy about the results. |
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akizuki minori
Posts: 13 Location: Saitama, Japan |
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Boy how I wished that the show actually make the whole element you've stated above obvious (at least, easier) to realize instead of having to analyse the compelling elements of SEED to actually get it... And I personally HATED Destiny. Not SEED though, it was actually decent, I'd have loved the show if not because of the constant, annoying flashbacks that were thrown at me... |
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Cool & Twisted
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Jesus Christ dude it's like we think just alike. Totally, agree with you SEED was decent. Although,so as you refuse to analyze certain points (like how the pilots are able to survive death etc.) of the show. |
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GWOtaku
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Figured I'd drop some extended comments beyond some short twitter messages from a ways back, so I'll take my chance to do that while this thread is active.
With genuine respect, this is where seeing 60% of the series trips you up. The twenty episodes of the second season that you missed develops the subject a lot. Without them, it is no surprise that you feel that Trailblazer dropped the subject on you out of nowhere. Anyone reasonably would. But Setsuna's Innovation occurs over the course of the second season and his character changes as well, to the point that he is acting and thinking in a fundamentally different way compared to the first season. It's almost as stark as the difference between Amuro's relative maturity in Char's Counterattack compared to the bratty kid he started out as in Mobile Suit Gundam. The meaning of that change, the contrast between him and Ribbons Almark (who considered himself above humans and sought to rule & herd them like sheep, as opposed to guiding them toward something better), the allusions to the dialogues to come at the end of the second season...all of that and more came up. Shoot, all this consciousness-unifying, newtype-esque stuff coming from the Quantum Burst and the 00 Raiser's Trans Am burst hadn't even manifested itself by episode thirty, where you stopped; I'm surprised that wasn't singled out and criticized as rushed development by you as well. This is why I honestly do hope you'll eventually get through it all and reevaluate the movie sometime in the future; I think it'd be very interesting to see how your view would change and stay the same. The movie consciously and deliberately picks up where the series leaves off. Which brings me to another big issue that I see here.....
I get that you think it could have stood better on its own, and I think you make some good points about characterization in the film and how some ideas and/or individuals didn't get their due. Shoot, I'd agree that Char's Counterattack works better as a standalone adventure even though someone who's at least seen the original Mobile Suit Gundam is going to get considerably more out of it--if only because a big part of that movie is bringing the Amuro/Char rivalry to an end. However, I don't agree that this is the only legitimate way to go. You cite Star Wars and Godfather, but here's another way to look at it: one could theoretically get some enjoyment out of The Return of the King or Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows all on their own but still miss out on a lot of context, to the point that you're simply not as enriched as devoted fans are by the experience--because you can't be. To bring in a more related animated example, Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz does not work too well on its own. But it was never meant to. It started out as a three-episode OVA created as a direct follow up to what went on in the TV series. Why is it out of bounds for a feature film to do likewise?
I'd posit that we know a bit more than that. [careful folks--ending spoilers ahoy] spoiler[Consider that the epilogue depicts a future where humanity has quite obviously progressed with the Earth Sphere Federation still holding together. Mankind's innovation is well underway, and we're preparing to leave the cradle and head out into the galaxy. Setsuna's return to Marina and Tieria's presence on the Sumeragi, moreover, shows that their mission was successful. Who knows what tomorrow may bring, of course, but yes: in the ending humanity is essentially heading in the direction that Aeolia Schenberg hoped that it would.]
You'll get no argument from me here. The message didn't need to be there at all and the epilogue stands on its own without one more presentation of a message any attentive viewer would have gotten. They overdid it there. This didn't ruin anything for me on its own, but it is a legit flaw. ____________ Moving right along, a handful of other things have caught my eye....
Well in the film, we are informed that the ESF has been drawing down its forces since the end of season two. They have fewer mobile suits. But its military strength was still considerable and they improved their hardware during the two-year time skip, as shown by the new GN-X model and the Brave mobile suit. spoiler[The Celestial Being spaceship from season two is outfitted for battle to take on the ELS.] Heck, the Gadelaza was a successful attempt to pack enough firepower for a small army onto one massive machine, a significant sign that they thought to use quality to compensate for quantity. However the ELS outclass us regardless, and it was palpable to me that humans wouldn't have had an advantage in numbers even in the best case scenario. Furthermore, I don't think it's much of a spoiler to say that the epilogue shows that we have not abandoned mobile suits (although, how they might have changed is very much up for speculation). Gundam Wing disarmament this is not.
Considering that your idea of what the second season & the movie attempt and your opinions about them are pretty much not the same as mine by any stretch of the imagination, I hope you'll understand if I don't worry about this opinion too much. You view is simply very different from mine. My take is an honest point of view; I did not hold back or toss "softballs" to cover up what I thought were debilitating flaws. On the contrary, I described what I considered good and bad points from my perspective and made clear that I ultimately didn't walk away from the movie unfulfilled, so hopefully fans will be interested to buy the movie & check it out & make their own mind up. If I had walked away badly disappointed, I would have said so. Despite some problems I wasn't, so I did not. Trailblazer is neither a flawless film nor the extreme disappointment that its worst critics would suggest--in my opinion, of course.
Not so fast. You single out Mizushima but "a dim view of war", in my words, is something that the entire Gundam franchise has in common. If you think that angle is thin and lame, that's fine, that's your opinion. But it's not something unique to 00. Gundam Unicorn's first episode has idealistic rhetoric coming from Cardeas Vist concerning Laplace's Box that is roughly on par with anything said anywhere else. In Char's Counterattack, Amuro Ray is optimistic that people can eventually change for the better and grow. This is just the tip of the iceberg, given how so much of AU Gundam tends to lean toward the idealism you find so absurd in contrast to the more somber and perhaps cynical (realistic?) tone taken by Universal Century. One distinct difference between the UC and the many AU Gundams, really, is that UC's protagonists are flawed-but-good heroes in spite of the world around them whereas in AU stories the main characters usually end up fighting to actually reach that better tomorrow. Whether the relative optimism that characterizes G, Wing, X, Turn A, Seed and 00 is ultimately an improvement or not is something reasonable people can disagree about. There are significant differences between each of course, but step back and take a look at the big picture--the status quo changes for the better to one degree or another every time, in contrast to how history repeats itself in so many ways during the Universal Century. Just some food for thought, take it or leave it. As for that "Ribbons and Ali and the Nazis could never have been defeated with a hug!" comment: Of course not, and the series never says otherwise. There's a distinct difference between doing what's necessary and saying that the necessary thing was good. This is a simple concept that really shouldn't be difficult to comprehend. WWII was both a necessary fight and a tragic event in world history that cost many, many lives. Celestial Being does what it does for most of the series acutely aware that they are living contradictions, an idea that is expressed starting with the very first episode by Graham Aker. Cool & Twisted, I think this is something you should consider as well. One could look at Celestial Being's actions in season two and take it as one big crusade to clean up the mess they helped create and reclaim Aeolia's plan from Ribbons' hijacking. On smaller scale, take Setsuna in season two, who goes out of his way to help Saji and eventually snaps Graham out of his "Mr. Bushido" funk. The Gundam Meisters themselves (especially Lockon and Alleujah) would be the last people to put themselves on a pedestal for what they did. Last edited by GWOtaku on Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:43 pm; edited 6 times in total |
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akizuki minori
Posts: 13 Location: Saitama, Japan |
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Personally, this is my own take on both Gundam SEED (and it's series) as well as Gundam 00. I realize the whole topic went off-tangent (well it was originally a topic about the review, not Gundam on it's whole), but I'll break this once to, hopefully end the constant bickering of both sides so that we can either end this topic, or go back to the original topic itself.
To me, Gundam is about war. War of both sides using their own respective technology, which would be mobile suits and battlecruisers. Pitting both sides of different philosophies and beliefs against each other to see whose side triumphs in the end, only to realize that, in any war that you witness, there can NEVER be any side that actually wins - People die, many treasured things were lost in progress, the ugly side of human desire and etcetra shown to us clear as day. It wasn't pleasant at all. Gundam fully shown us the concept of war itself in a surreal setting instead of super robot and fantasy style. A concept which it's actually possible in our future timeline itself, provided if we reached the access to the technology someday. Then, as the series progress, comes with Gundam shows that breaks the surreal concept and uses the previous fantasy, unrealistic wars/fighting concept/setting and marketed it to the established fanbase - since the timeline itself cannot be clashed with the main series that they have been expanding upon, we labelled them as alternative continuities (AU) But each series always brought the same message : War is bad. And if you ask me, The point of the whole Gundam series has a message to us : The horrors of wars. The UC-verse actually wants us to realize the horrors of war by using many negative consequences. While 00 is the total opposite - giving us another new, fresh view by ending the wars through the means of understanding between each other, while realizing the consequences each of them have caused in between. This is especially shown from Andrei (which I hated him so much I'm so glad that he got what he deserved in the movie, regardless whether he reformed himself in the end or not) SEED? By reminiscence the original UC (0079) concept and insert their own concept in between, pulling the fans of the old and create a new generation of fans along. This itself isn't bad, as SEED did a good job in trying to convey us alot in between : the struggle of ideals, genetic issues, and the story about a struggle of a young, innocent (as well as ignorant, naive) boy who is thrown into the war, and how he's going to grow from there. The problem of the series is how it's presented. In other words, the direction itself. So, regardless of what you guys have argued about - it doesn't change the fact that SEED series and 00 series both has their own strengths and weaknesses that makes them what they are. I personally like 00 more than SEED, but that doesn't mean SEED was a blasphemy itself. Creativity doesn't even matter here, as long as the show does what they intended to. If I want shows that gives me creativity I'd not watch any Gundam shows beyond Char's Counterattack (0079 -> Zeta -> ZZ -> CC) - because the shows beyond that all have elements that are taken from their predecessors. Save for Destiny, which I hated it with not a passion, but rage. Because the direction was a total mess. It didn't show me what it's suppose to show, there was no purpose or direction, and it's repeating the exact same message that SEED has already conveyed (to the point of nagging). But I don't deny the fact that Destiny has good animation, and I actually like the mecha designs, despite their functionality. And that's all, I think. |
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