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Skipping back to the initial topic ('cause it's something I've honestly been worried about for a while)... I'm of two minds about Disney sequels. I don't mind at all when they sequelize recent works (Atlantis 2, which probably shouldn't even really count, the Aladdin trilogy, The Lion King 2, The Little Mermaid 2, Tarzan and Jane, the Beauty and the Beast Christmas thing). I won't buy it, but it doesn't offend me. This stuff is modern Disney.

It's when they go plunging into stuff that doesn't belong to them, that I get bothered. The whole feel behind the original is lacking, because the way Disney movies are made has changed so much since then. 'Classic' Disney has an air of innocence; Walt & Co. didn't seem to have to worry half as much about keeping their movies PC-ified and uncontroversial. Their modern stuff, while usually still decent (okay, so the Emperor's New Groove is pretty great), always feels far more self aware. It can work, but the original 'magic' is missing.

Case in point: the horrific prospect of Snow White 2. Snow White portrayed women as either helpless or evil; it's not intentional, and it certainly doesn't interfere with my enjoyment of the film. Unfortunately, it goes against the Modern Rules Of Cartoon Making to not have some form of female good'n'tough-ish character. I just don't want that.

Adding to my current delusions, I'm believing Disney won't sequelize Snow White because: a.) they can claim to be protecting the integrity of their crown jewel, and b.) because Happily Ever After exists, and they don't want to have to deal with it.

Tenchi: "Well, the budget was $90 million (though I don't think the amount spent on publicity is included) and by December 31st, it had made $84 million domestically, so if you take into account the the international markets and video/DVD sales (especially geeks like me who bought the double disk set), Atlantis should at least break even."

Notice you said December 31. Atlantis came out in the summer. So the fact that Disney had to extend its release to get any profit out of it just shows how badly it did. In fact, Disney was already firing animators who worked on it, even before the movie was released.

"Notice you said December 31. Atlantis came out in the summer. So the fact that Disney had to extend its release to get any profit out of it just shows how badly it did. In fact, Disney was already firing animators who worked on it, even before the movie was released."

Yesm Atlantis was a bomb at the box office. They cancelled most of the plans they had for it, didn't submit it for a best animated feature Oscar, and scrapped the "Team Atlantis" TV series they had planned. It just didn't work. Pointing this out again and again... serves what purpose exactly?

"You can't blame the fans for a Disney dud. The real problem with Atlantis is not because it's "unoriginal". The problem with Atlantis is because it is unimaginative, uninspiring, and BORING."

Well, that's completely subjective, yet you present it as fact. That's your opinion. I liked the film, and so did the 15 friends or so I saw it with. I wasn't blaming the fans for a "dud", I was blaming them for being obnoxious, predictable, self-righteous fanboys. You know, the kind who go out of their way to be "right" about everything all the time and make it a point to make everyone around them look foolish for not knowing some lame little bit of trivia. The kind with dismal social skills and no charisma or charm and can't talk to other men OR women. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. They love to bash Disney because they make animation for children and here they are trying to prove again and again and again that some animation is for adults. They're trying to validate their hobby and it's easier to do that when you have a straw man to tear apart. Witness how most of them will sit there and say "Ho ho ho, THIS movie isn't for kids!" over and over again? They'll also attach meaning and purpose to shows CLEARLY meant for children, like Digimon and Pokemon (hell, even Sailor Moon and Card Captor Sakura, which have what we consider to be somewhat adult themes in them, but they're still Japanese toy commercials for little girls), and claim that these "subversive" elements (that they're assigning themselves but do not actually exist in the series) make the show unviewable by children. So no, Animan, I wasn't blaming the fans for Atlantis' failure. I was blaming them for being who they are.

-Zac

I don't think it's just about whether Disney is for kids that's the problem. Otherwise, the Final Fantasy movie would've automatically been a box office smash. The problem is the issue of sh*tty, derivative animation. (And yes, Japan is suffering from that too, or they wouldn't have so many artists heading for the video game industry.)

"Well, that's completely subjective, yet you present it as fact. That's your opinion."

I am well aware of that it is an opinion and I am also aware that it is the opinion of more than half the critics across the nation.

Look Zac, my REAL point and objections here is your use of the label "fanboy" to decribe people who have a complaint...or your using that accusatory lable on people that happened to LIKE Sailormoon or Pokemon:

"Witness how most of them will sit there and say 'Ho ho ho, THIS movie isn't for kids!' over and over again? They'll also attach meaning and purpose to shows CLEARLY meant for children, like Digimon and Pokemon (hell, even Sailor Moon and Card Captor Sakura, which have what we consider to be somewhat adult themes in them, but they're still Japanese toy commercials for little girls), and claim that these 'subversive' elements (that they're assigning themselves but do not actually exist in the series) make the show unviewable by children."

You know there is a wide audience for both of these shows, why slap a lable on audiences (in a derogatory manner) as if they're some kind of social outcast group or something for liking these shows, or for having a complaint?

(By the way, the "Pokemon has subversive eliments" claim came fron a Daily Variety critic a couple of years ago--I saw his review of the TV show. Does that make him a "Fanboy"? What's suppose to make you so immune from that label?)

my comments on Atlantis is also reaction to people promoting it here on this board as if it's some kind of underrateted classic. It isn't. And American audiences reaction to the film doesn't exactly proves that the movie was great movie making. Sure, some people liked Atlantis--that's no surprise to me. But when people here start claiming it should be nominated for best animated film over the three that has been chosen, well, then they're pushing it--as if the academy has missed an opportunity to pick a great film or something. Atlantis? Give me a break.

But I'm not going to lable people "Atlantis lovers", "fanboys", "social outcasts", and "Pokemon" lovers (or what have you, Zac) like they are all sick or something for liking something, or if they have a complaint--even it they are wrong about their complaints.

Be careful.

WELL, if Disney goes ahead and releases Sen To Chihiro, that will probely be the only Disney film I bought since Princess Mononoke. Razz

I saw it in the theater. I spent the movie trying to figure out the voice of the Atlantian ruler instead of paying attention to the plot. Must've watched too much Star Trek as a kid.