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REVIEW: Toradora! Volume 2 Premium Edition


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Bento-Box



Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Posts: 1049
Location: Florida
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:48 am Reply with quote
dtm42, you're perfectly entitled to your own opinion, but I can hardly think that the romantic comedy genre is in "dire straits" simply because some people (who happen to be the majority here) think that it is one of the best RomComs.

Without getting into detail for each of the anime you listed, from what I've heard Clannad is worth watching for the After Story and the main series is pretty grueling. KnT has pacing problems and Kaichou couldn't even deliver a solid ending and character development/backstory. As for Nana, from what I can tell, it follows the manga pretty accurately - which is exactly why I didn't watch more than a few episodes. It's more like a Soap Opera than a Romantic Comedy. And, yes, there's a difference.

Is it that difficult to accept that some people don't always agree with you 100%?
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14082
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:31 am Reply with quote
Bento-Box wrote:
Is it that difficult to accept that some people don't always agree with you 100%?


How do I put this? I want to be reasonably succinct, but I also want to explain it as clearly as possible. Then again, it would be best if I wasn't too clear, as that could get me in trouble. Hmm, here's my best shot:

I don't mind if people disagree with me, but boy am I ever going to think them as wrong. And if they disagree with me on something that is really really obvious, or they disagree with me a lot, then I'm going to think of them as an idiot.*

. . .

. . . . . .

. . .

Hey, come on, telling the truth is a virtue. And trust me, you really don't want to read my first draft.

And Clannad wasn't all bad. I thought it was pretty funny, and full of touching moments. Since I loathe and detest Moe, that should tell you that it is probably very very good.



*
Of course, they probably think that I'm the idiot for daring to speak out. Therefore I'm forced to live a sad and lonely life of arguing with like four people at once in thread after thread until each one gets locked or I get kicked out. Yeah yeah, cue the violin.


Last edited by dtm42 on Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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Blood-



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 20224
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:06 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:

Of course, they probably think that I'm the idiot


Yeah, you may as well get rid of that totally unnecessary qualifier "probably."
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14082
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:11 am Reply with quote
Oh, but but but Blood-, I thought you considered me a "douchebag". Isn't that how you referred to me in the title of your PM?
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Blood-



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 20224
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:18 am Reply with quote
Yep, that's how I referred to you in the PM I sent you about your blatant lie in this post:

animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=991229#991229

Specifically your lie about how, in the Katanagatari discussion thread, I had said I wish you would die. Naturally, I found your comment in the post above about truth being a virtue highly ironic.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14082
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:24 am Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
Specifically your lie about how, in the Katanagatari discussion thread, I had said I wish you would die. Naturally, I found your comment in the post above about truth being a virtue highly ironic.


But:

Blood- wrote:
Then you leave me no choice but to hope you drop dead. Soon. And painfully.


Proof

Um, you were saying . . . what, exactly?



(And don't you dare try and edit it, I have a screenshot.)
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Blood-



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 20224
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:48 am Reply with quote
No need to edit. I didn't search far enough back in that thread. My apologies, dtm42, I actually did wish death on you. I'm prepared to let the sentiment stand.
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The Count



Joined: 22 Dec 2008
Posts: 299
Location: Milwaukee,WI
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:52 am Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
No need to edit. I didn't search far enough back in that thread. My apologies, dtm42, I actually did wish death on you. I'm prepared to let the sentiment stand.
Laughing I don't want to jump in the middle of Blood- vs dtm42 round 14, but I have to say you sir are my favorite poster. Laughing
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14082
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:55 am Reply with quote
Now that I have indeed confirmed that Blood- believes I am a douchebag rather than an idiot and that he wished - and still wishes - me dead, can we get back on to slamming Toradora!? 'Kay thanks.
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Blood-



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 20224
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:09 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
Now that I have indeed confirmed that Blood- believes I am a douchebag rather than an idiot and that he wished - and still wishes - me dead, can we get back on to slamming Toradora!? 'Kay thanks.


Uh-uh, not so fast bucko. I have withdrawn the "liar" accusation. The rest still applies. But yes, back on topic: I think Toradora! is an excellent rom-com; whether it is the best one ever is open to debate among reasonable, intelligent people. I actually put Lovely Complex somewhat ahead of it, but I love them both.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14082
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:24 am Reply with quote
Um, I'm intelligent. And reasonable too, even when I'm hopped up on Coke at 1am. So why does your post come across as implying that I'm neither? Oh forget it.

Instead, read this:

What do you love about Toradora!? What makes you think it is so amazing? What was the first episode that truly convinced you that you were watching something special? In what way does it transcend its genre conventions? Is there any scene that to you exemplifies its quality? Where would you place Toradora! in a list of notable and/or recent Anime RomCom titles?

I'd genuinely like to hear your thoughts on the matter. And it is an open invitation to everyone, not just Blood-.
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Leebo



Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 660
Location: Somerville, MA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:39 am Reply with quote
Can reasonable people disagree about how enjoyable Toradora is? No, because if you like it, there's something wrong with yo head foo.
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Blood-



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 20224
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:47 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
What do you love about Toradora!? What makes you think it is so amazing? What was the first episode that truly convinced you that you were watching something special? In what way does it transcend its genre conventions? Is there any scene that to you exemplifies its quality? Where would you place Toradora! in a list of notable and/or recent Anime RomCom titles?

I'd genuinely like to hear your thoughts on the matter. And it is an open invitation to everyone, not just Blood-.


Those are all valid questions. I feel at a disadvantage doing them justice, however, since it has been a while since I've seen Toradora! so even if I had the energy for that kind of detailed examination, it would be difficult to do. So for myself, I'll just leave this general observation: primarily because of the writing and fine seiyuu work, I was entertained every single episode. I frequently laughed with the show, I found the poignant moments touching and I cared about the characters. The show inspired these feelings to a greater degree than virtually any other anime school romcom I have seen to date.


Last edited by Blood- on Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Zin5ki
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 6674
Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:57 am Reply with quote
khryoleoz wrote:
I'm a cognitivist. Or more specifically, I don't subscribe to a non-cognitivist notion that we haven't the means or capacity or that there exists no way to reason for determining objective truths that should say something about what's normative, simply believing that what people in fact do do is what's normal.

Thank you for this clear account. For closure's sake, I admit that I do not count myself as a subscriber to the content of these beliefs. Unfortunately, the resulting disagreement between us may be difficult to discuss within the context of anime. A small amount of discourse is still possible, however:

Quote:
I appreciate what you ascribe to me, but I really don't know what you're trying to convey.

Please accept my humble apologies. To be concise, the two doctrines I had in mind were emotivism and expressivism.

As unscholarly as it may seem, I was actually enticed into the former of these by my existing interest in certain emotionally evocative anime such as KyoAni's Key adaptations, moreover by the manner in which my judgements of said anime were motivated by the emotions I entertained whilst viewing. Of course, other ANN users sometimes bring my attention to the general limitations of this idea. In face of such problems, I welcome the more general approach of the latter solution.

Now, I do not wish to use these theses as a means of arguing for the "superiority" of Toradora over RahXephon or vice versa. I have no inclinations on the matter, and I apologise if I appeared otherwise.

Indeed, a thorough evaluative comparison between the two shows may be somewhat difficult. I suspect these anime are dissimilar in numerous respects, and that in order to perform this comparison, both realists like dtm42 and non-realists like myself would require extensive methodologies for favouring one set of aesthetic properties or pro-attitudes (respectively) over another heterogeneous set. Better put, we'd both require notably comprehensive value systems in order to ascertain the normative qualities of two diverse works simultaneously.

We may well have such tools already, though I dare say it'd take some time for us to expound upon them.
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Keonyn
Moderator


Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 5566
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:16 am Reply with quote
Blood- and dtm42, I think you are done here. Once again you've managed to turn a thread in to a stomping ground for yourselves.

And dtm42, the rules specifically state that you are to be respectful in disagreements and are expected to post in a manner that furthers the discussion. Frankly, your constant "this is how I think so you are wrong because I don't think the same as you, and you're therefore an idiot" kinds of posts aren't going to fly. If you want to disagree and discuss it then fine, but when you are discussing something that is completely opinion and subjective then just telling people they are wrong for daring to disagree with you is trolling and little else. Not to mention the "idiot" accusations are not only insulting but are also disrespectful.

If this persists much longer further action will be taken. You want to disagree with others? Then start disagreeing in a civil fashion and learn to respect the opinions of those that don't think exactly the same as you.
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