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NEWS: Tokyo's Youth Ordinance Bill Approved by Committee

Drunk_Samurai wrote:

otimus wrote: The Xenos wrote: configspace wrote: ThePoliced wrote: Im 100% up for this bill. Sorta. Some of the sick shit u see on anime is just wrong, specially those with little kids in them. How is that stuff amusing for some people is beyond me. But if they even start to mess with mature anime, say NGE, Code Geass, Berserk, Gundam, Black Lagoon, etc. there's seriously smth wrong with those politicians. So basically what you're saying is that we should define thought crimes now. Because if you're using the rationale it's "just wrong" (as lots of people tend to do) to support legislation then it must mean cases like Handley's, Castillo's or Diana's must be right. Somehow everyone value their freedoms, but wants to deny others'. I didn't even bother with that one. Anyone that defends something as being "just wrong" raises a red flag for me. You can't argue just for the rights of speech you like. Someone's always going to be offended by it. Especially when Berserk was mentioned and that would be a prime target of this bill and mentality. Hell, Berserk has a child rape scene in it. I don't get this mentality. It reminds me of Sarah Palin always talking about free speech, while the next second she turns around and blasts Rahm Emmanuel for using the term "retards" just because she's personally offended as the mother of a child with a mental handicap. Freedom of speech doesn't work that way. You can't cherry pick the things only your little group or you personally like. Also reminds me of the hypocrisy of her socially conservative tea party that wants government out of people's lives, but also wants government to not allow gays equal rights such as marriage. You can't have it both ways. Though really that's a related yet side issue here. The main issue focuses on the formation of a third party body that would regulate content in an industry that is already starting to struggle. We've all seen how such a body almost destroyed comics in America in the 50s with the Comics Code Authority. I fear creating a similar government mandated censoring third party would be a critical blow to manga as well. All I know is, is that I'm just sick and tired of the pandering to pedophiles and perverts that has pervaded anime, games and manga to an extreme degree in the last decade plus. It makes it harder and harder to rationale a fandom I have when it's like, and it's harder and harder to enjoy things. Japan has a child fetish, and it's not healthy. (Plus, all the other perversions aside from the child fetish.) Now, really, I don't know what can really be done about it. This law is far too vague, and I don't really know what could ever really be done about it aside from societal changes, and that's not going to happen overnight. But I just wish something would be done so it'd be easier to find enjoyable things again that I don't have to feel embarrassed to dig through to find. Wow I missed your post before. You are 100% ignorant. Lolicon has nothing to do with pedophilia because lolicon is not child porn.

Sexualizing children is close enough that I don't like it Especially when it's so common now, and it's fairly disturbing. I'm tired of seeing "sexy children" in every other bit of manga/animated/videogame Japanese entertainment I encounter.

I repeat: Someone has a child fetish, and it's pretty creepy!

Also, I never said it was child porn. I said psuedo child porn, pandering toward people who seem to reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeealllly enjoy sexualized children.

otimus wrote:

Drunk_Samurai wrote: otimus wrote: The Xenos wrote: configspace wrote: ThePoliced wrote: Im 100% up for this bill. Sorta. Some of the sick shit u see on anime is just wrong, specially those with little kids in them. How is that stuff amusing for some people is beyond me. But if they even start to mess with mature anime, say NGE, Code Geass, Berserk, Gundam, Black Lagoon, etc. there's seriously smth wrong with those politicians. So basically what you're saying is that we should define thought crimes now. Because if you're using the rationale it's "just wrong" (as lots of people tend to do) to support legislation then it must mean cases like Handley's, Castillo's or Diana's must be right. Somehow everyone value their freedoms, but wants to deny others'. I didn't even bother with that one. Anyone that defends something as being "just wrong" raises a red flag for me. You can't argue just for the rights of speech you like. Someone's always going to be offended by it. Especially when Berserk was mentioned and that would be a prime target of this bill and mentality. Hell, Berserk has a child rape scene in it. I don't get this mentality. It reminds me of Sarah Palin always talking about free speech, while the next second she turns around and blasts Rahm Emmanuel for using the term "retards" just because she's personally offended as the mother of a child with a mental handicap. Freedom of speech doesn't work that way. You can't cherry pick the things only your little group or you personally like. Also reminds me of the hypocrisy of her socially conservative tea party that wants government out of people's lives, but also wants government to not allow gays equal rights such as marriage. You can't have it both ways. Though really that's a related yet side issue here. The main issue focuses on the formation of a third party body that would regulate content in an industry that is already starting to struggle. We've all seen how such a body almost destroyed comics in America in the 50s with the Comics Code Authority. I fear creating a similar government mandated censoring third party would be a critical blow to manga as well. All I know is, is that I'm just sick and tired of the pandering to pedophiles and perverts that has pervaded anime, games and manga to an extreme degree in the last decade plus. It makes it harder and harder to rationale a fandom I have when it's like, and it's harder and harder to enjoy things. Japan has a child fetish, and it's not healthy. (Plus, all the other perversions aside from the child fetish.) Now, really, I don't know what can really be done about it. This law is far too vague, and I don't really know what could ever really be done about it aside from societal changes, and that's not going to happen overnight. But I just wish something would be done so it'd be easier to find enjoyable things again that I don't have to feel embarrassed to dig through to find. Wow I missed your post before. You are 100% ignorant. Lolicon has nothing to do with pedophilia because lolicon is not child porn. Sexualizing children is close enough that I don't like it Especially when it's so common now, and it's fairly disturbing. I'm tired of seeing "sexy children" in every other bit of manga/animated/videogame Japanese entertainment I encounter. I repeat: Someone has a child fetish, and it's pretty creepy! Also, I never said it was child porn. I said psuedo child porn, pandering toward people who seem to reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeealllly enjoy sexualized children.

There is a bizarre notion in the U.S. (and many other nations including, apparently, Japan) that children are “pure and innocent” non-sexual beings who should not be corrupted by contact with anything sexual*.
When I worked as a social worker in children’s protective services, I investigated hundreds of sexual abuse cases. Many of these children experienced emotional and behavioral problems, however, I cannot recall any child having problems related to too early “sexualization.” The problems related to feeling powerless, “dirty,” unworthy and abandoned.
I found that this notion of “pure and innocent” asexual children actually exacerbated the pain felt by the sexually exploited children on my caseload. Many professionals in the social services and justice systems believed (and still believe) that, because these children had been “sexualized,” they were “ruined for life.”
Anything the child did (after being taken from the family home and placed with strangers in a shelter home) was re-cast as a pathological manifestation of “sexualizatiion.” A lonely, frightened child who tried to sit in a judge’s / lawyer’s / detective’s / social worker’s lap would be misperceived as demonstrating “seductive” behavior.
All humans, including pre-pubescent children, are sexual beings. Encouraging the idea that children need to be protected from anything sexual is (1) unrealistic because children are already sexual and (2) harmful because a child who has been sexually exploited loses his or her “pure and innocent” status to be re-classified as a hypersexualized deviant.
The so-called Youth Healthy Development Ordinance does nothing that I can see to encourage healthy development. Rather, it implicitly promotes the dangerous norm that children must be “pure and innocent” non-sexual entities and, when they are not, they are seductive deviants who are ruined for life.
And, in case anyone thinks that I am rushing to the defense of pedophilic behavior, as protective services social worker, I uncovered and developed the evidence that sent about twenty child molesters to prison and I don’t know how many more to jail.
I personally do not give a rat’s ass whether some anime or manga glorifies or exaggerates certain sexual or pseudo sexual acts† or that someone purchases said anime or manga to get sexually aroused or that someone else does not want to see “sexy children” in anime or manga.
The existence of anime or manga that depict out of norm sexual behaviors, of people who become sexually aroused by viewing such depictions and of people who dislike such depictions does not justify laws or ordinances like the Youth Healthy Development Ordinance. The Youth Healthy Development Ordinance is simply an inexpensive way for a group of political frauds to appear to do something to “protect” children.

* As everyone knows, sex is dirty, degrading and disgusting, so you should save it for the one you love.
† Can anyone tell me what a “pseudo sexual act” is.

I guess this means Berserk is now adult only since it has rape scenes.

Congratulations for turning out so well (so far) and not having any urge to fulfill any sick fantasies (lets wait and see shall we, given that you are still only 15?) but that whole issue aside - most of us here have been teenagers once and we understand where you are coming from. Totally. I still burn when I think of the mags my mum found in my drawer when I was 16, over 20 years ago now.

However, (I assume) you are a long way yet from becoming a responsible parent, and therefore I don't think you can possibly have any concept of the over-riding drive to protect your children that many parents on here feel(and by children I mean 6 year olds, not 16 year olds) from this stuff that is so readily available in Japan - at childs-eye-level in many cases - in convenience stores. Or visible from the guy sitting next to your 6 year old daughter on the train who seems to think that because it is readily available and little restricted it is OK to let her view it (she was drawn to it as it was a comic book and really upset by what she saw). I am assuming here that you have never actually been to Japan or lived here, so you really don't have any concept of the issue over here.

Nobody "hates" anyone, and most reasonable people don't want to see it banned as such in this thread (as I think I mentioned previously the long-term effects if any are a separate issue). We just want our children protected from it. Unfortunately for you the definition of "child" is an arbitrary one and a 15 year old such as yourself may be far more mature than a 25 year old in some cases. However, a line has to be drawn and unfortunately for you, you are currently 3 years the wrong side of it.

I hear what you are saying, and I understand how you feel. When you become a parent one day you will understand how many parents on here feel about the issue too.

On a separate note, I would actually like to see how the government is actually going to enforce this ban, given that most combini's are staffed by people barely old enough to look at these magazines themselves if the law is passed. I just don't see a 19 year old yelling at a bunch of 15 year olds to get away from the underage section!

I don't want to see these magazines banned, or the content restricted for over 18's - but I WOULD like it to be less obvious wherever we go with the children, and to know that my kids won't be able to (easily) get their hands on it.

Fictional child lust, then! There's some real business in the fictional child lust! What else is there to say? It's just creepy how common it is. SOMETHING is wrong with that, in my opinion.

That's all well and good, it's just creepy when something makes sex objects for adults for entertainment out of characters that are children. That's creepy and wrong on a certain level to me. Surely any other rational human being would see why I would think that, and why a lot of people would think that.

There is a bizarre notion in the U.S. (and many other nations including, apparently, Japan) that children are “pure and innocent” non-sexual beings who should not be corrupted by contact with anything sexual*.

Many professionals in the social services and justice systems believed (and still believe) that, because these children had been “sexualized,” they were “ruined for life.”

Anything the child did (after being taken from the family home and placed with strangers in a shelter home) was re-cast as a pathological manifestation of “sexualizatiion.” A lonely, frightened child who tried to sit in a judge’s / lawyer’s / detective’s / social worker’s lap would be misperceived as demonstrating “seductive” behavior.

All humans, including pre-pubescent children, are sexual beings. Encouraging the idea that children need to be protected from anything sexual

And, in case anyone thinks that I am rushing to the defense of pedophilic behavior, as protective services social worker, I uncovered and developed the evidence that sent about twenty child molesters to prison and I don’t know how many more to jail.

† Can anyone tell me what a “pseudo sexual act” is.

giao_su wrote:

There is a bizarre notion in the U.S. (and many other nations including, apparently, Japan) that children are “pure and innocent” non-sexual beings who should not be corrupted by contact with anything sexual*.

This view is not really that bizarre, and comes from how children (very young children) are not physiologically ready for the full range of sexual activity.

Yes, even young children are "sexual beings" in the most broad sense of the term. As a very young child in primary school, I had a crush on a girl, and I wanted to hug and kiss her, and spend time with her, and call her my girlfriend. That was the extent of it, though.

I certainly don't think there's anything wrong with young children coming into contact with romances. In fact, it's probably good to show them some romance stories to aid in their gradual maturation process.

But no, they should not be watching what we adults call "sex" (which goes beyond simple hugs and kisses and caresses of course), because young children very much tend to want to replicate any new activity that they see. And kids below a certain age are simply not physiologically ready for sex.

However, I am sympathetic to some of your other arguments here, and I largely agree with them.

just one persons view...would ask for comments, discussion...and translation and reposting on other forums. If the tokyo/japanese government bows to such a weak governing body as the UN, perhaps they'll listen to the millions of fans all over the world.

And that's just the thing. I can't take it any more. I can't watch any more of this stuff. I thought I would just try watching Casshern Sins, but withing the first 5 mins I had a 6 year old's rear end shoved in my face, center frame. I can't stand it any longer. Not after 10+ years of anime. I'm starting to feel like degenerate just because I watch ANY anime, and I don't want that.

I understand Japan has it's own culture. And its own perspective on things. But this isn't bowing instead of shaking hands. Or leaving shoes at the door. There's cultural diversity, and then there is moral wrong. And I'm not talking religiously here. There is just immoral, religious or not. There are parents that don't want their kids to see such things, and then there are just individual people that don't want it.

I can't make the excuse anymore, and I never should have. If I could have watched all the anime I've seen without “almost” sex scenes, the “almost” naked scenes, “the accidental” grope shots, and the “just around the boundry of pedo”, if I could have watched all the anime I've seen without this, I would have missed nothing. But with it, I'm starting to feel like an accomplice. And I hate that. All those good stories, and that good story telling, and all I have to give in return is “boys will be boys” excuses. I don't like it. And it shouldnt be asked of anyone. Especially not because there is “demand” for such a thing.

dengakuSco wrote:

And that's just the thing. *rant omitted*

That's basically what I was saying! It's getting harder and harder to avoid that stuff. It's practically destroyed all light hearted anime for me. It's fairly creepy that the market for it is as huge as it is. Anyways, I agree with this, 100%.

There are two flaws with your interpretation. The first is that you are relying on the text written by ANN, not text quoted and translated from the actual law. The second is that Bill 156 is an amendment to the already existing "harmful publications" statute, and may well include material covered by the current rules as well as the new restrictions.

And that's just the thing. I can't take it any more. I can't watch any more of this stuff. I thought I would just try watching Casshern Sins, but withing the first 5 mins I had a 6 year old's rear end shoved in my face, center frame. I can't stand it any longer. Not after 10+ years of anime. (...)