Forum

I'm glad Bunny Drop got some love this week. It truly is an exceptional story and I hope the series will have a complete run in the states. (I'm not sure if it's a gamble to put a josei series out on the market, even one as good as Bunny Drop.) You definitely don't have to be a parent to appreciate it, but as the mother of a four year old, I could really relate to the every-day problems the protagonist had with Rin.

Arakawa Under the Bridge is absolutely hilarious. It's not often that I laugh out loud while reading. Thanks for giving it some love too.

As always, I enjoyed reading your article. Thanks!

Someday there will be a Right Turn Only!! that doesn't result in me putting something on hold at the library, but thus far it has not happened. Bunny Drop, eh? Sounds interesting.

Quote:

EVIDENCE AGAINST:
Big contrasts may be what make the series shine, but those highs and lows do have one thing in common: a shallowness that keeps the story from being genuinely effective. The battle between Sebastian and Grelle ends up dragging on way too long, with the two of them trading empty taunts and threats as if this were some angry dinner conversation instead of a fight for one's life.

I thought it was discussed after the battle that Sebastian was awaiting orders from Ciel. He's somewhat like Alucard from Hellsing--overpowered for most battles so he doesn't always have the desire to exert his full power.

Quote:

If they'd actually fought with clever, elaborate attacks, instead of just leaping about and making flashy stab-stab-stab moves while yelling at each other, this might have been an engaging fight, not 60 pages of noisy action.

This is Grelle's big blowout--we don't ever see him again in the manga as I understand. (We do see the other Reaper). The character is really too much fun not to splash over 60 pages. This also reveals-for all the yaoi fangirls drooling over the imagined relationship between Ciel & Sebastian-that Sebastian isn't necessarily into guys & thus his interest in Ciel is for another reason. (Yeah, I know it doesn't stop all the doujins from doing their thing).
Psychoboys are too much fun to stop before they've ranted on several pages.

Quote:

Similarly, the last couple of chapters rely too much on idle conversation instead of really exploring the emotional aspects of Ciel and Sebastian's existence;

What emotional aspects of Ciel & Sebastian's existance.
As his aunt pointed out--the family was wiped out in a fire-CIel's body was never found. Ciel resurfaces alive, but accompanied by Sebastian. We have seen Sebastian pretty much killed (unless you choose to believe he dodged all the bullets or maybe he's more bulletproof than his clothes that were ruined in that little Italian excursion), yet rise at his master's bidding. What warm fuzzies could you be looking for?
Another way to look at it-Sebastian's only doing what he's ordered to do. Otherwise it's like a genie giving an extra wish.

Quote:

somehow it always takes five pages to express a sentiment that should only take one ("Protect me, you fancy black-suited butler!").

Dude, you need to re-read this & much more slowly.
In that time Ciel vanished, he was kidnapped-obviously. (Unless you want to believe he killed his family & then resurfaced.) When he re-surfaces, the ever-present Sebastian is at his side protecting him. Does it not stand to reason Sebastian therefore had something to do with Ciel's freedom? Does it also not stand to reason, given the demon butler line Sebastian always uses, he is exactly that & Ciel contracted with this creature? Most likely that the child, in a most dire situation, offered the usual (soul) to be rescued & the devil he bargained with obtains the prize at the end of the deal? Did you not notice all the little snips & snipes between the two? When Sebastian did exactly as he was ordered gathering useless information on Ripper suspects because that was what Ciel ordered last volume?
Sebastian is enjoying himself. The longer Ciel lives, the blacker his soul will likely become serving as the dog of the Queen.
This may run in a shonen magazine, but it really has more shojo sentiments. Things are not blantently proclaimed. This title has a certain subtlty to it.
Everything is going to take awhile to unfold. If you're attention deficit, this isn't the title for you. You have to savor all the little hints & clues dropped about the relationship. We see the bargain & we see the damage Sebastian is capable of inflicting, yes, but more often this title mentions in passing things Sebastian did before Ciel named him & bound him. Remember the "pet" Sebastian recalls as he's feeding the cat?
Again, the hunting bit at the end allows us to see more of the relationship between Ciel & his betrothed. We meet the future mother-in-law. We learn how competative not only Ciel is, but also the mother. We see more of Sebastian's adaptability dealing with the screw-ups of the other staff yet maintaining the facade of the unflappable butler Ciel has bargained for (which was also part of the contrast with Grelle-that Grelle behaved outside the acceptable behavior for a butler.) We also see future mom-in-law is suspicious of Sebastian or maybe that she's picking up some behavior ticks others miss or ignore that she feels he's indecent in some way.
And of course we again see Sebastian's deadly skill against the bear, yet also to pull it off undetected by most.

Seems like Bunny Drop is the highlight of this RTO. I love engaging human drama stories, especially when the plot and characters are so believable. Another addition to my list!

Quote:

because some of their personality traits seem weird for weirdness' sake—like being obsessed with only walking on white surfaces.

Huh?
You mean you've never done that thing where you obsessively only walk on the white/yellow lines on the field/footpath? (Alternatives=not stepping on cracks, only treading on tiles of a certain colour)
I thought it was a pretty common thing to for kids to do and for some older people to do it for the hell of it...the joke in Arakawa is that Whitey takes it so seriously.

@CCSYueh if Carlo doesn't like Black Butler, he doesn't like it. Justify it all you want, not everyone is into Black Butler and not everyone gets it. Re-reading Black Butler will not change his mind.

Youkai Warrior wrote:

@CCSYueh if Carlo doesn't like Black Butler, he doesn't like it. Justify it all you want, not everyone is into Black Butler and not everyone gets it. Re-reading Black Butler will not change his mind.

Yeah, this. Even as a fujoshi I think the pandering of Kuroshitsuji is too much.

That and I think Sebsatian is a gigantic gary-stu, but fangirls tend to get mad at me when I say that.

Let me be another voice to the chorus giving high praise to Bunny Drop Volume 1 & 2. I can't recommend the story enough. In fact, reading the review makes me want to re-read volume two to absorb more what the mangaka tells us about Rin's biological mother. The first time through I wanted to reach into those black and white pages and shake her (the mother) around a little. An excellent story that makes one wait far too long for the next volume.

championferret wrote:

Youkai Warrior wrote:

@CCSYueh if Carlo doesn't like Black Butler, he doesn't like it. Justify it all you want, not everyone is into Black Butler and not everyone gets it. Re-reading Black Butler will not change his mind.

Yeah, this. Even as a fujoshi I think the pandering of Kuroshitsuji is too much.

That and I think Sebsatian is a gigantic gary-stu, but fangirls tend to get mad at me when I say that.

I'm going to have to third this as well. While the art is great, the flaws in the plot are kind of obvious. It's kind of too bad that a series with so much potential can't seem to get itself together or get out of trying to attract bl fans, and the anime certainly didn't help this either. Every time I try to read I just wind up going back to something else (usually Kaori Yuki, because Count Cain is quite similar Surprised

)

Youkai Warrior wrote:

@CCSYueh if Carlo doesn't like Black Butler, he doesn't like it. Justify it all you want, not everyone is into Black Butler and not everyone gets it. Re-reading Black Butler will not change his mind.

I have no problem with Carlo hating Black butler. I'm surprised any guys would read it because it is such a chick title.

My point was he seems to be wanting this title to behave like the usual Shonen Jump male title where the important points are explicitly explained (often many, many times). This is more shojo on that point. Black Butler beats around the bush. If you note, my comment was over Carlo's

Quote:

somehow it always takes five pages to express a sentiment that should only take one ("Protect me, you fancy black-suited butler!").

This title doesn't sit down at any one point to explain any one point. I recall the endless ire I used to see from American fans at the then "typical non-ending" of titles like Slayers because a certain style of Japanese storytelling is indirect, leaving a lot up to the audience to decipher rather than spelling it out.
I'm the opposite on Yuki. I have the 2 artbooks Viz put out & the first part of Angel Sanctuary (10-12 volumes) unread in a box I intend to get to someday, same for Godchild (was following it in Shojo Beat, but not really motivated to follow it out of that zine). First volume of Grand Guignol was interesting, but I can't say I'll continue past the usual few volumes. There are similarities to Kurishitsuji, though with fairly important information casually dropped into the story here & there vs the explicit "this is what this means" Carlo seems to want.
Basically his gripe was the age-old male perspective vs female perspective where the guy wants to hunt it down/eliminate the problem while the gal wants to talk about it/vent/whatever. Kuroshitsuji isn't Bleach. There isn't a fight every other chapter, but there also isn't 20 main characters allowing there to be so many fights.

Quote:

get out of trying to attract bl fans,

But it works for so many titles like Saiyuki which I also love. And the author has done yaoi so there's a similarity to Minekura, isn't there?

And wait--there's a Faust plot to Count Cain?
Maybe I do have to pick it back up.

The pandering to fujoshi definitely drags Black Butler down. The story is an awesome concept that appeals to both genders, but Toboso can't stop throwing bones to her female fans. It's not like she desperately needs to attract more viewers (500k+ sales a volume?), so I really do not understand why she keeps doing it.

In comparison, Pandora Hearts has very little BL themes. It's very slashable, but it has an actual story that isn't about a master/butler relationship. Black Butler, if you think about it, is about a master/butler relationship, and the story is just an add-on. Everything just feels tacked on.

Nabari No Ou has a bunch of BL themes, but the author embraced it and decided to write about the relationship between Miharu and Yoite instead of adding tasteless fanservice every couple of pages. Black Butler should either come clean as a BL series (like NnO/Saiyuki/Hetalia), or back off and realize that males read shonen too (even if it's GFantasy, which is the borderline between shonen and shojo).

Quote:

Basically his gripe was the age-old male perspective vs female perspective where the guy wants to hunt it down/eliminate the problem while the gal wants to talk about it/vent/whatever. Kuroshitsuji isn't Bleach. There isn't a fight every other chapter, but there also isn't 20 main characters allowing there to be so many fights.

Right... Carlo just doesn't get it because he's male. And because he totally has never criticized Bleach for lately becoming nothing but fights. Nor are his "negatives" ever Devil's Advocate positions. Rolling Eyes

Look, I sit here posting as a woman who couldn't stand more than a half a dozen episodes of the anime and a few chapters of the manga. Kuroshitsuji is a weak series. It is uneven in tone and completely wastes its badass demon lead on pathetic fujoshi-pandering (where there's never any actual romantic payoff) and "funny" moments (I put it in quotes because mostly they are just annoying).

There. Now get mad at me and leave Carlo alone! Wink

vashfanatic wrote:

Right... Carlo just doesn't get it because he's male. And because he totally has never criticized Bleach for lately becoming nothing but fights. Nor are his "negatives" ever Devil's Advocate positions. Rolling Eyes

I really don't care if he specifically despises Bleach & uses picture of Tite Kubo as a dart board. I merely protested he was being a bit harsh on a fight designed to highlight a particular character who really was much too fun to waste. It's like paying all that money to get Marlon Brando for 10 minutes of Superman--Toboso created Grelle & needed to get her use out of him. He introduced Reapers & his superior to the story so he accomplished his purpose & was delightfully unhinged. I also protested Carlo wants a shojo title to not dilly-dally.
Combined with the fact we saw in Volume 1 pages 162-179 Sebastian, like Alucard, has a self-imposed lockdown system, following Ciel's orders to the letter. He knows damned well what Ciel's intent is, but Sebastian makes Ciel order explicitly what he wants his demon butler to do.
Yes, Carlo highlights the cons, but the cons he went for were blown apart more than were valid for my money, considering we've seen this behavior since Vol 1 of this title. Sorry to have a different opinion.

vashfanatic wrote:

Look, I sit here posting as a woman who couldn't stand more than a half a dozen episodes of the anime and a few chapters of the manga.

I have no doubt I'll be less than thrilled with the anime from what I've read. I wasn't a big fan of the first FMA because they made up a majority of the title which it sounds as though they did on Kuroshitsuji. I still have the first FMA purchased as single dvds so I could get the cool tins. The manga, on the other hand has improved in later volumes.
Manga I will usually go a couple volumes before I dump. As I said, Grand Guignol Orchestra Volume 1 shows promise, none the least the suggestion one of the characters is something akin to a eunich which would be unusual, but the way it was thrown out, it could have been a red herring within the story arc.

vashfanatic wrote:

Kuroshitsuji is a weak series. It is uneven in tone and completely wastes its badass demon lead on pathetic fujoshi-pandering (where there's never any actual romantic payoff) and "funny" moments (I put it in quotes because mostly they are just annoying).

Sorry, I tried reading DiGi Charat. I don't think any joke could be as un-funny as the "jokes" in that manga. My daughter was 12 or 14 & thought it was incredible. Of course she also like Crayon Shin-chan back then also.
And I really don't see the BL pandering. What I love is the very nasty undercurrents to Ciel & Sebastian's relationship which we saw in the first few pages of the title. It's obvious Sebastian's plans for Ciel are long-term, not short. There's much more pandering in Kyo Kara Maoh (& Yuri is pretty clearly not into Wolfram) & Saiyuki & the only potential relationship in that one might be Hakkai & Gojyo & that would have to be more sex friend than any real steady relationship. There may be more to that one in the prior incarnations in heaven.
Just in case one has missed all the hints in the last 2 volumes, the fight with Grelle sort of makes it clear Sebatian isn't into guys. Of course, he also made it pretty clear on pg 175 of vol 1 "I have no interest in man-made rubbish, coin or otherwise" when the Italian mobster offered him money, booze & women."A "sacrifice", a "wish", & a "covenant" bind me to my master until I claim his soul"

vashfanatic wrote:

There. Now get mad at me and leave Carlo alone! Wink

Why on earth for? I'm fairly sure I've agreed with him on some other reviews & disagreed with him on others. I read a lot of manga. I really suspect my tastes run opposite of yours. Most shojo I seem to get tired of before the author does-often by about 6 or 8 volumes. I was really enjoying Blackbird, but it seems to be moving into endless as has DNAngel. I probably would have wanted it to have ended by this last volume. I was really enjoying Queen's Knight & Lilling Po, but it looks like we're not seeing the end of either. Angel Diary never got as good as Demon Diary & Legend has gone a volume or 2 too long. It'd be wonderful to get more Wild Adaptor & Saiyuki. Mail I enjoyed more than Kurosagi Corpse Delivery. Tales of a White Night was odd & interesting. Soul Eater is interesting, but not edge-of-seat. NnO is probably a couple notches below that. SDK was great & Fairy Tail is interesting. I save Excel Saga, Gintama, & Sayanora Zetsubo Sensei until I can devote my full attention to them & read them in one sitting. Saiunkoku Vol 1 was incredible.
I read Black Butler the day I get it.
But whatever. Obviously my opinion sucks. I was one of the 5 people on the planet not impressed with Avatar. We're all supposed to agree with all the reviews on this site. Smile

You're never going to be able to read Excel Saga or Gintama in one sitting.

I'm not sure how long the Zetsubou manga is so I won't comment on that.

I mean each volume. Gintama 20 should be in my hands next week & I will take an evening to read it(there are a lot of words in that one. Unlike a lot of manga Gintama & Zetsubo have it seems like half again as many words as the average manga) Excel I have to read the Oublette note, then read up to the spot that note pertains to, read the next note, then read up to that page...It's really involved, but I feel as though I'm getting a better feel for it. The manga is fun without the Oublette, but if I can read it with more of the understanding of the average Japanese reader who has the culture behind them to help decipher it, then it's better. It's like expecting Japanese readers to get all the cultural refs in the average American comedy. Unless they have lived here, they probably won't understand most of the things ref'd in the jokes.

Black Butler's around an hour because there's a lot of little tidbits to try to memorize so I won't have to re-read the last volume to remember the events so I can read the current volume. Vol IV gives a glimpse of the bargain Ciel made with Sebastian as we meet Prince Soma & his servant Agni who are contrasted with Ciel & Sebastian. Vol VI moves into the circus/missing children plot which is fairly dark.

edit-
While my roommate has my Vol 3 still, I note in Chapter 8 during the chess game (yes, how many times have we seen a chess game used between the detective & the suspect in a mystery title?) that (pg 128) Madam Red comments on Sebastian's skill as though she is pinning Ciel's success as the Queen's watchdog on the skills of his butler, but Ciel points out "I always give the orders, & without them, he has been disciplined to move not so much as a muscle" In the last pages of this chapter & the next/last chapter of Vol 2, we see Ciel become a bit perturbed at Sebastian for not being explicit in his presentation if information gathered to his master. Sebastian specifically (in Ch 9) comments "Young Master, I thought you kept me by your side knowing full well what I am like." after Ciel has thrown a pillow at him when he realized Sebastian had been less than direct in his revelation of information gathered on the murders.
The problem is, considering the book runs in a monthly zine, the collected books split the story so it's easier to forget what went on in the last volume. However, Carlo's complaint about the length of the fight relates to the passage in the chess game where it is revealed Sebastian does not move without Ciel's explicit orders as indicated by the discussion between the 2 after the fight that Sebastian was waiting for some signal to move yet Ciel trusted his aunt would be unable to harm her own blood.
There are many, many moments where Sebastian is noted as smiling, yet he has mentally railed against his "brat" master & how unfathomable humans are so those fujoshis you're all fixated on drooling over shotacon are likely very wrong. The only thing Sebastian is likely interested in is that soul he's bargained for. One can argue the idea Sebastian only moves on Ciel's orders corrupts that soul, sealing the boy's fate.

Forum - View topic
RIGHT TURN ONLY!! - Cross Your Heart

Tatsuki Fujimoto's 'Look Back' Anime Film Unveils Trailer, Theme Song, More Staff

Voice Actor Dave Underwood Dies at 57

The Spring 2024 Anime Preview Guide

Fans Say Farewell to Yokohama's Life-Size Moving Gundam

Crunchyroll, Crypton Future Media Criticized After New Hatsune Miku Concerts Forgo Transparent Displays

This Week in Anime - What Do You Do When Your Fav Anime Isn't Simulcast?

Ragna Crimson Manga Volume 11 Review

Gundam SEED FREEDOM's Rie Tanaka, Sōichiro Hoshi Share Memories at Los Angeles Premiere

Kurayukaba and Kuramerukagari Anime Movies Review

Forum - View topicRIGHT TURN ONLY!! - Cross Your Heart

Forum

Forum - View topic
RIGHT TURN ONLY!! - Cross Your Heart