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RahXephon (in response to ANN's podcast).


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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23668
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:20 am Reply with quote
There's nothing hacky about it. You think that RahXephon is far better than it is and you think that SAO is far worse than it is and that's what determines your attitude towards so-called plot holes. This is all the more hilarious given your frequent explicit and implicit declaration that you are in the possession of an objective perspective on what constitutes good and bad writing.

I have no doubt that when I rewatch RahXephon I will find plenty more flaws other than the few you are willing to admit to. It's been quite hilarious to watch you and a few other RahXephonites stumble around - fans all - correcting each other on what may or may not have happened. What better evidence could there be that RahXephon frequently descends into confusing morass than that?
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Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:44 am Reply with quote
Nah, it's just that none of us have watched it recently so we can't remember all the details.

Even then, two people can watch the same thing and get different interpretations out of it, especially with a show like RahXephon.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:45 am Reply with quote
Oh, I'm not even talking about differing interpretations. I'm talking about actual confusion about what has happened. So yeah, RahXephon is a confusing show in many places and flat denials to the contrary are just kind of laughable. This is actually making me want to rewatch the show more so that I can be specific, myself.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18137
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:10 am Reply with quote
Vaisaga wrote:
Nah, it's just that none of us have watched it recently so we can't remember all the details.

This is also my answer to dtm42 about why the point he was talking about wasn't brought up by me or others previously. Add to that that I simply don't care enough about RahXephon to bother looking for and cataloguing its inconsistencies.

And I don't see picking on this as being any more petty than some of the stuff that dtm has picked on in other titles that he resolutely tries to tear apart even when the writing is good by the standards of most. (And no, I'm not referring to SAO.) I've never said that dtm said that RahXephon is flawless, either, which is why I only said "flirting with" instead of saying that he's outright hypocritical. Being more foregiving of flaws in series that are favorites or that you regard as being otherwise well-made is only natural, after all.
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Animegomaniac



Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 4070
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:56 am Reply with quote
Arkthelad wrote:

Is there something that I'm missing, because it seems that almost everyone rates this series very highly?


I first watched RahXephon last year and I enjoyed it but I would think of it as "emotional sci fi" with romance and the idea of the romantic as its central core; if you don't buy it, then you'll be a little bored, impatient or otherwise indifferent with the rest of it.

Anyway, I've learned since Godzilla versus Megalon that anything involving Mu {Seatopia!} can't be taken that seriously. It's the Atlantis that sounds like a cow, after all...
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Arkthelad



Joined: 06 Jan 2013
Posts: 108
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:04 pm Reply with quote
I can’t really respond to any of the Mulian stuff because dtm42, Vaisaga & MadShadow42 don’t agree on the details of the plot.

However, I never actually claimed that the plot didn’t make sense (although that may well be the case). My gripe is that the story does not convey a sense of conflict, which should be the basis of any drama.Just to take a counter example, The Original Macross series;

Conflict 1: The Zentradi leadership would like to destroy the Macross and later the human race/The crew of the Macross would like to stop that from happening.
Conflict 2: Some Zentradi would like to join the humans so they take part in their culture/Other Zentradi don't want to.
Conflict 3: Hikaru is attracted to Lynn/Hikaru is attracted to Misa.

What are the comparable conflicts in RahXephon?

MadShadow42 wrote:
Because after spoiler[finding out he was Mulian and entering Tokyo Jupiter, he was having some serious self-doubts, episode 18 in particular does a great job of portraying him as broken. He needed to either reaffirm his old purpose or find a new one (or both).

I don’t understand what question your answering. You claimed that Hiroku’s death showed Ayato that the Mu weren’t all monsters. Why did this need to be shown? He’d already kind of cheered up after running away with her, before he even knew she was a Mulian.

MadShadow42 wrote:
spoiler[ Ayato learned what it's like to be forced to fight without reason. By contrast, he himself was able to find something to fight for.] ]

Who is then promptly killed, making the issue redundant. What purpose does it serve in the story? It’s not character development. He was never selfish to begin with.
MadShadow42 wrote:
Kim was essential to convey how the rest of the world saw the Mu, and this resurfaces in episode 25 (which also justifies the relationship with Souichi).

There were already plenty of more necessary characters to do that. The Base commander also had a tragic back story regarding the Mulian invasion. Even if that was her sole purpose there was no need to have her in the foreground. She could have been a side character.
MadShadow42 wrote:
Sou, meanwhile, gave Ayato a friend near his age, and was a catalyst for him accepting his new role in the outside world.

This role could have been completely filled by Megumi. Again, I don’t really have a problem with him being in the story at all, he just shouldn’t have been pushed into the foreground.
MadShadow42 wrote:
but I'd rather have something extra than something missing.

They’re both plot flaws. These are only 20 minute long episodes, half (give or take) of that time being taken up by action. If you have something extraneous then that means you’re wasting time.
MadShadow42 wrote:
Just about all of your arguments so far have indicated that you don't believe two characters of such an age gap could conceivably make a good couple, and that's called imposing your personal values on the story.

It’s not the age gap on its own. It’s the reasons why they get together. For me the age (and time) gap is primarily a problem with Haruka’s actions. My point in reference to Koi Kaze was that in both that and Rah, the actions of the adults appear to me to be indicative of a slightly disturbed mindset. In Koi Kaze this is accepted. In Rah it’s not. From Ayato’s perspective, I can understand why a 17 year old boy might be attracted to a hot 29 year old woman. What I don’t buy is the way he suddenly falls in love with her.
MadShadow42 wrote:
Your lack of context is laughable, that event was more of a step for Megumi, and Haruka was happy/relieved for her sister's sake (because she wouldn't get hurt any more), not her own.

Haruka said “Thanks sis”. You don’t thank someone for doing something for themselves.
MadShadow42 wrote:
Already went through most of this above, but I'll add an admission that the sci-fi is probably the show's weakest element seeing as it has little if any connection to real-world science. BUT this show was always primarily a metaphor, the technology isn't the focus, merely a catalyst for/symbol of the central character conflicts.

This is a personal bias but I can’t support this “It’s not a science fiction story, it just has a science fiction setting”. To me that’s as bad as doing an science fiction story and throwing in a romantic aspect just to widen the potential audience. There’s nothing wrong with doing a story that’s both science fiction and a romance but both parts should be done sincerely, not as a gimmick.

Screw it. I think I'm actually going to have to rewatch this just so I can have this all fresh.
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MadShadow42



Joined: 01 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:20 pm Reply with quote
On the subject of Haruka, the crux of your argument is still that spoiler[she'd have to be disturbed to have such feelings for Ayato (although unlike Koi Kaze, they're not siblings) with no regard for how well- or ill-suited the characters are to one another. It's not a sudden relationship at all, it happens very gradually.] You still have no argument. And for the record, I have a friend who's going out with a considerably older woman, and they're really sweet together.

A lot of these arguments really do come down to personal interpretations of what is or isn't a "flaw". I think I can defend the "sci-fi setting vs sci-fi story" argument because the sci-fi elements aren't just a gimmick, they're a symbol. RahXephon is not really commentative on, relevant to or consistent with real-world science, but it does have its own internal logic and the setting itself adds to the story's metaphor, so I can't very well knock it for that (though some people might).

While we're diving into narrative theory, the "something missing vs something extra" argument is another one I'll have to give my two cents on. If a story has something missing, that means it fails to bring its concept to full fruition. On the other hand I'm more likely to forgive excess because while it does mean the story's message could have been conveyed more concisely, the core ambition of the story will still have been fulfilled.

I'm fully aware that RahXephon has plenty of little flaws I can pick at, but on a whole I find it to be a well-crafted and "complete" experience. On every rewatch I discover a couple more flaws, but many more things it does remarkably well, it's only natural the latter would leave a stronger impression.
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Arkthelad



Joined: 06 Jan 2013
Posts: 108
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:12 pm Reply with quote
MadShadow42 wrote:
On the subject of Haruka, the crux of your argument is still that spoiler[she'd have to be disturbed to have such feelings for Ayato (although unlike Koi Kaze, they're not siblings) with no regard for how well- or ill-suited the characters are to one another. It's not a sudden relationship at all, it happens very gradually.] You still have no argument. And for the record, I have a friend who's going out with a considerably older woman, and they're really sweet together.

I’m rewatching the series currently but from memory I seem to remember that they didn’t actually spend very much time together between ep3 and when he went back to TJ. I remember that to me it didn’t make sense why he suddenly fell in love with Haruka based on the little time they spent together. I’ll know the truth of this soon.
As regards Haruka, the fact is that for 16 years she stayed in love with the memory of a 13 year old boy that she knew for 6 months when they were in high school. That’s pretty much Hebephilia. The Koi Kaze relationship is actually way more understandable by comparison. Do 13 year olds even date in Japan? I read some statistic that even 20 year olds are 80% single over there.
Notice how the retuned world has him and Haruka as an adult couple of similar age? Why? This wasn’t based on any previous experience.
MadShadow42 wrote:
While we're diving into narrative theory, the "something missing vs something extra" argument is another one I'll have to give my two cents on. If a story has something missing, that means it fails to bring its concept to full fruition. On the other hand I'm more likely to forgive excess because while it does mean the story's message could have been conveyed more concisely, the core ambition of the story will still have been fulfilled.

I probably didn’t express myself correctly before. What I was getting at was that “something missing” and “something extra” aren’t mutually exclusive. As a writer, if you feel the need to inject unnecessary characters or plot points (“something extra”) to a significant degree, then the likelihood is that the parts of the story that are necessary are themselves deficient in some aspect (“something missing"). Think of Naruto. People complained about all the filler as if the central plot/characters were actually good. No. The reason it had a lot of unnecessary stuff is because the necessary stuff was garbage.
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OldCharlieStoletheHandle



Joined: 12 Dec 2009
Posts: 1288
Location: Mastic Beach, NY
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:28 am Reply with quote
I decided to start watching RahXephon after seeing this discussion thread for the show; it's also been sitting in my collection for over 3 years. I'm up to episode 12 and I like it so far. At first, I couldn't see why people insist on comparing this so much to Neon Genesis Evangelion (apart from Standard Anime Dogma which requires that all mecha shows made after 1996 be measured against the Holy Grail which is Eva [/sarcasm]); however, the comparison is starting to make a bit more sense, though I find myself thinking more of Super Atragon (if that show had been longer). There's still some stuff that is not making much sense, but with Chiaki J. Konaka as one of the writers this is only to be expected. I stopped reading this thread after the first few pages as I want to avoid spoilers (like the one in the English voice actor interviews on disc 2). I'm hoping to finish it this weekend; perhaps I can add more to the discussion then.
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Arkthelad



Joined: 06 Jan 2013
Posts: 108
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:25 am Reply with quote
Okay, I finally finished watching it again. I get the feeling that the writers behind it, really believed in it and put a lot of effort in. They just didn’t have the talent necessary to write the kind of show they were aiming for. If they’d aimed for a different kind of story it probably would have been better. The first thing I have to say is that Rah is a very strange series to watch. I don’t think I’ve seen any other anime that has the same feel to it. I can’t pin down what exactly the cause behind this is but I think part of it is that the series feels like it was written by a very large group of people without any redacting. It doesn’t have a natural flow to it. To take a counter example, I don’t know how many writers Madoka Magica had but I’d easily believe that there was just one, because it feels like a unified whole. RahXephon doesn’t.

One of the things I said initially was that there was lack of defined conflict or tension. I really didn’t remember just how dull the Dolem battles were. There are even a couple where the TERRA staff themselves appear bored, especially with the black hole dolem that kills 500 people at the beginning of the episode and some of the characters are like “This is boring, when is this thing gonna show up?”. Zero tension. Add to this the fact that most battles follow the standard structure of 1) Ayato experiences minor difficulty fighting Dolem 2) Reika helps him 3) Ayato defeats Dolem easily. There’s never any real peril or suffering during the Rah vs Dolem battles.

The other forms of conflict are totally contrived. Take for example Ayato’s overhearing that he’s a Mulian (which somehow escaped his consideration despite him knowing that his mother also is). After briefly questioning himself after finding out he’s a Mulian, Ayato decides that he has to keep piloting the RahXephon, because it is “his destiny” which allows him to go and defeat a Dollum. But then Elvy is mean to him so he starts questioning himself again. All in one episode. They just turn it on and off as is convenient. There’s no development.

Another thing which I mentioned was the mass character filler and as with the conflict it’s even worse than I remembered. It’s bad enough that there are many pointless characters but it’s even worse that they’re put in the foreground of the story and given attempted characterisation, eg:

Isshiki
Sayoko
Kim
Futagami
Mamorou
Hiroko
Watari

None of those characters serve any purpose in the story other than to fill up episode time. The best example is Elvy and her squad. It’s pretty clear from episode 1 that their fighter jets are useless against the Dolems, and yet somehow Elvy remains in the series. Even when the Vermillions are introduced at mid point they end up being pretty useless as well. Yet Elvy and co remain in the story so that we can have all of her forgettable crew die tragically. This links to a larger problem with the amount of sentimentality in the series. Characters who have had relatively little screen time are killed off and this is presented as something the audience should care deeply about e.g., Elvy’s Asian squad member, Hiroko, Sayoko.

I’ll stop there, because I don’t want this to turn into an essay and wait for responses.
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MadShadow42



Joined: 01 Oct 2012
Posts: 56
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:30 pm Reply with quote
Wrong, wrong, debatable, missing the point completely, and so terribly wrong (not necessarily in that order). Saying there's nothing there doesn't make it so.

Okay, the first bit about a "unified whole" is vague and unsubstantiated, so there's not much I can do but disagree with you and say that I found the show to be building up in a single direction from start to finish. It may have had different writers with different perspectives, but I do not believe that was to the show's detriment at all... and I guess I have to be just as vague because I don't really have anything to argue against. To put it succinctly, the story was building up to a single conclusion from start to finish just like Madoka Magica, it was just a little slower about it.

As for the fights, it's true that as an action series RahXephon doesn't deliver. So what? Should I fault it for not making all the battles cool? I found them to work because they're raw and messy, just like Ayato. I can't fault it for formula either, Revolutionary Girl Utena used formulaic battles but got by on strong character development (I'll get to that in a moment). I still felt tension in a lot of the battles, like when Ayato was being pulled into the ground in episode 6. He wasn't just freaking out about dying, that was also the first milestone in his resolve. In each episode the fights, or perhaps the conflicts occurring alongside the fights, we learn something about some of the characters, gain a piece of the puzzle. If you're seeking out fights for the sake of fights then look elsewhere. Terra was cold and calculating, yes, but they're the military, it's their job to remain calm and try to come up with an effective strategy rather than panicking over a threat that they can't identify, and it's not as dramatized as, say, Evangelion, but they do all get a chance to bare their souls through these conflicts.

And as for your example of "contrived" character development... really? Do you take everything characters say and do at absolute face value? spoiler[Ayato knew it was possible and likely that he was a Mulian all along, but hearing it presenting as a cold hard fact and promptly having someone he'd come to respect shun him for it would shake anyone. He decided to try piloting the RahXephon again but he wasn't completely healed yet, he was trying to prove that he can still be useful and have a purpose, only for that illusion to be shattered as Elvy takes down the Dolems herself. It's not that hard.]

As for those characters, it would take a long time to explain each individual character's purpose, and I'm getting tired of telling you what you're missing because we are operating on completely different standards and criteria for what makes good storytelling. Still, if you couldn't find a purpose for any of these characters then I have to wonder if you were watching the same show as me. Sometimes a character's "purpose" isn't what they do, but what they convey. Since you brought up Elvy's squad I'll counter your argument with this: they're human, even if fighting is useless they want to try to be useful because it's better than sitting back doing nothing. Donny (the Asian pilot) was a superfluous detail, I'll admit. Hiroko's death, on the other hand, was exceptionally well-handled, even non-fans of the series tend to agree on that (though there are apparently exceptions such as yourself).

This show has its flaws: a few superfluous details, some lackluster fight scenes, maybe some characters it could have used slightly more economically. They're not nearly as bad as you say they are, but they're there. I forgive these flaws for what the show does right in spite of them, while you pay absolutely no mind to anything but the flaws while making up several more of your own. In my eyes, pointing fingers at supposed "flaws" without even acknowledging the intent behind the show and whether it succeeds or fails to that end is terribly hollow criticism.

I'm done with this. It's exhausting and we're operating on such incompatible wavelengths that I'm quite sure we'll never see eye to eye, but rest assured I'm now more assured of the show's strengths than before. I think I'll watch it again in the near future.


Last edited by MadShadow42 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Arkthelad



Joined: 06 Jan 2013
Posts: 108
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:28 pm Reply with quote
MadShadow42 wrote:
As for the fights, it's true that as an action series RahXephon doesn't deliver. So what? Should I fault it for not making all the battles cool instead of cold and practical?

I didn’t say the battles didn’t look cool (the animation was fine), I said they didn’t generate any tension. Totally unrelated things.

MadShadow42 wrote:
If you're seeking out fights for the sake of fights then look elsewhere.


If they’re not creating tension then I’d say that “fights for the sake of fights” is a pretty good description.

MadShadow42 wrote:
Terra was cold and calculating, yes, but they're the military, it's their job to remain calm and try to come up with an effective strategy rather than panicking over a threat that they can't identify


Firstly, almost none of those characters are believable as military personnel especially considering it is meant to be a somewhat secret agency designed to fight aliens. Seriously, how the hell is Megumi working at a secret government agency? She didn’t even finish high school. Secondly, if I made a war movie that had minimal tension and I explained it away with “Well the characters are professionals who trained to remain calm”, I’m going to get laughed at.

Add to this the fact that we know from the outset that Maya wants him back, so the prospect of Ayato experiencing actual harm isn’t even on the table.

MadShadow42 wrote:
spoiler[Ayato knew it was possible and likely that he was a Mulian all along]


Conjecture. That’s never suggested.

MadShadow42 wrote:
Sometimes a character's "purpose" isn't what they do, but what they convey. Since you brought up Elvy's squad I'll counter your argument with this: they're human, even if fighting is useless they want to try to be useful because it's better than sitting back doing nothing.


That’s just circular reasoning. You’re basically saying, “Elvy’s squad have to be in the story because otherwise they wouldn’t be”. Essentially, you’re accepting that they have no purpose.

MadShadow42 wrote:
In my eyes, pointing fingers at supposed "flaws" without even acknowledging what the show is trying to achieve and whether it succeeds or fails to that end is terribly hollow criticism.


I think it was trying to be an epic feeling Mecha drama and it would definitely fit within those genres. That doesn’t have any bearing on the quality though.
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MadShadow42



Joined: 01 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:07 pm Reply with quote
I said I was done, but... I hate having my words twisted. First off, you completely ignore my statement that the fights are for the sake of character development.

Second, you argue that there's no risk of Ayato dying and that takes away the tension, but in just about every action series with a main character we can safely assume that character won't die going entirely by the episode count. Tension is subjective, don't confuse gut reactions from critical flaws.

Third, Terra was never a "secret" agency, I thought you just watched the [expletive] show. Hell, Watari even represented them on worldwide television early on. The entire argument you drew from that detail collapses.

Fourth, it's NOT A WAR DRAMA, it's a character drama against a war backdrop, and even that's not exactly what it is. And even then, as I said the characters in question are generally composed but most of them do get their own arcs explaining how they fit into Terra.

Fifth, writing off my statement about Ayato as "conjecture" just because it's never stated directly undermines the concept of subtle character writing, I came to that conclusion from how he carried himself and interacted with other characters before and after the truth was brought into plain sight, as well as the basic human tendency to not ask questions if we fear answers. The rest of my statement is still valid even if that's not enough for you.

Sixth, your rebuttal to my statement about the characters is a laughable attempt at twisting my words. Their presence is justified by the human desire to fight against an undesirable faith, and the need to feel proactive. As for their roles, I could list several: they helped get Ayato out of TJ; they were veterans to contrast Ayato, the newcomer who's never had to fight in his life; they challenged Ayato's own feeling of usefulness in the scene you erroneously called contrived. Symbolically, if the upper brass of Terra were the calculating mind of humanity and the younger members like Sou, Kim and Megumi were humanity's caring heart, then Elvy and her crew were its aggressive, combative side with a touch of the earthy pragmatism that accompanies experience. That detailed enough for you?

Seventh, saying it's trying to be an "epic" is a paltry and nondescript statement. What I meant was, what themes was it trying to convey? It would be different if this was a "mindless fun" type show like Gurren Lagann, but this show was clearly trying to tell its audience something and ignoring that aspect of the show entirely still does not good criticism make.

I take back what I said about this being exhausting, this is surprisingly fun and remarkably easy Laughing
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Arkthelad



Joined: 06 Jan 2013
Posts: 108
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:44 pm Reply with quote
MadShadow42 wrote:
I said I was done, but... I hate having my words twisted. First off, you completely ignore my statement that the fights are for the sake of character development.


That doesn’t negate anything I said. “Fights for the sake of characterisation” and “Fights to generate tension” aren’t mutually exclusive. There are plenty of other ways to generate characterisation. Fights are sources of tension. If you’re going to do them half heartedly then don’t bother at all.

MadShadow42 wrote:
Second, you argue that there's no risk of Ayato dying and that takes away the tension, but in just about every action series with a main character we can safely assume that character won't die going entirely by the episode count.


I said that Ayato dying in the Dolem fights wasn’t even on the table ie there was no prospect of it happening. Not just that it was unlikely due to narrative convention. Counter example: Luke Skywalker was unlikely to die in ROTJ due to narrative convention but the prospect/threat still existed. It doesn’t exist in RahXephon because Maya states in ep2/3 that she wants him back, and she’s the one sending the Dolems.

MadShadow42 wrote:
Tension is subjective, don't confuse gut reactions from critical flaws.


It’s all subjective to a degree.Did you think the Xephon vs Dolem fights were tense?

MadShadow42 wrote:
Third, Terra was never a "secret" agency, I thought you just watched the [expletive] show. Hell, Watari even represented them on worldwide television early on. The entire argument you drew from that detail collapses.


I meant secret as in secretive as in The Secret Intelligence Service, not secret as in it doesn’t exist on paper.

MadShadow42 wrote:
Fourth, it's NOT A WAR DRAMA, it's a character drama against a war backdrop, and even that's not exactly what it is.


Again, if the fights have no real importance in the show then why bother showing them?

MadShadow42 wrote:
Fifth, writing off my statement about Ayato as "conjecture" just because it's never stated directly undermines the concept of subtle character writing, I came to that conclusion from how he carried himself and interacted with other characters before and after the truth was brought into plain sight, as well as the basic human tendency to not ask questions if we fear answers. The rest of my statement is still valid even if that's not enough for you.


You’re confusing subtle character writing with what you personally believe is happening in the minds of the characters. If you don’t reference things that happen in the series which back up your argument, then it’s just conjecture.

MadShadow42 wrote:
Their presence is justified by the human desire to fight against an undesirable faith, and the need to feel proactive.


Ep 1: Fighter planes are shown to be useless against Dolems + Ep 4 onwards: TERRA have a weapon that can defeat Dolems fairly easily = Unnecessary fighter pilot characters. I think the short span of time in which the pilots are killed off illustrates pretty well that they were seen by the writers as character filler.

MadShadow42 wrote:
they helped get Ayato out of TJ;


I’m pretty sure they didn’t. That’s beside the point though. They could have had the fighter attack at the beginning without making Elvy a recurring character.

MadShadow42 wrote:
they were veterans to contrast Ayato, the newcomer who's never had to fight in his life;


Which achieves what exactly? As mentioned, it’s not like Ayato faces real difficulties fighting that he has to struggle through, because Reika always helps him in the end. I don’t think Ayato even interacts with them at any time in a way that would illustrate the contrast you’re pointing to.

You didn’t mention this but let’s add another one. When Elvy flies Haruka to TJ after Ayato leaves. Total pointless filler. Haruka had already allowed Ayato to leave TERRA, when she could have easily stopped him. Then she decides that she just has to follow him to TJ. Why? So that episode time can be filled with Elvy and Haruka flying to TJ and exploring around, achieving no clear purpose. That barrier piercing scene on its own filled up a good 2 minutes. Apparently the writers thought it was vital that the audience see that in great detail.

MadShadow42 wrote:
Symbolically, if the upper brass of Terra were the calculating mind of humanity and the younger members like Sou, Kim and Megumi were humanity's caring heart, then Elvy and her crew were its aggressive, combative side with a touch of the earthy pragmatism that accompanies experience.


The upper brass of TERRA is just Kunugi and Watari. Kunugi is ex-military and already achieves the function you ascribe to the pilots. Again, unnecessary characters.

MadShadow42 wrote:
Seventh, saying it's trying to be an "epic" is a paltry and nondescript statement.


Epic as in a story that has themes of grandeur and heroism.

MadShadow42 wrote:
What I meant was, what themes was it trying to convey? It would be different if this was a "mindless fun" type show like Gurren Lagann, but this show was clearly trying to tell its audience something and ignoring that aspect of the show entirely still does not good criticism make.


You think RahXephon has more substance than Gurren Lagann? Gurren definitely takes itself less serious than Rah but in my opinion has far more thematic depth. What did you think made Rah more meaningful than GL?
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Arkthelad



Joined: 06 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:12 pm Reply with quote
It recently occured to me that through this thread there was one issue raised in the podcast which never actually came up.

Zac refered to RahXephon as being "high-minded Mecha", and I've seen it described elsewhere as intellectual and dealing with big themes.

For fans of the series, I'd like to know what they see as its core themes?
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