Forum - View topicBrain Diving - Youth Brigade: Clearing up the Tokyo Youth Ordinance Bill
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yuricon
 Posts: 145 |
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Brian - Thank you for an exceptional article explaining how we got here and pointing out the potentials for abuse and confusion in this law.
I wanted to add my support to the Big 10 Publishers Association, and their public, vocal, rejection of this Bill. Here's the Good News - Kodansha's Morning International Comic Competition went onto Twitter last week to publicly state - in English and Japanese (and perhaps other languages I do not read) that they categorically don't care about the bill and will carry on with the competition as if it does not exist. They exhort artists to "draw good manga" without concern for the regulations. This, of all possible statements, was the best I could hope for. *** I don't know if it's because America was born by Revolution and every succeeding generation has to protest and fight to gain a measure of respect, but we take it for granted that standing up and saying, "Hell No, we won't....!" is perfectly normal. In Japan, this is not common at all. I'm not sure that, apart from student riots in the 70s, they've ever stood up and screamed. For companies - large, successful conservative companies - to do so, is remarkable. I support the manga creators, the publishers, and the fans in rejecting this measure. |
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torontoanimemeetup
Posts: 24 |
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Thanks for the name thing, I misread that.
It's very unclear what the bill is right now, but if it mean taking away the creator power to depict a 7 years girl getting raped then I am all for it... But I don't think the Bill take anything away from the creator, the Bill simply say if a 7 years old girl is being raped you need to be 18+ to buy the manga.
ONLY in adults comics... You'll never found them in Spider-Man, X-men, Superman or any comics published by Marvel or DC.
REALL... I could of swore Ruh wrote something about FREE SPEECH, but I could be wrong... Is there a bill for my writing?
Just exactly how are you? What he was thinking? This is not REAL LIFE, we do not need to know what he is thinking because it is all up to the writer. What is important is what he/she is doing, meaning what we are seeing on our TV. Is he/she committing an unlawful acts against someone?
If nothing was Shown then what is the problem? |
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Mad_Scientist
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 3011 |
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Well, if you're all for the bill that's one thing. That's different from saying that it gives publishers more creative control or encourages creativity. But I think you are too focused on the whole "7 year old getting raped" thing. That's why I said your post had straw men, because that's an extreme example and most depictions of that would already result in a manga being for adults only. This bill isn't focused only on the extreme stuff.
Come on now, there is plenty of homosexual content in mainstream comics. It's not that common, but depiction of homosexuals isn't really considered that taboo or odd in the US anymore. As for rape, you won't see a graphic depiction of it in most DC or Marvel comics, but it does occur, at least as a plot point. And given the wording of this bill, it's not clear if a graphic depiction is even needed for it to apply.
This is a forum maintained by ANN. It's a privately run thing. Thus, they are able to make the rules. It's not a restriction of free speech because the government isn't involved. If you want to host your own blog or whatever, you can insult people and call them retards all you want. I'd just recommend you don't do it here. I can't force you to stop, but it will ultimately result in your posts getting edited or deleted, which is something you probably won't want. Now, if some guy in the US passed a law that forced all providers of message boards to delete posts that contain "retard" used as an insult, then yes, that would be a violation of free speech.
Marrying someone against her will, while she's unconscious? Yah, I'd say that would generally be considered an unlawful act in most cases. There's another scene in One Piece which has some characters attempting to spy on a couple of characters in a bath, one of which is under 18. I'm not totally sure about the laws in Japan, but I know in the US doing something like that could get you in BIG trouble, maybe even get you on the sex offender registry.
Well, the translation of the bill I read says "depicts" which means that actually showing the act in graphic detail may not be required. Hence another example of the bill being too vague. |
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robcomet1
 Posts: 4 Location: Rockford, IL |
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Dude, you really need to proofread before posting.
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Septeus7
Posts: 88 |
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If well your scholarly conventions aren't aware of this "bold assumption" I suggest they read the essay. Quote from Theodicy" "Evil may be taken metaphysically, physically and morally. Metaphysical evil consists in mere imperfection, physical evil in suffering, and moral evil in sin ....hence it follows that God wills antecedently the good and consequently the best. And as for evil, God wills moral evil not at all, and physical evil or suffering he does not will absolutely. Thus it is that there is no absolute predestination to damnation; and one may say of physical evil, that God wills it often as a penalty owing to guilt, and often also as a means to an end, that is, to prevent greater evils or to obtain greater good. The penalty serves also for amendment and example. Evil often serves to make us savour good the more; sometimes too it contributes to a greater perfection in him who suffers it, as the seed that one sows is subject to a kind of corruption before it can germinate: this is a beautiful similitude, which Jesus Christ himself used." Seems pretty karmic to me and it would make sense as Liebniz was a Scholar of Chinese Classical Philosophy. |
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therealspratt
Posts: 1 |
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You know I agree with you crazy person that Brain Rub is an absolute disgrace! I see him colluding with that evil Team Mahjong on Twitter all the time, probably plotting how they're going to destroy anime and manga someday! But seriously lay off of Brian, it is ridiculous to say that he's a "bad writer". I'd like you to get a work professionally published to be honest.
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robcomet1
Posts: 4 Location: Rockford, IL |
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Totally. Mr. Rub and Tim Mahjong are the end of anime!
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Septeus7
Posts: 88 |
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My entire argument was the creativity that will result finding ways to sidetrack censorship and regulatory affronts could have the potential crossover effect in industry that in my opinion is lacking creative titles at the moment. I'm am the ultimate anime watcher for non-mecha and card series. I do not lack awareness diversity and quantity of Japanese anime over time. I think the Ecchi/Moe phenomena is a real result of the Global Recession where studios took less chances in development than during the anime boom from 1999-2007. To demostrate my point I'm going picked titles that I've watched from two different years and see what year I associate with some of best anime memories. Where are the titles "Crest of the Stars," "Harlock Saga," "Samurai X," "Great Teacher Onizuka ," Excel Saga, Infinite Ryvius, Hunter X Hunter,Kaikan Phrase, Kamikaze Kaitou Jeanne. Pet Shop of Horrors, Now and Then, Here and There, Legend of Black Heaven, Initial D: Second Stage, and Big O. Heck even the weaker titles like Soul Hunter and Betterman where fun. All 16 of those titles where from 1999. I'm just going to list Let's see about 2010 we have "Nodame Cantabile: Finale," Working!!," "Angel Beats!,"Rainbow - Nisha Rokubō no Shichinin, "Shiki," "Occult Academy," "Bakuman." Along perhaps , Tatami Galaxy, Giant Killing, and Senkō no Night Raid which I haven't watched yet. So for 2010 we 7 good titles and possibly 3 more okay titles. The rest of 2010 is is stuff like High School of the Dead, Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt, Sekirei, K-On, To-Love-Ru, KissXSis, and f@cking Heroman aka garbage. I'm don't even really want to time into last 3 because while they may be okay they are not anything near to the 1999 titles. Essentially the only titles of this year that is on the level of 1999 is "Shiki." I've been in the habit of picking my favs for every year since I started watching anime back in 1998 and I'm findin stuff for my buy list since the recession has decease from 5-10 titles per year to 1 and I'm not the only one as similar stats are evidence from declining sales. Studios have taken sequals and cheap Moe/ ecchi gimmicks where as back 1999 anime like Crest of Stars dealt which serious questions about being human and group indenity versus individual choices. I think most of the official ANN reviewers feel the same way looking at the decline in ratings and even the number things folks like Zac are willing to even look at. The problem is the folks running the Industry don't understand how to deal with a depressed economy. You can't reduce costs, play it safe, and reduce quality. During a depressed market with less demand folks need greater incentives to buy so need products that stand out. The industry should reduce the number of titles and go with "riskier" and complex novel ideas with high production values. While everyone else is is fearing the loss of revenue and cutting production values the studio that produces smaller numbers of titles of superior quality will dominate the market. |
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Mushi-Man
 Posts: 1537 Location: KCMO |
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Good point, but you have to admit that yaoi will still be seen as "gay porn" to extreme right wing politicians in Japan. And lets not forget about BL manga which would make people like Ishihara have a heart attack. Also you're right Ishihara is a crack, there have been some crazy politicians in Japanese history, but his guy might take the cake. He seems to literally have no common sense what so ever. Are we really so desperate to get rid of loli porn that we would look to this guy to get rid of it? Like he can talk all he wants about how loli hentai is bad (which it is) but in the end he's not the most morally positive guy on the block either. On another note: Who's up for VOTING torontoanimemeetup the title of biggest forum wacko? Honestly I have never read such an ill-informed post in my life. He claimed that he was a comic reader and had never seen gay comic characters, I guess he has never heard of Norhtstar or Apollo and Midnighter, I guess he just only reads comics that don't have gay people in it. Then he tries to attack Brian for being morally irresponsible by calling him a "retard", yeah that's very moral of him. Then the rest of his post is mindless ramblings which prove his limited knowledge of the topic. Maybe torontoanimemeetup should pitch his rant to Fox and Friends, I'm sure some crazy person over there would care about it. In the mean time, people who actually know about what they are talking about can continue to have a developed conversation. |
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Mad_Scientist
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 3011 |
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Septeus7, I understand your arguement. It's one several have made. But I believe your hope is ill-founded.
As I said before, taking away choices from anime creators is unlikely to encourage creativity. You can't force it like that. Those who produce drek will probably continue to produce drek, it will simply be drek of a different type. Heck, you yourself mention moe, but I believe a large number of moe series don't have anything that would run afoul of this bill. A lot of them are extremely tame actually, far more so than many other anime series. You also mention Heroman. While I disagree with your opinion on the quality of that series (I think it was pretty fun light-hearted series), it's yet another example of a series you feel is trash that wouldn't be affected by the bill. And for that matter, one of the series you mentioned as being good, Great Teacher Onizuka, has a lot of sexual content, though I haven't seen the series myself so I can't comment on it too much. Also you mention Now and Then, Here and There, which features rape. As I said before, I think those who have been producing drek will continue to do so. |
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einhorn303
 Posts: 1180 |
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This is a diffierent topic, but I thought it might be quite interesting and relevant to this discussion of the Ordinance:
Nogami Takeshi et. al. make doujinshi on Tokyo Ordinance, include English translation, will sell it internationally online and permit free online file sharing (animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1023314#1023314) |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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Even if we consider official rankings of shows and find a relationship between average rankings of shows of then and now, it is not relevant to the issue. Because we were talking about visual elements such as moe and ecchi, not quality or how well rated shows were. Censorship does not necessarily make a show better or worse. There are plenty of anime that completely lack adult themes and fanservice, and are wonderful shows. I am watching one currently and I love it. But we abhor censorship and regulation of content because art, offensive or not, is expression that should be left in the hands of those who make it. Just because we acknowledge nudity, visual explicitness and moe girlies are not needed to make a show great does not mean upholding quality in storytelling justifies criminalizing those visual elements. |
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Mushi-Man
Posts: 1537 Location: KCMO |
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You know one of the biggest problems with this bill is that most of the supporters of it are under this false illusion that it's only going after loli porn that shows graphic depictions of 7 year olds getting raped (even though these wouldn't be effected at all seeing as they are already sold as 18+ material). They don't stop to think that something like Neon Genesis Evangelion would most likely fall into this bill's grip. The 14 year olds in Eva were very sexual and often had nudity, but it actually meant something. Or look at Suzuka which had high school students having sex. Or Bitter Virgin which involved rape and the horrible effects it had a a teenage girl. And who's to say they will leave Shin-Chan alone when it has something like the Elephant Dance?
This bill's language doesn't just limit it to loli porn, it's able to reach much farther into the anime/manga community and take away many wonderful titles from the teenage market. |
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The Mad Manga Massacre
Posts: 1166 |
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One other title I don't think anyone has mentioned that this bill could potentially effect is Sailor Moon as there is a lesbian relationship between Sailor uranus and Sailor Neptune. I shudder at the thought of Sailor Moon (a series I loved as a child) being kept behind some glass case with adult porn titles. |
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HyugaHinata
 Posts: 3505 |
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Except that they're not showing you girls' underwear; no one's forcing you to watch anything you dislike or disapprove of. Should lingerie be kept in the loading dock so women can feel ashamed when they replenish their pantyhoses? |
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