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NEWS: Writers, Lawyers Oppose Revised Youth Ordinance Bill


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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:18 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
This is such a storm in a tea cup, it's only about restricting sales to minors. Rolling Eyes

No, it's a big issue because much of the industry relies on things that are also accessible to folks in high school. This bill has nothing to do with adult material, which is currently restricted anyways. Passing this would polarize the industry as it would create things that are now either purely for children--I mean real children, not minors who are in fact, young adults--or stuff that is strictly 18+ ala hentai, with nothing in between. And I'm sure other merchandise like figures would be affected, given how the bill also requires stuff like internet filtering on mobile phones.

There's nothing wrong at all with the system now so there's no need to "fix" it with some idiotic "think of the children" law (in part from outside pressure). It's also the reason why I think Funimation's and Viz's (and youtube's) and other's ultra conservative restrictions resulting in a highly polarized self rating system are ridiculous, with the exception of Media Blasters. At least though, those are not legally compulsory for publishers nor enforced on consumers.

I should note that this only concerns Tokyo, so in theory businesses could just relocate to say, Kyoto and operate as before, but Tokyo is the hub that affects everything else.


Last edited by configspace on Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Running Wild





PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:22 pm Reply with quote
Japan needs to make lolicon and child porn illegal.

Freaking pedo's.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:32 pm Reply with quote
Running Wild wrote:
Japan needs to make lolicon and child porn illegal.

Freaking pedo's.

Rolling Eyes Another zealoted crusader.

I suppose you were cheering when Chris Handley, someone with no past offenses whatsoever, had his life completely ruined, huh? And how are you going ban it anyways? How the hell are you going to determine if a character is under 18? And despite all the furor did you know that sex crimes (violent assaults, rapes) have actually decreased in Japan?

And for your information, real child porn is already illegal in Japan and has been since 1947. I've discussed it here
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Key
Moderator


Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 17106
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:53 pm Reply with quote
Running Wild wrote:
Japan needs to make lolicon and child porn illegal.

Freaking pedo's.


If you don't intend to post something more productive and discussion-worthy than this then you're better off not posting.

Consider this a Moderator warning.
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Olivine



Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 197
Location: Sol 3
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:05 am Reply with quote
After reading this: http://dankanemitsu.wordpress.com/2010/11/24/bill-156s-total-scope/
I'm pretty convinced now that this is pretty screwed up. Don't mind the stuff I said in the last thread. Anime catgrin + sweatdrop

configspace wrote:

I should note that this only concerns Tokyo, so in theory businesses could just relocate to say, Kyoto and operate as before, but Tokyo is the hub that affects everything else.


I'm thinking that's what's going to happen if this amendment passes. It might even be a plus for the industry in the long run.

i.e. The companies move to non-Tokyo cities, but they still want to get to the Tokyo market. The answer? Online distribution. Servers would be outside Tokyo jurisdiction, so they couldn't be affected (I think?). They have the "minors' communication censorship", but that only will work until kids bug their parents to switch it off (now that almost all their entertainment is blocked, it might be easy). Conventions could just move outside the city, too, so doujinshi shouldn't be hit too hard.

I also wonder. Does this bill have any ability to restrict minor's incoming mail? If not, minors could just order from some company with their warehouse based in a different city. Even if they can't buy it directly in a shop, they could use a mail order catalog. Combine that with pre-paid cards for the catalog that they could buy in a shop, and maybe a p.o box (if their parents don't approve). The only way the government could stop that is if they start going through minors' mail. That seems like it would step on a whole lot more toes than the censorship bill would.

(Edit: Actually, looking at the manga magazines I have, there's already mail order forms for alot of stuff already included. This might be pretty easy.)

All the communications censorship stuff seems pretty bad, but hopefully there will be good workarounds/loopholes.

Oh, and @Running Wild:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orbjuMHZ4k4
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aeris14



Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 30
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:11 am Reply with quote
Dagon123 wrote:
Can they just gg and call it a day? this is what the 3rd time they've tried to pass this? and each time more damning to the proponents then the last?, lol They don't realize how much revenue they would be throwing in the crapper, I'm not too fond of rape (I don't think many people are, lol) but taking down the whole industry because of one or 2 things is ludicrous and they should know better then to try and pass this bill, its almost embarrassing at this point
I hear ya they really need to stop trying to pass this bill as of now.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
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Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:11 pm Reply with quote
configspace wrote:
Mohawk52 wrote:
This is such a storm in a tea cup, it's only about restricting sales to minors. Rolling Eyes

No, it's a big issue because much of the industry relies on things that are also accessible to folks in high school.
So the doujinshi porn industry needs underaged highschoolers to survive? Seriously?
Quote:
This bill has nothing to do with adult material, which is currently restricted anyways.
Lawmakers wrote:
The proposed Bill 156 would require the industry to also self-regulate the sale and renting of "manga, anime, and other images (except for real-life photography)" that "unjustifiably glorify or exaggerate" certain sexual or pseudo sexual acts. The revised bill will specifically target depictions of "sexual or pseudo sexual acts that would be illegal in real life, or sexual or pseudo sexual acts between close relatives whose marriage would be illegal" and therefore be "detrimental toward the healthy development of youth." Another section of the revised bill would allow the government to directly restrict the sale and renting of the above images if the depicted acts are also "considered to be excessively disrupting of social order" such as rape.
No nothing at all. Rolling Eyes
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BassKuroi





PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:26 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
configspace wrote:
Mohawk52 wrote:
This is such a storm in a tea cup, it's only about restricting sales to minors. Rolling Eyes

No, it's a big issue because much of the industry relies on things that are also accessible to folks in high school.

So the doujinshi porn industry needs underaged highschoolers to survive? Seriously?



"Doujinshi porn industry" is an oxymoron. Doujinshi means "self publish material", which means that is a publication made outside the editorial industry.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:13 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
So the doujinshi porn industry needs underaged highschoolers to survive? Seriously?

Rolling Eyes That's a straw man argument since porn is already restricted. Ero doujins have 18+ labels, and merchants who carry them treat it is such. And that is the least of the concerns critics have here.

Mohawk52 wrote:

Quote:
This bill has nothing to do with adult material, which is currently restricted anyways.
Lawmakers wrote:
The proposed Bill 156 would require the industry to also self-regulate the sale and renting of "manga, anime, and other images (except for real-life photography)" that "unjustifiably glorify or exaggerate" certain sexual or pseudo sexual acts. The revised bill will specifically target depictions of "sexual or pseudo sexual acts that would be illegal in real life, or sexual or pseudo sexual acts between close relatives whose marriage would be illegal" and therefore be "detrimental toward the healthy development of youth." Another section of the revised bill would allow the government to directly restrict the sale and renting of the above images if the depicted acts are also "considered to be excessively disrupting of social order" such as rape.
No nothing at all. Rolling Eyes

That's exactly right, none of that is purely adult material. And if the criteria is "anything that is illegal in real life" why not restrict any and all acts of violence, which is not addressed at all in a bill designed for shaping morality? After all, even punching someone in the face is illegal and disrupts social order in real life.

In addition, under the same flawed rationale of "detrimental toward the healthy development of youth" you forget to mention that the bill broadens the prohibitions of sexually stimulating scenes for titillation purposes, e.g. fanservice

Even though this is not Japan, I think the reasoning used in this ruling, striking down an extremely similar law in Oregon could very sensibly apply here (details). Heck it can even apply in the case of doujinshi like you alluded to earlier, if they are not entirely pornographic but did contain scenes which are on their own might be considered so, as the courts said of Berserk containing "fantastical sex scene between Charlotte and Lord Griffin" with its arguably (or any other works') "sexually explicit portions solely intend to titillate" when discussing the problematic nature of that law
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
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Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:15 pm Reply with quote
configspace wrote:
That's exactly right, none of that is purely adult material. And if the criteria is "anything that is illegal in real life" why not restrict any and all acts of violence, which is not addressed at all in a bill designed for shaping morality? After all, even punching someone in the face is illegal and disrupts social order in real life.

In addition, under the same flawed rationale of "detrimental toward the healthy development of youth" you forget to mention that the bill broadens the prohibitions of sexually stimulating scenes for titillation purposes, e.g. fanservice

Even though this is not Japan, I think the reasoning used in this ruling, striking down an extremely similar law in Oregon could very sensibly apply here (details). Heck it can even apply in the case of doujinshi like you alluded to earlier, if they are not entirely pornographic but did contain scenes which are on their own might be considered so, as the courts said of Berserk containing "fantastical sex scene between Charlotte and Lord Griffin" with its arguably (or any other works') "sexually explicit portions solely intend to titillate" when discussing the problematic nature of that law
Now who's bailing straw? And where do you live where that sort of thing is not considered adult material? Do you think that sort of thing would be okay in the US, or here in the UK, for under aged children? It ought to be restricted to at least the under 16's and that is all this bill is about. It isn't banning anything to anyone over the age of 18. You guy's are railing on as if they were passing a bill to go to your house and rip out all your collection to burn in the street. Rolling Eyes
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Olivine



Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 197
Location: Sol 3
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:04 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
Now who's bailing straw? And where do you live where that sort of thing is not considered adult material? Do you think that sort of thing would be okay in the US, or here in the UK, for under aged children? It ought to be restricted to at least the under 16's and that is all this bill is about. It isn't banning anything to anyone over the age of 18. You guy's are railing on as if they were passing a bill to go to your house and rip out all your collection to burn in the street. Rolling Eyes

I agree. People under 16, having rights? Who would endorse such a silly thing? I mean, everybody knows personhood starts at 16. Why should people under 16 have freedoms? They aren't even people!
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Drunk_Samurai



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 133
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:09 pm Reply with quote
Olivine wrote:
Mohawk52 wrote:
Now who's bailing straw? And where do you live where that sort of thing is not considered adult material? Do you think that sort of thing would be okay in the US, or here in the UK, for under aged children? It ought to be restricted to at least the under 16's and that is all this bill is about. It isn't banning anything to anyone over the age of 18. You guy's are railing on as if they were passing a bill to go to your house and rip out all your collection to burn in the street. Rolling Eyes

I agree. People under 16, having rights? Who would endorse such a silly thing? I mean, everybody knows personhood starts at 16. Why should people under 16 have freedoms? They aren't even people!


Also in such countries such as America that would make it restricted to people under 18. Sort of like that stupid California bill about video games.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8193
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:51 pm Reply with quote
Olivine wrote:
Mohawk52 wrote:
Now who's bailing straw? And where do you live where that sort of thing is not considered adult material? Do you think that sort of thing would be okay in the US, or here in the UK, for under aged children? It ought to be restricted to at least the under 16's and that is all this bill is about. It isn't banning anything to anyone over the age of 18. You guy's are railing on as if they were passing a bill to go to your house and rip out all your collection to burn in the street. Rolling Eyes

I agree. People under 16, having rights? Who would endorse such a silly thing? I mean, everybody knows personhood starts at 16. Why should people under 16 have freedoms? They aren't even taxpayers!
Fixed. Wink
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