Forum - View topicREVIEW: Elfen Lied DVD 1
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darkhunter
 Posts: 2992 Location: Los Angelas |
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Wow, thanks for stating the obvious. |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Last edited by Mohawk52 on Wed May 18, 2005 9:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dachande
 Posts: 89 Location: Savannah, Ga |
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So let me see if I get you right. Because you don't like the show, you have to go out of your way and so adamently say that anyone who likes the show is an basically idiot who only craves violence, and that the reviewer is biased after only seeing the first DVD? Sounds like your an attention whore. |
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khryoleoz
 Posts: 158 |
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Attention whore? Maybe. No, I actually find comfort in anonymity. But regardless of how I am, that has no bearing on the fact that no one yet has challenged me on the substance of my review...other than to differing opinions. And I'm not sure that anyone can as I don't imagine myself to be too far off the mark.
Now it would behoove you to re-read "all that crap". I have not equated people who like the show to idiots prone to violence, but exposed that the show is liked on the basis of violent and mature content (again, nothing wrong with that). I just find it perplexing that those who like the show persist in presenting it as having more substance than is actually demonstrated. The production/aesthetic efforts (animation, character designs, music, audio) are all competently done. Asking for complete originality and innovation may be unfair. But I can't see where it has been effective in portraying empathetic characters when they've been conceived in such ways that goes against the grain of human nature. It could be that I'm looking for something in the show that is not there because it was not intended to be there. If so, then I would concede to being wrong. I can't criticize an effort for not accomplishing something it had never set out to accomplish. |
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Dachande
Posts: 89 Location: Savannah, Ga |
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Maybe that has something to do with the fact that many have not fully seen it yet. Because I'm sure you realize that the first DVD did just come out and that the entire show isn't on the DVD, so no one can fully say that the show is bad or good until then. We can only say it looks good, which it does.
And if you re-read what I posted you'd see that I never said that you said that the people who watch the show are prone to violence. I said craves violence. There's a difference.
Or, assuming it is there, you just haven't found them yet. Deeper meanings are very well hidden in movies and TV series with lots of violence, sex, and nudity. Take Visiotor Q for instance. The majority of people that watch it only notice the violence, sex, and all the onther stuff. What they don't notice is the deeper meaning behind the film. Family values. I can't say if Elfen Lied even has a deeper meaning as I haven't seen the show yet
Your right. It is unfair to ask for a completly original anime these days. Maybe if we were back in the 80s or so, yes asking for something completely original would be fair, but in these days it isn't.
You could be right. The show may just be all about the blood, gore, and fanservice. But as I said it may also have a much deeper meaning to it than that. |
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Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
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Anonymous? Hardly. While you may not be getting a face-to-face response given to you, you have a username that identifies you. Any response we give to that username is directed towards you. It's not a matter of guest comments and posts, but of replies that are rather user specific. Since you are able to reply, you have an identified voice. It's certainly enough to discard the idea that you are anonymous when it comes to reciving attention.
While I'd love to go over your review and point out where I think you are incorrect, I run into a couple of small problems. 1) This thread is specific to the review of the first DVD only. This is not the place to discuss the series as a whole. 2) I am rather pressed for time at the moment and do not wish to create hurried posts that do not have ample thought put into them when it comes to a matter of debate. |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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khryoleoz
Posts: 158 |
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If there is any attention to be desired by anybody including me, it would be a positive one. It is more edifying to keep a company of friends than feebly attempt to gain infamy only to be viewed the fool.
I generally like to fly below the radar of most people. But true to Elfen Lied's design, it evokes a response one way or another and I find myself compelled to state my own observations, primarily because I am confounded at the majority of viewers' too favorable impressions when it is at its core mediocre. I am very interested in reading a rebutle and a study of the areas in which I am incorrect. The small problems may be overcome. Please take the time you need. And, as I've already ventured outside of the thread's purpose, the only option is to follow suit. And if a third problem is that only the first four episodes are within access for now, then fine. I can retire from the subject knowing that the series will take its course exactly as I've laid out. And having too much faith in my own instinct, I can say that the series will continue to enthrall viewers through blood and guts amidst a cozy harem of fantastical personalities. There is a difference between craving and being prone to violence. But my statements still have not equated viewers who enjoyed the show to idiots that are either. And if there are hidden meaningful symbolisms and values that are to be unearthed, would Elfen Lied better elicit our finding them by assaulting our senses with its shock material done solely for a self-serving purpose? As I've articulated in my own consumer review of Narutaru, it has only a fraction of the explicit shock material that so many anime resorts to, but does a better job (in my not-so-humble opinion) at impacting shock as opposed to shocking for impact. And its message is clear, that a man turned demigod is a fearsome, loathesome creature. Just ask any liberal of his opinion of the Bush administration and Christians. |
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chicogrande
 Posts: 190 Location: Huntsville, Alabama |
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Yawn, yawn & YAWN. So the only angle in this new title is that the main character goes on bloody rampages NAKED and the rest of the time she is a cute half-naked looks-like-she-is-underage female. Again with this crap! How boring. Is that the only way these days that SOME Japanese anime producers can attract attention to new titles? She is a blood thirsty killer, but hey, she can also pose seductively while teasing you with her plump breasts and shaven genitals!
Last edited by chicogrande on Mon May 23, 2005 7:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18189 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Responding to a couple of different posts here.
Once I have seen the rest of the series, perhaps I will respond to all of your points, but at this time I am limited by what has been released. Also see below.
Maybe "morons" or "idiots" was too strong a use of words, but you did say. . .
Whether you intended it that way or not, that's definitely an attack on the fan, rather than the title. That's the kind of comment I was objecting to in earlier posts, and one of the main things that's getting people riled up here, khryoleoz. You're perfectly welcome to speak your opinion all you like about the title, but there's no place for calling fans "misguided" or "obtuse" just because they don't agree with your view.
So you're basing your claims of bias on comments made in a single review and your own assumptions about the series and people who would watch it? That's awfully presumptuous. Your overriding criticism has been an utter lack of substance and depth. I cannot comment on that fully without seeing more of the series, but based on what I have seen so far there's more substance and character depth than what you're claiming is present. Yes, Nana was obviously set up to be a pitiable and sympathetic character, but that worked for me. Yohta and Yuka may not be the most well-developed leads, but this is a primarily a horror series, not a romance, so expecting the same degree of character development is unrealistic. Besides, these first four episodes do provide solid insights into both characters. Kohta is clearly haunted by the losses of loved ones in his life, to the point that they are weighing him down, while Yuka came into the picture expecting certain things of Kohta and is struggling to deal with the fact that things aren't turning out as she'd hoped. Even Kurama is shown to have at least a bit of depth, as he clearly sees Nana as something more than just another tool. As for Lucy/Nyu? Too soon to tell there. I think you're also losing sight of the fact that this isn't a dramedy or a drama or a "harem" series. Based on the first volume, Elfen Lied is, first and foremost, a horror series. It is supposed to be very visceral and provoke strong reactions; that's what effective horror titles do. Its main job is to shock, disturb, unnerve, and/or creep out the viewer. These Elfen Lied does as well as any other anime title out there (at least in my experience). The presence of graphic content alone does not a horror title make; it has to be used effectively, and backed with proper music and tone. That's what separates a title like this from something like, say, Hellsing (which was much more about style than horror) or Wicked City (which was much more about being as graphic as possible than about being truly scary). Is Elfen Lied heavy on recycled material and short on originality? Yeah, it is. Is its overall plot refreshingly new? No, it isn't. as I said in the review, though, the appeal of this title, beyond the technical merits and shock value, is in its execution. Even the most tired characters and story elements can be interesting if done well, and I feel that this series is a good example (at least so far). Apparently you don't agree, so let's just leave it at that. I will be reviewing future volumes as they come out, so we'll see whether or not my opinion changes as I watch more. (There's at least one other current case where I gave a series a postive review based on the first volume but am going to have to downgrade my evaluation after seeing the second volume, so perhaps that will happen here, too.) |
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manafairy
 Posts: 113 Location: My own tweaked world.... |
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That basically sums up my thoughts on the first volume as well. I mean, with how much hype it got, I certainly wasn't expecting just another stock harem show, thats only originality comes from a few scenes of violence and gore. I do love excessive violence and gore, but not even that was enough to make this interesting. I might force myself to finish it if I hear it gets tromendously better, but at the rate its going, it's going to be down with Kare Kano and Chobits on my "shows that I despise vehemently" list.... In conclusion: Boring, boring, boring! |
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khryoleoz
Posts: 158 |
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This does not address the fan community nor even fans of Elfen Lied in general. Those who do confuse Elfen Lied for what I've qualified would indeed be misguided in their affection and to persist that it is some masterpiece would make them obtuse, unless of course all of my points are invalid, which they're not. I've not been so careless at all, but purposeful with my statements. Call me presumptuous, but there was a time when I myself had been too uninitiated in anime that I defended Ninja Scroll, Wicked City, Vampire Hunter D, Golgo 13: The Professional, and Crying Freeman as outstanding features and would watch nothing but movies and OVA's that yielded guns, swords, high body counts, and T&A. Being human, I can infer from, not just presume that, my own as well as others' experiences to be common and remain that way for many.
What idea is advanced by stating this without being able to fully comment on the idea at the time it is being stated? Well regardless, I'm not impaired at criticizing the title by not having seen it entirely. For the time I've spent with the series and the money I'm about to commit to it, I wish there was something substantive I can claim about the series. Let's see. The material content categorizes the title under the horror genre, but the killing off of characters had been executed (pun intended) never creating suspense and tension. The diclonious is unleashed and all we see is the dismemberment of characters. Or they fight and dismember each other. I wouldn't call that inducing horror effectively. I've seen Nosferatu, The Amityville Horror, The Exorcist, Rosemary's Baby, Friday The 13th, A Nightmare On Elm Street, Attack Of The Clones, Bad Boys, and Spice World to have an idea of good horror tactics. Elfen Lied as a horror endeavor is on the same level as Lunar Legend Tsukihime, but Arcueid was not bipolar and, having her wits intact, was quite sympathetic. Elfen Lied is more akin to Godzilla, King Kong, The Thing, and other monster movies but insists otherwise. So failing at being an effective horror title (at least by my criteria), what does it become when one by one human girls and female diclonius become residents of one man's domicile? And what do we call any attempt to appeal to our emotions by introducing characters with tragic pasts and/or presents, even though the personalities that would surely have been shaped by these tragic experiences a certain way are misaligned? Kouta...this characterization is probably the most frustrating component of the title. A foggy memory, wishy washy spoiler[(though he does eventually kiss Yuka)], we've seen this character how many times before? Tenchi at least killed Kagato. Urashima defied the odds and pursued Narusegawa, even against her own will, but not without risking life and limb (well, limb at least since he was immortal) and first rejecting Kanako and the lovable Otohime. Hanabishi Kaoru confronted the iron will of his beloved's father to persuade him of his daughter's hand. Morisato Suguru, having realized his helplessness, enhanced his physical structure to destroy all androids spawned by Management. spoiler[Kouta, haunted indeed with the loss of his family, does what when he realizes whose hand it was that inflicted upon him his loss? You'll just have to wait and see.] We've had our share of bipolar characters. Chief of them all is Himura the battousai. A wonderful incomplete character who is shaped by tragedy after tragedy towards completion. The split personas dynamically feed on one another. But in Lucy, Nyu was created only to reduce the body count that would otherwise be had Lucy been continually at the forefront. If there was a second purpose, then it was so that the character can be part of the harem. Lucy and Kurama are the most realistic characters in the show. We expect Lucy to be a killing animal. Her emotional faculties were so underdeveloped that she should not know affection, concern, and love, but only the things that are basic to ensuring her own survival. spoiler[A diclonius having too meager an amount of time experiencing a familial, platonic or even romantic relationship is not enough to instill such values that would desire the preservation of another's well being. But the makings of a human struck by tragedy but in spite of that lives out a fairly normal life is profoundly different. So again, Kouta's reaction to a certain revelation is just fake and wishfull.] Well, I give up. I'm not as interested in prosecuting a derogative review of the title, and mounting a defense of it, than when I first posted. This skirmish has exhausted my will and wits to continue. But I appreciate it, as I may now move on to more positive activities and material, namely my current favorite, Fumoffu. I'll continue to wait patiently for the 2nd half of Kaleido Star and Super Gals (seeing as I have no choice), so you can release them any time now ADV. Thanks. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18189 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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In light of this, I'll refrain from making further comments. I still disagree with a lot of what you have said (most especially the first paragraph of your last post), and you completely lost me on some of your references, but I also feel I have sufficiently argued my case for now. One parting question I have to ask, though: if you really dislike the series that much, why would you plan to spend money on buying it? Since we're so far apart on this one, I will be very curious to see what you think of my review of Fumoffu when it comes up. It's currently waiting in the "to be edited and posted" stack, so it should be out sometime in the next week or so. |
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MaestroDelphine
 Posts: 10 Location: Ohio |
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I think khryoleoz just likes to hear himself talk! If you hate the show so much then why pursue the subject so strongly??? You must realize you are talking to the most stubborn people on the planet (anime fans) and that you are in the end wasting your time...
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darkhunter
Posts: 2992 Location: Los Angelas |
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Yes the hype was that Elfen Lied is ultra violent and has nudity. And a lot of people are just stunned by the first 7 min, praising it as one of the most original show ever. Most of the episode on the first volume was a bit unoriginal. |
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