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NEWS: Full Tokyo Assembly Passes Youth Ordinance Bill


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ConanSan



Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 1818
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:00 am Reply with quote
Kruszer wrote:
Quote:
Full Tokyo Assembly Passes Youth Ordinance Bill


Yeah, I believe this sums the situation up nicely. Seriously, though what a bulls*** law though. As much as I'm sad to see some of the more fanservice oriented stuff get tossed out, I also wonder if this will mean a lean towards more sophisticated works, which I think would be good.
The question then becomes is the law lax enough to allow sophisticated works to address sophisticated issues.
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Cryssoberyl



Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 226
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:14 am Reply with quote
The people whose reaction is "this is just an age restriction, slap an 18+ sticker on and call it a day" do not understand how the distinction works in Japan and how it affects the marketability of a product.

In Japan, there is only "general audience" and "adults only", and "adults only" works are, for most distributors, untouchable. Those 18+ stickers you want might as well be nuclear radiation warnings.

In Japan, "adults only" anime is not shown on TV. On any channel. Ever. No matter how violent or racy it may have seemed to you, no anime ever shown on Japanese television was officially designated as 18+.

In Japan, "adults only" manga are not sold in most book stores (both online and brick-and-mortar). As has been stated, 18+ manga works are almost always produced as magazines and anthologies, almost never as stand-alone tankoubon.

The results from this should be obvious. The marketability, and thus profitability, of "adults only" works are extremely limited. Publishing companies will not risk time, money, and effort on creating works that may be judged as such, and thus have their profit potential destroyed by the inaccessibility that comes with it. They will be forced to restrict themselves to works that they can safely market within the "general audience" sphere.

This is not an age restriction. It is censorship by way of enforceable lack of profitability - either you toe the line, or they make your stuff unsellable.


Last edited by Cryssoberyl on Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:49 am; edited 3 times in total
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Ghidra999



Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 39
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:26 am Reply with quote
animefan1238 wrote:
Mushi-Man wrote:
HyugaHinata wrote:
Children having sex with other children is not paedophilia or child abuse.


Yes, yes I agree with all of that. But what I'm saying is that this is in no way, shape, or form actually comparable to the holocaust where millions of people were murdered based on their ethnic heritage, religious affiliations, and sexual orientations. Don't you think that trying to draw a parallel between this stupid law and one of the worst events in human history is a bit of a stretch (and an inappropriate on at that)?


Child on child sex is something that I think stems from the media they are watching, what they do on the computer, games they play, talk they have with their peers and what happens in their own home(if they are exposed to such behavior or are abused). Which in my logical thinking mind equals not child abuse or pedophilia. Its something that stems from the above sources. Counsuling, removal from the family(if abused or exposed), and teaching of why they did what they did. So if children are watching something that has sexual content then the parents are responsable for their kids' behavior for letting them watch something that is clearly rated PG-13 or R.

And remember Nazi's bad. So comparing them to this bill and the Japanese government is like comparing cricket to rugby. Two completely different sports with nothing in any way shape or form simular.


This is utter balonga. Child on child sex happens because of something called genes that created the human race. Sexual instinct comes well before sexual maturity as any pediatrician who isn't a total religous hack would tell you. And children should not be having sex, and there are good reasons for that. However, to blame this on movies and other things is utterly ridiculous. I've wanted to have sex since I was 4 years old and was only watching Sesemea Street and Mr. Roger's Neightborhood. Stop being so naive and wake up.
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Jedi Master



Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 400
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:15 am Reply with quote
Cryssoberyl wrote:
In Japan, there is only "general audience" and "adults only", and "adults only" works are, for most distributors, untouchable. Those 18+ stickers you want might as well be nuclear radiation warnings.


If the publishers band together and slap those stickers on *everything* regardless of the content, then the distributors, tv stations, and retailers will have to either start carrying 18+ content or have no content.

I may be misunderstanding this, but is the only real punishment for violating this law having your company put on the "humiliation list"? If *every* publisher winds up on the list, does the list retain any meaning?
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ayashe



Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 119
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:03 am Reply with quote
And the Japanese wonder why nobody is having children. They're some of the most prudish, anti-sex people there are, which is probably why there's so much hentai and ecchi - repressed people rebelling. I really don't like the Japanese, in fact, sometimes I hate them. I love anime and manga, and the country is beautiful, but they're freaking idiots a lot of the time, much like the know-it-all Japanophiles on here. The idiots who throw around the term weeaboo are usually the most psycho Japan fans there are. OMG teh JAPAM! teh culture! I noes everythng abut it!! u a weeaboo because u liek anime but noes noting about JAPAN! like I do Sorry, idiots, but shockingly most foreigners who watch anime and read manga know that life in Japan it isn't exactly how it's portrayed in manga (it'd really be chaotic with all those mecha, monsters, alien girls running around), and do know things about the culture and country, and certainly don't worship it. I know you'd like to believe that, because it makes you feel like all smart and superior, but that's not the case. Quit projecting and get over yourselves.

As for you real anime fans, and my repressed comrades in Japan, keep rebelling, don't let this trash win! I'll hop in my Knightmare frame and head over there to help. Who's with me?


Last edited by ayashe on Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:12 am; edited 2 times in total
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Cryssoberyl



Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 226
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:09 am Reply with quote
Quote:
I may be misunderstanding this, but is the only real punishment for violating this law having your company put on the "humiliation list"? If *every* publisher winds up on the list, does the list retain any meaning?


I don't know enough about the legal specifics of "adults only" content regulation to give a meaningful answer, but I think it can be assumed that there are mandates as to where and how it can be distributed that factor into the situation. Distributors may have limited legal recourse to carry 18+ products even if they were prepared to shoulder the stigma of doing so.
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TsukasaHiiragi



Joined: 24 Feb 2010
Posts: 176
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:22 am Reply with quote
The sad fact is their video games industry is also failing and this bill is another nail in the proverbial financial coffin. What does really get me though is the government is starting to show signs of totalitarianism again just like it was before WW2, and that is a scary thought really.

Personally, I think its a good move to restrict extreme sexual content especially child pornography even if its in animated form, however outright what this bill does goes way beyond that and opens the path for future amendments which could effect even non-sexual anime/manga, could this be the possible end of high-school anime?
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GrilledEelHamatsu



Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 703
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:32 am Reply with quote
Cryssoberyl wrote:
The people whose reaction is "this is just an age restriction, slap an 18+ sticker on and call it a day" do not understand how the distinction works in Japan and how it affects the marketability of a product.

In Japan, there is only "general audience" and "adults only", and "adults only" works are, for most distributors, untouchable. Those 18+ stickers you want might as well be nuclear radiation warnings.

In Japan, "adults only" anime is not shown on TV. On any channel. Ever. No matter how violent or racy it may have seemed to you, no anime ever shown on Japanese television was officially designated as 18+.

In Japan, "adults only" manga are not sold in most book stores (both online and brick-and-mortar). As has been stated, 18+ manga works are almost always produced as magazines and anthologies, almost never as stand-alone tankoubon.

The results from this should be obvious. The marketability, and thus profitability, of "adults only" works are extremely limited. Publishing companies will not risk time, money, and effort on creating works that may be judged as such, and thus have their profit potential destroyed by the inaccessibility that comes with it. They will be forced to restrict themselves to works that they can safely market within the "general audience" sphere.

This is not an age restriction. It is censorship by way of enforceable lack of profitability - either you toe the line, or they make your stuff unsellable.


Your assuming that all titles and content means "Adults only" and that anything slapped with a label is for mature people only.

Thats not nessarily true. There's plenty of games and content with labels on them that aren't considered adult. Think about all the SEGA Saturn games that had yellow "18+" stickers on them. The only ones that were restricted were the ones that had red stickers on them.
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cff13



Joined: 22 Jul 2010
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:39 am Reply with quote
As much as I hate government regulation , which is why I'm against the bill , I'm interested to see what happens . In some ways I was for the bill because I thought that it's existence at the very least represented the Anime and Manga industry's unwillingness to accept any critique (or open discussion) on erotica or their inability to express sexual themes in no other way other than misusing erotica . I really wanted this matter to be settled without government interference and thought the open discussions created by the ban among developers was a good sign , but it didn't stop the bill . Maybe the bill will get the ball rolling on criticism on erotica , it won't however extinguish creativity as some would think .
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vashna



Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 1313
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:04 am Reply with quote
One thing I haven't seen anyone mention is the sale of used goods. I'm under the impression that current collections could, of course, never be searched. Therefore, are citizens of the Tokyo Metro allowed unrestricted purchased of used goods?

Also, many people have mentioned doujinshi works. I'm confused as to how this law could even regulate such.
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Banken



Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 1251
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:24 am Reply with quote
Cryssoberyl wrote:

In Japan, "adults only" manga are not sold in most book stores (both online and brick-and-mortar). As has been stated, 18+ manga works are almost always produced as magazines and anthologies, almost never as stand-alone tankoubon.


This statement makes me thing you've never been to Japan.

You can buy adult manga volumes in convenience stores, right next to the regular manga.
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Kyaa the Catlord



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 300
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:35 am Reply with quote
Banken wrote:
Cryssoberyl wrote:

In Japan, "adults only" manga are not sold in most book stores (both online and brick-and-mortar). As has been stated, 18+ manga works are almost always produced as magazines and anthologies, almost never as stand-alone tankoubon.


This statement makes me thing you've never been to Japan.

You can buy adult manga volumes in convenience stores, right next to the regular manga.


Yeah, I was shocked by how incorrect her entire post was....

I'm trying hard to bite my tongue in this thread today. Trying!
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Cryssoberyl



Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 226
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:46 am Reply with quote
From Mr. Kanemitsu's blog:

Quote:
Now by the way, this bill is not a ban! BUT in some respects it’s worse than a ban since the bill will encouraging self-censorship and compel authors to avoid particular subject matters, unclear what kinds of depictions would be subject to designation of “harmful material”. If your book is labeled “harmful”, then that magazine or books will be pushed into spots where many people don’t know to find them. Also, once a book or magazine is deemed harmful by Tokyo, as a rule Amazon Japan and many other retailers won’t sell them. There are many instances where retailers will overreact–When a few Boys Love book was designated harmful by Osaka, the local Kinokuniya bookstore removed ALL Boys Love books. Note that very few books that are deemed to be harmful get reprinted as an adult only title, so they usually go out of print very quickly.

In other words, having the label “harmful material” is a kiss of death if you want to reach a wider audience. Some might argue that authors could simply avoid this issue by not dealing with sex crimes in comic and manga. This same logic resulted in how race issues and the Untouchables issue in Japan has been effectively wiped off of mainstream fiction. The fear of persecution results in creators avoiding an issue, creating a world where people are taught racism and discrimination is bad, but they really don’t know what the issue involves.


Perhaps I should've clarified that what I described as "adults only" for simplicity is the legal classification of "harmful material". I had thought this would be evident, but that was my error, and I apologize for it and any other misconceptions.
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taster of pork



Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 532
Location: Oregon
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:23 am Reply with quote
Found a good news video on this Bill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_UP5HzhMJs&feature=sub
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KLAC
Exempt from Grammar Rules


Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 1101
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:33 am Reply with quote
hmm well IF this goes way to far i'm assume most anime will going a NEXUS-attack http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA-271GIsZU on it.

really IF this means to "screw" the anime world uh-oh yikes anime fans going riot, protest, chaos, mayhem, NEXUS, etc for their animes.
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