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NEWS: Full Tokyo Assembly Passes Youth Ordinance Bill


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Ghidra999



Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 39
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:44 pm Reply with quote
GrilledEelHamatsu wrote:
msgundam2 wrote:
Just so you guys know gay and lesbian relationships in a manga, anime, and games will be sticky adult only since gay and lesbian marriage is illegal.
http://dankanemitsu.wordpress.com/2010/11/24/of-illegal-fictional-marriage-and-harmful-fictional-sex/
That homophobic.
Doesn't Japan have any gay right groups opposing this? this is just stupid.


Japan's gay and lesbian community is litterally non existant. I recall a Tokyo gay pride back in 2006 having only 3 dozen people marching.

Japan basically has a "Don't Ask,Don't tell" view on homosexuality. They rather not want someone to diclose thier sexual orientation and prefer you keep it to yourself. Most gays there stay in the closet and in Japanese culture there's no way of telling who's not hetrosexual.

You didn't know that?


I'm sure not everyone in the GBLT community over there agrees with your sentiment. Of course, that could certainly be the case, but it's evidence of opression. The United States was the exact same way untill extremely recently, and it still may be the case for good protion of gay people living in this country. It doesn't mean the people their selves are happy about it. It just means an intolerant bully like Ishihara can openly get away with doing bigoted things without any kind of backlash from the rest of the robots who enforce their ridiculous societal norms on innocent people.
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tuxedocat



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 2183
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:51 pm Reply with quote
Ghidra999 wrote:
GrilledEelHamatsu wrote:
msgundam2 wrote:
Just so you guys know gay and lesbian relationships in a manga, anime, and games will be sticky adult only since gay and lesbian marriage is illegal.
http://dankanemitsu.wordpress.com/2010/11/24/of-illegal-fictional-marriage-and-harmful-fictional-sex/
That homophobic.
Doesn't Japan have any gay right groups opposing this? this is just stupid.


Japan's gay and lesbian community is litterally non existant. I recall a Tokyo gay pride back in 2006 having only 3 dozen people marching.

Japan basically has a "Don't Ask,Don't tell" view on homosexuality. They rather not want someone to diclose thier sexual orientation and prefer you keep it to yourself. Most gays there stay in the closet and in Japanese culture there's no way of telling who's not hetrosexual.

You didn't know that?


I'm sure not everyone in the GBLT community over there agrees with your sentiment. Of course, that could certainly be the case, but it's evidence of opression. The United States was the exact same way untill extremely recently, and it still may be the case for good protion of gay people living in this country. It doesn't mean the people their selves are happy about it. It just means an intolerant bully like Ishihara can openly get away with doing bigoted things without any kind of backlash from the rest of the robots who enforce their ridiculous societal norms on innocent people.


Actually, it is still happening over here. Just look at Don't ask, Don't Tell. Even the military is for repealing it. Yet there are a whole bunch of Legislators doing their best to keep this law in place. So Japan isn't the only country to have bigots in power.
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Ghidra999



Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 39
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:00 pm Reply with quote
tuxedocat wrote:
Ghidra999 wrote:
GrilledEelHamatsu wrote:
msgundam2 wrote:
Just so you guys know gay and lesbian relationships in a manga, anime, and games will be sticky adult only since gay and lesbian marriage is illegal.
http://dankanemitsu.wordpress.com/2010/11/24/of-illegal-fictional-marriage-and-harmful-fictional-sex/
That homophobic.
Doesn't Japan have any gay right groups opposing this? this is just stupid.


Japan's gay and lesbian community is litterally non existant. I recall a Tokyo gay pride back in 2006 having only 3 dozen people marching.

Japan basically has a "Don't Ask,Don't tell" view on homosexuality. They rather not want someone to diclose thier sexual orientation and prefer you keep it to yourself. Most gays there stay in the closet and in Japanese culture there's no way of telling who's not hetrosexual.

You didn't know that?


I'm sure not everyone in the GBLT community over there agrees with your sentiment. Of course, that could certainly be the case, but it's evidence of opression. The United States was the exact same way untill extremely recently, and it still may be the case for good protion of gay people living in this country. It doesn't mean the people their selves are happy about it. It just means an intolerant bully like Ishihara can openly get away with doing bigoted things without any kind of backlash from the rest of the robots who enforce their ridiculous societal norms on innocent people.


Actually, it is still happening over here. Just look at Don't ask, Don't Tell. Even the military is for repealing it. Yet there are a whole bunch of Legislators doing their best to keep this law in place. So Japan isn't the only country to have bigots in power.


I'm not saying it isn't. I'm talking about scale. In the 50's, coming out of the closet was basically career/social life suicide. Hell, you may have bene been arrested for sodomy. Today, at least in certain areas, especially ones that are not rural, that is much less the case. Obviously, I still think the gay civil rights movement in this country has a long way to go. And that's what it is about, civil rights.

Japan is very backwards and it is indeeed wrong. Anyone who isn't a straight Japanese male is basically a second class citizen in that country. What some people don't get is that the otaku culture is a counter-culture. It's very much not the main culture.
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HyugaHinata
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Joined: 25 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:03 pm Reply with quote
Mushi-Man wrote:
HyugaHinata:

Quote:
If you don't like a particular show, don't watch it.

If parents don't want their kids to see a particular show, they bear the responsibility to prevent them.

It really is that simple.


I agree with this part, it's the parent's job to limit what their kids can or can't see, not the state's. Censorship is a result of morally stubborn parents who a are just to lazy to actually take responsibility for their kinds. They would rather force their morals and beliefs on everyone else, then actually try to teach it to their kids.

However
Quote:
Pastor Martin Niemöller's words are markedly poignant and prophetic here:...


This I can not agree with. You just compared the Tokyo Assembly passing a bill about regulation of sexual material to the holocaust. Now I'm against censorship just as much as the next guy, but I think this is a bit radical. This is like some Glenn Beck level propaganda here, maybe take it down a notch or two before people start to actually think we're crazy.


Paranoid draconian standards for sexual content never lead to anything good.

Children in the US have been listed as "sex offenders" for publicising naked pictures of themselves. Shouldn't parents also be throw in the cooler for doing similar things?

http://www.24-7pressrelease.com/press-release/sexting-may-lead-to-criminal-consequences-184967.php

Quote:
A 14-year old girl was charged with possession and distribution of child pornography in New Jersey after posting sexually explicit photos on MySpace.

Anyone who sends or receives sexually explicit photos or messages from an underage teen, has reason to be concerned. A child pornography charge can lead to a lifetime on the sex offender registry, in addition to jail time, fines and serious reputation damage.

Sexting is a dangerous gamble. With the advancements of modern technology, it is not known how far beyond the intended recipient a text message will go. Tony Parker, Tiger Woods and Brett Favre are only celebrity examples of the reputation damage sexting can cause. In all circumstances, it is urged that sexting be avoided because of the large criminal consequences that may be triggered after one single explicit text message.


Australia is the beacon of moral "purity" and "community standards" in the West, and it's no better -

http://www.theage.com.au/national/sexting-teens-breach-child-porn-law-20101209-18req.html

Quote:
CHILDREN sending and receiving sexually explicit images on mobile phones - or ''sexting'' - are unwittingly falling foul of child pornography laws, a parliamentary hearing on child cyber-safety has heard.

Education researcher Paul Weldon told the hearing that ''laws designed to protect children from adults [were] now being used against children''.

Dr Weldon cited the case of a 14-year-old boy in Bunbury, Western Australia, who pleaded guilty last week to child pornography charges, after footage of a 14-year-old girl having sex with two other boys was downloaded onto his mobile phone. It is understood that the footage had been widely circulated among other schoolchildren.


Children having sex with other children is not paedophilia or child abuse.
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GWOtaku



Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 655
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:53 pm Reply with quote
Peama wrote:
I'm really surprised looking at people's reaction's here. It's like you are initially against it, but then when you see people panic on a forum, you turn your opinion into the opposite of theirs just so you can pretend to be the smarter calmer maturer one.. I hate forums.


I really don't think that's happening. It's just important that people understand the problem, and yet quite a few angry fans are saying things that anyone who's read Dan Kanemitsu's blog for ten minutes wouldn't. And in my opinion, it shouldn't be necessary to cling to the idea of somebody's favorite anime being put behind the counter in order to get angry. The principle of the thing and concerns about stifling creativity at a time where the industry needs plenty more of it ought to be enough at the least.

It doesn't have to be the apocalypse for it to be a bad thing.


Last edited by GWOtaku on Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Faiya210



Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:59 pm Reply with quote
GWOtaku wrote:
Peama wrote:
I'm really surprised looking at people's reaction's here. It's like you are initially against it, but then when you see people panic on a forum, you turn your opinion into the opposite of theirs just so you can pretend to be the smarter calmer maturer one.. I hate forums.


I really don't think that's happening. It's just important that people understand the problem, and yet quite a few angry fans are saying things that anyone who's read Dan Kanemitsu's blog for ten minutes wouldn't.

It doesn't have to be the apocalypse for it to be a bad thing.


I keep asking this question: Why should we trust Dan Kanemitsu? His blog makes me feel better, but why is he considered a credible source? It's the debater in me, so forgive me, but I would just like an answer.
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GWOtaku



Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 655
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:10 pm Reply with quote
Faiya210 wrote:


I keep asking this question: Why should we trust Dan Kanemitsu? His blog makes me feel better, but why is he considered a credible source? It's the debater in me, so forgive me, but I would just like an answer.


He's a professional translator and interpreter, he's looked at the bill and knows what's in it. He opposes the bill but within reason; takes the time to analyze what it is and isn't. This doesn't makes all his opinions about the subject unassailable of course. People can have different opinions about the same facts. But he's definitely worth taking seriously.


Last edited by GWOtaku on Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:13 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Faiya210



Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:13 pm Reply with quote
GWOtaku wrote:
Faiya210 wrote:


I keep asking this question: Why should we trust Dan Kanemitsu? His blog makes me feel better, but why is he considered a credible source? It's the debater in me, so forgive me, but I would just like an answer.


He's a professional translator and interpreter, he's looked bill and knows what's in it. He opposes the bill but within reason as near as I can tell. This doesn't have his opinions unassailable of course, but he's definitely worth taking seriously.


All right. I do want to take him seriously, but I also take the validity of my sources seriously. I can rest easier now. About what's in the bill, anyway. Still upset about its existence.
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Kruszer



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 7928
Location: Minnesota, USA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:25 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Full Tokyo Assembly Passes Youth Ordinance Bill


Yeah, I believe this sums the situation up nicely. Seriously, though what a bulls*** law though. As much as I'm sad to see some of the more fanservice oriented stuff get tossed out, I also wonder if this will mean a lean towards more sophisticated works, which I think would be good.
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Mushi-Man



Joined: 17 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:39 pm Reply with quote
HyugaHinata wrote:
Children having sex with other children is not paedophilia or child abuse.


Yes, yes I agree with all of that. But what I'm saying is that this is in no way, shape, or form actually comparable to the holocaust where millions of people were murdered based on their ethnic heritage, religious affiliations, and sexual orientations. Don't you think that trying to draw a parallel between this stupid law and one of the worst events in human history is a bit of a stretch (and an inappropriate on at that)?
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Faiya210



Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:26 pm Reply with quote
Dan Kanemitsu has suggested writing the TMA, to at least let them know that people beyond Japan are worried about the possible ramifications and remind them of the market for anime/manga. I'm wondering if such an action should be mounted. I'm a little afraid of such an action being hijacked by hysterical fans screaming for their lolirape, but it might remind them that they are messing with a popular and profitable export.
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hatersg2haet



Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:44 pm Reply with quote
Darth Joker wrote:
Drunk_Samurai wrote:
Joichiro Nishi wrote:
bravetailor wrote:
hikaru004 wrote:
[
And that's what got them in trouble with the PTA a while ago. They had a lot of explicit stuff in mags that the younger aged females had access too. So shojo just needs to clean up their act.


But this is what a lot of shojo readers are interested in. If shojo manga were only able to discuss cute, chaste relationships where the biggest conflicts were about a guy bringing a girl home before curfew, then the allure of shojo would diminish.


Don't be so naive, sexually explicite shoujos are hentai for teen girls. It's not about the plot, it's about hot rapists with generic emo past. I'm OK with melodrama in shoujo and I know parents shpuld educate their children instead of TV or mangas but there are some really disgusting stuff in shoujo manga that should be banned. For more information, read anything from Mayu Shinjo.


NOTHING like this should be banned. Censorship is wrong no matter what the reason. Also to call it hentai shows your damn ignorance.


So is censorship of real child pornography wrong?

I ask since you're making an absolutist statement about censorship.


Why yes it is. You clearly don't understand child porn laws or supreme court rulings on the issue.

Child Porn is not considered censored at any point. The reason it's illegal is not due to censorship but due to the criminal activities involved in the creation of it. Essentially the Supreme Court said that if its impossible to create something without a illegal activity having taken place then that thing itself is essentially illegal.
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Ghidra999



Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 39
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:59 pm Reply with quote
hatersg2haet wrote:
Darth Joker wrote:
Drunk_Samurai wrote:
Joichiro Nishi wrote:
bravetailor wrote:
hikaru004 wrote:
[
And that's what got them in trouble with the PTA a while ago. They had a lot of explicit stuff in mags that the younger aged females had access too. So shojo just needs to clean up their act.


But this is what a lot of shojo readers are interested in. If shojo manga were only able to discuss cute, chaste relationships where the biggest conflicts were about a guy bringing a girl home before curfew, then the allure of shojo would diminish.


Don't be so naive, sexually explicite shoujos are hentai for teen girls. It's not about the plot, it's about hot rapists with generic emo past. I'm OK with melodrama in shoujo and I know parents shpuld educate their children instead of TV or mangas but there are some really disgusting stuff in shoujo manga that should be banned. For more information, read anything from Mayu Shinjo.


NOTHING like this should be banned. Censorship is wrong no matter what the reason. Also to call it hentai shows your damn ignorance.


So is censorship of real child pornography wrong?

I ask since you're making an absolutist statement about censorship.


Why yes it is. You clearly don't understand child porn laws or supreme court rulings on the issue.

Child Porn is not considered censored at any point. The reason it's illegal is not due to censorship but due to the criminal activities involved in the creation of it. Essentially the Supreme Court said that if its impossible to create something without a illegal activity having taken place then that thing itself is essentially illegal.


They deemd dog fighting videos legal recently, so that argument is bunk now completely. I think an exception is just made for child sexual abuse. I don't blame them. Just as long as its actual children being harmed, it should be illegal. Drawings are not chilrdren and are one of the purest expressions of speech there is.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14093
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:52 am Reply with quote
Just to clear some things up:


defunctzombie wrote:
Ishihara is such a hypocrite. He's published stuff that if adapted into manga or anime form would immediately get shoved behind the counter because of this bill.


It's not hypocrisy as long as Ishihara doesn't mind if his stuff gets shoved behind the counter because of this bill. It's hypocrisy if he does mind.


Weiss_Yohji wrote:
Who the hell are they to dictate what people can and can't read?


The same type of people who dictate which movies or games minors can and cannot buy.


DarkFusion wrote:
It's hard to say what the passing of this bill will mean later on, but I think a quote from Bill HIcks best summarizes my opinion on this bill even being considered:

Quote:
Here is my final point. About drugs, about alcohol, about pornography and smoking and everything else. What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I f--k, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?


It matters if you're a minor. A minor cannot buy alcohol, pornography, or cigarettes - even if he/she only harms him/herself.

This bill does not restrict what adults can or cannot get. It's called Youth Ordinace Bill, ferchrissakes. If you're a non-youth, then this bill does not apply to you.

How it affects what gets produced for youths, however, is another matter.
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animefan1238



Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 258
Location: Ma
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:00 am Reply with quote
Mushi-Man wrote:
HyugaHinata wrote:
Children having sex with other children is not paedophilia or child abuse.


Yes, yes I agree with all of that. But what I'm saying is that this is in no way, shape, or form actually comparable to the holocaust where millions of people were murdered based on their ethnic heritage, religious affiliations, and sexual orientations. Don't you think that trying to draw a parallel between this stupid law and one of the worst events in human history is a bit of a stretch (and an inappropriate on at that)?


Child on child sex is something that I think stems from the media they are watching, what they do on the computer, games they play, talk they have with their peers and what happens in their own home(if they are exposed to such behavior or are abused). Which in my logical thinking mind equals not child abuse or pedophilia. Its something that stems from the above sources. Counsuling, removal from the family(if abused or exposed), and teaching of why they did what they did. So if children are watching something that has sexual content then the parents are responsable for their kids' behavior for letting them watch something that is clearly rated PG-13 or R.

And remember Nazi's bad. So comparing them to this bill and the Japanese government is like comparing cricket to rugby. Two completely different sports with nothing in any way shape or form simular.
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