Forum - View topicINTEREST: Evangelion Otaku, Former Viz Lawyer Wins Election in Japan
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kakoishii
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I dunno, I can't even take the guy seriously after this little gem. But hey if the people wanted him 
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Banken
Posts: 1280 |
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There are no numbers in either of those articles to suggest that the new laws caused a "dramatic plummet." There are no numbers in those articles at all. And seeing as how the law has only been in effect for two months, it's too early to say what long-term effect it has had on music sales. Also, the idea that a smaller anime/manga business is superior is a fallacy. The bigger the industry, the more competition. The more competition, the higher the quality. Why? Because there's more room in the market for new talent, and the more talent that comes in, the bigger the chance of finding the next Toriyama or Oda. A smaller industry means fewer employment opportunities, less money to be made, so there will be fewer manga turned into anime, fewer quality shows, fewer fans, fewer doujinshi artists, and in turn fewer new manga artists. Without a big industry with mass-market appeal we wouldn't have kids interested in drawing manga, which would kill the industry. You might think the anime industry is too big, but at the moment there are only about 20 shows on air on broadcast TV at the moment, and a little over half of those are kids shows. Basically, with a smaller anime industry, the only franchises that would make money are Pretty Cure, One Piece, Naruto, and My Melody... and those glorified toy commercials that pass themselves off as boy's shows. Because who doesn't love having a million card game shows to choose from... |
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Emerje
 Posts: 7338 Location: Maine |
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Yeah, in one breath they'll complain about how exports are down because of the exchange rate, but also that they could make the yen even stronger. There was an attempt made before to devalue the yen to lower the exchange rate, but that got shot down pretty swiftly. It would certainly be in their best interest, it would both improve their exports and lower the import of less expensive goods. If they're going to try something similar again I hope they succeed this time, sure would save me some money. However, since October we've seen the gap in the exchange rate shrink quite a bit. Right now we're at about 1USD/84JPY which is so much better than the 1USD/76JPY rate we were seeing earlier this year. Hopefully we don't see the same massive plumet we saw last Spring. I'm just happy to see it over 80JPY again, it's been a few months. Emerje |
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_V_
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...what's all this, then?!
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DTJB
 Posts: 671 Location: Dubuque, IA |
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Lawyers and anime fandom, bit of a weird combination.
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enurtsol
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Japan has actually been importing more cars lately because of the high value of the yen. 
Anyways, it'd be harder to export more anime when the most hyped anime tend to be made for very specific smaller demographics. |
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punipuniwarrior
Posts: 41 |
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And yet the entire 'anime industry' started when it was very small and was doing fine. Where do you think it came from? It's not like some businessmen sat around a table and came up with the idea of the 'anime industry' one day and suddenly 40 series per season were being churned out. I think you are also confusing 'anime' with 'capitalism', which has also shown that a bigger industry definitely does not equate to more competition, because those in the biggest companies buy out the competition and hold a monopoly. Yes it encourages competition; financial competition that only cares about making money and will do so through any means necessary. It does not encourage creative competition, take a look at the manga and anime industry and look at how many skilled professionals have quit due to low pay and dissatisfaction with their jobs. Why do you think so many famous mangaka have quit to become doujin artists when it should be the other way around? Because no manga artist or animator wants to sit there forced to complete 10 pages a day or X frames a day suffering carpel tunnel syndrome for a barely liveable wage. That's what 'competition' has done to anime and manga, it doesn't mean more effort going into creating a great series; it means the whip gets cracked harder, working hours increase, wages go down and shows are created with the intention of selling merchandise and DVDs. Look at how many adaptions we've seen since the financial downturn of 2008 alone, it costs money to get fresh ideas off the ground so creativity is scrapped in favor of what can reach people the most, and suddenly you end up with cases like the Yaraon/2ch incident because investors know that money is better spent on advertising and promotion than it is on the creative input for a series. The anime market has become heavily saturated and the need for studios to throw out a new series every season means that deadlines become shorter and a sufficient amount of time can't be spent on a series because the following project needs to be completed within 3-5 months. Quality does not sell series; promotion and marketing sells series, which means when the anime industry becomes bigger and bigger, it becomes less about creating a good, memorable series and all the money goes into a rat race between distributors for who can advertise the most and get their product out to the most amount of people. Think of it from the TV channel's point of view. At least 40 anime series on TV every season, but because the industry has grown so large there are a number of shows, maybe even double or triple the number of green-lit shows that don't get on TV. Why? Because Fuji TV or whoever has to ensure that whatever they show on their channel will get them ratings and make them money, if you were Fuji TV in the middle of a financial downturn what series are you going to "OK" to be televised? The original story with a great plot and amazing creativity with no current fanbase, or the weak adaption that at least guarantees views from fans of the source material? It's a no-brainer. If one original sci-fi show from the 70s can inspire an entire generation to become animators, manga artists, figure sculptors and kick start a huge doujin scene, then the case for quality > quantity is irrefutable. Competition is healthy, too much competition causes a saturated rat-race that endangers jobs, employee health and can effectively crash the entire industry if a big enough monopoly is grown. |
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Polycell
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So if there were less series made the studios would be more willing to take risks... nope, not buying it. The cavalcade of "mediocre" shows is what allows the bigwigs to greenlight the riskier shows. Competition in the anime industry is giving us exactly what we'd expect: more options at a lower price(the former more than the latter, of course).
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punipuniwarrior
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Yep, there were no risky yet successful shows a number of years ago. Nope, none - and anime was totally dead as a result. Totally. What's the point in having 'more options' when they all suck? There are even considerably less anime originals now than just a few years ago. EDIT: And what 'risky' shows exactly has there been lately? Basically none. |
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Juno016
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I'm not sure where you've been looking, but I've been quite happy with a few series these past few years. And I've also gone back and checked out some old stuff at the same time. Things were different--sure. But where shorter deadlines popped up, newer ways of creating great things for cheaper also popped up. I think you're confusing the actual quality of things with the change in your own perception of quality over the years and with the abundance of things you are able to watch now. If shows like Dennou Coil, Madoka, Shin Sekai Yori, Steins;Gate, etc. (dependent on your own preferences) aren't new, quality, and original ideas comparable to older stuff, I don't know what is. |
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punipuniwarrior
Posts: 41 |
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Dennou Coil is irrelevant because it was released pre-economic downturn. Madoka in my opinion was vastly overrated and the only reason it got the success it did was the vast amounts of money poured into advertising and getting it on TV, Radio and in the newspapers because Aniplex is able to spend the money on these things. Steins;Gate really wasn't that good at all, neither was Shin Sekai Yori. Madoka and Steins;Gate were the best received of those and wouldn't have particularly stood out in 2007. The only new, original idea amongst them is Madoka as the others are all adaptions (Still ignoring Dennou Coil of course) of existing works. And let's be honest, there wasn't a great deal of originality in Madoka either. But in any case, regardless of what we think; the point still stands. When deadlines are shorter, less effort gets put into anime. I don't know where this idea that somehow people are magically coming up with new ways to make better series in less time is coming from, the JAniCA is constantly going on about how working conditions are going down and how animators are only employed if they are living with their parents because the wage simply isn't livable. Sorry but it's a myth, economic downturn + saturated market does not equal improved product, quite the opposite; you can see the same happen in anything from music to cars to media and so on. It makes no sense that things would get better and evidently they are not. |
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Juno016
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... ...Indeed, Steins;Gate and Shin Sekai Yori are adaptions and might be irrelevant to the argument at hand. *cough* Though, if Madoka was "unoriginal," then I think that has to do more with the fact that it sets up common, generic stuff to subvert intentionally. But old, well-received shows like Utena and Evangelion did the same thing, so I'm not sure that works for an argument against "originality."
To be more precise, I'd say the production values are cut short a lot of the time because of this. Some things aren't even animated until just a few weeks before the actual broadcast. However, if we're talking about the planning stages of creating and setting up a good, original anime, I think you're underestimating the talent in today's field a bit. Some anime are only planned a few months before being aired, but those are few and far inbetween, or are adaptions of other works and only require minimal planning to adapt them. Original stories, however, are usually planned anywhere from 1-6 years beforehand. Madoka's planning took around 3 years, I believe (from the end of 2008), and even AnoHana was planned around 3 years before its broadcast. REDLINE is far from "original" in old context, but in order to stand out today, they spent around 6-7 years planning and animating it at Madhouse. I think we should try finding better examples if we want to argue either way, but the fact that these things exist mean it's far from as bad as you make it seem. There's plenty of potential. If anything, I believe the sheer abundance of shows that exist now are only impeding on the possible number of potential "original" things out there (at least, we, the audience, see so many different things now, we notice a lot more of the similarities that exist between them and new stuff). In fact, a lot of old anime from the industry's beginning and developing stages of independent production companies (Mushi Studios, Studio Ghibli) copied several ideas from literature and even hollywood movies. It's hard to find anything that is truly that "original" even back then. Things certainly play out differently in anime today than they did before today's levels of mass production and the downturn in the economy, but that also has to do with the slight changes in standards of storytelling, the INCREASE in things companies are able to do in anime, the current market interest, and the demand that exists today. To break it down: 1) Storytelling seems to have generally changed from slow developments into faster developments to keep the audience interested. Proper pacing is sometimes sacrificed, but you'll notice a lot more "exciting" things happening in a good number of series today over what you might find in older series. If you prefer proper pacing over excitement, though, just look around. A lot of shoujo series tend to excel in this and I've even seen some great action series do this as well. 2) Companies can produce more for less time and money. So in comparison to many years ago, where great animation made a budget and talent very obvious, "great animation" is now all too common. In some ways, this devalues the quality of animation, but at the same time, I've seen some really powerful scenes in anime as of late that have had me on the edge of my seat. "Momo e no Tegami" is a great example of great pacing AND animation to come out just in the past few months. 3) The current market interest is different than the old market interest. Mecha otaku still exist, but in far less abundance, and scifi fans are still out there, looking for post-modern stuff, but the general public and a good majority of otaku don't have as much interest in that stuff. Yet that still hasn't stopped the creation of good mecha series or scifi series, or even just elements, from coming into existence recently. I enjoyed Gundam Unicorn and Gurren Lagann, at least. 4) The demand has changed. This is part of the issue you have, but... you just can't change it anymore. Smaller independent companies would not be able to keep up with this demand and their productions would take far too long to pay back properly. This is why bigger companies have the models they currently have today. All these less-expensive, but promising investments help them afford to make higher quality stuff and take risks. If a smaller company made ONE production mistake that cost them a bad return for their ONE major investment, they would be wiped out. The market, of course, has always worked this way. But the world changed, and with it, the demands of the fans in this industry. It's just how it is. So I think they make due quite well for such a situation. And I really don't think it has affected how much I enjoy some anime now, anyway. I can find just as many old mindless fun anime as I can new mindless fun anime, and the same for old gems and new gems. :/ Of course, if you aren't enjoying anything new in the market, you can always quit while you're ahead. |
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Snomaster1
 SubscriberPosts: 2796 |
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An "Evangelion" fan and former Viz lawyer wins an election in Japan. Well,stranger things have happened. People from odder backgrounds have been elected to high office. This one is one of the stranger people who've been elected.
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punipuniwarrior
Posts: 41 |
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Thank you for your lengthy reply.
I think first of all, we need to define 'old' here. I've been watching anime for a very long time. To me, 'old' is anything before the 90s...but most of my favorite series are actually from the 90s/early 2000s and I wasn't much of a fan of 80s anime. In this context, my distinction between 'new' and 'old' is somewhere between 2008-2009, the reason for this is because there seemed to be a very sudden change in around that time. I hear a lot of people talking about how anime is better nowadays because shows like Bakemonogatari are breaking sales records and BD and merchandise is selling like hotcakes. Firstly from a moral(?) point of view I can not support the notion than financial success equates to a universal form of 'success' because I don't believe that the best things are necessarily the ones that sell the best and I'm sure most people will agree. Secondly I can't support this notion from a logical point of view because much like any popular media (the music industry springs to mind for me because I work in this field), the popularity is largely (if not completely) dependent on its promotion and advertising. On top of this, something I have noticed from living in Japan for long stretches of time is this: The market for anime has changed. I find it interesting when people say "Slice of Life shows with cute girls sell really well because there are lots of dedicated, obsessed otaku who buy them" because this is actually very far from the truth. I have followed and actively participated in the Japanese otaku scene for many years and still do; these otaku are not buying K-ON goods en masse, nor are they queuing up to buy DVDs of Chu-bra or Juuden-chan; what actually happened (For reasons I don't know, but have some theories) is that somewhere around 2006-2008 the demographic of anime fans shifted from Japanese otaku to Japanese Junior High (middle) School kids and they are the prime consumers of the anime we've seen on our TV for the past 4 years or so. I don't know why this is, or even if it is intentional, but it is common knowledge that this age range of 13-16 year-olds are the prime target for companies that market fashions and fads because these children have the highest disposable income and the most amount of free time. So in light of this, I feel it's wrong to compare the success of TV anime in the late 2000s/early 2010s to TV anime of the early 2000s and prior; because the market has changed dramatically. I think this logically coincides with the sharp over-saturation of TV anime from around the period of the market expansion; simple supply and demand. But as with any over-saturation - quality is always sacrificed, yet moreso in anime. Please hear my reasoning out. I'll explain using a music example; with the sharp adaption and expansion of the internet we have received an avalanche of music as it has created a level playing field for artists to promote their work. mp3s are instantly sharable, soundcloud, facebook, social media creates a great promotion platform and getting music onto the iTunes store is a very easy procedure. This means that we are inundated with music; much of which is very bad. The common retort to this is "Yes, but there is good music out there too; you just have to dig deeper" and I completely agree. However in anime; this does not work. Anybody can make music nowadays; not great music, but music nonetheless because there are a wide variety of tools available to help people create music with minimal effort or musical proficiency. In anime, no such thing exists. Creating an anime takes an awfully long time to make with a studio and a dedicated staff, which means not everybody can make anime; a studio is required, staff are required and a LOT of cash is needed for the purchase and maintenance of these things. As far as anime goes, what we see is what we get, and because money is such a lynchpin in the process of turning an idea into anime (even moreso in the economic climate) it means that the potential financial success of a series is the deciding factor on whether it reaches the end consumer. The problems with this should be self-evident. If not, allow me to use another music example: Art is as much of a creative effort as it is a physical effort; a well written song will sound great on a tinny radio as well as on a great set of speakers. A well produced, sonically balanced song with poor, uninteresting songwriting will never truly sound good. Creative ideas are of higher value than technical skill. The truth is that you can have your hit single or successful manga picked up by a major label/animation studio who can throw bags of cash at production/animation and make it look stunning, but the creative idea will never be improved or enhanced no matter how much money you throw at it. In fact, this often rushes the creative process and produces a less than satisfactory result; I see this happen constantly. As an artist and as someone who works with very famous artists I can tell you now that money is only ever an incentive to work harder, not smarter. But let's get back to the point. It is indeed inevitable, and I am thankful that every few seasons a series comes out that I enjoy. But if we look at the bigger picture, has anime really 'evolved' or has it just gotten bigger? The animation may be excellent, but is the idea really that fresh? Do we really benefit from making short-term, forgetful series to keep profits turning over in sacrifice of making few very memorable series that raise standards and inspire creativity? What will happen when the market changes? When the masses are sick of anime and the trends change? When ideas are recycled and people lose interest; how does anime recover from that? Ideally we need a doujin anime scene much like we have an indie games and music scene. That's the best thing that can happen, something that provides real choice and opportunities for people wanting to make anime, instead of having to break past the barrier of red tape and profit. |
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Banken
Posts: 1280 |
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Making a doujin is hard. Making a doujin anime would be nigh-impossible for most people. The amount of work required is exponentially higher. Yes, there was a guy who made an anime by himself... but people like that are far and few between. Also, most doujin anime are hentai parodies...haha
Also, the profitable shows aren't the short quality ones that play at 1 AM (and they all do, even Macross Frontier), they're the popular ones that have been playing for 10+ years in prime-time. They're the ones that pull in major sponsors and sell goods. Go into any Japanese elementary school and at the very least 1 in 3 kids is wearing or has a One Piece good on them. |
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