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ANNCast - Moe Money, Moe Problems


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SonicRenegade84



Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 630
Location: Atlantis!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:10 pm Reply with quote
So as i'm gonna get back on topic with moe, I have realized that by adding everyone's definitions together, Moe is everything and anything. Girls with glasses is Moe. Girls in swimsuits is Moe. Small boys with stuffed bunnies is Moe. Girls who carve starfish are Moe. Girls who draw pictures are Moe. People eating crackers is Moe. A bicycle is Moe. Frogs are Moe. Osama Bin Laden is Moe. Everything and anything that someone can think of is Moe. The day that this term was made was the day that it took over anime characters, shows and other anime terms as well.

This can be taken both as a joke and as a serious proposition. It's up to you as to what you take it as.
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Gewürtztraminer



Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 1028
Location: Texas - Its like whole other country.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:33 pm Reply with quote
I gave up on the defining moe. According to the definition I once accepted, to me personally Gunslinger Girls was the most moe anime ever created. You as the viewer were horrified at the girls plight and desperately wanted to 'rescue' them and try to give them as normal a childhood as possible. The female handler lamented the fact that she could not make them all ballerinas. And for this title which so distinctly boils down the essence of moe for me..... there is no clear consensus on if it is even moe. I think some are confusing Bishojo char designs for moe, and have that being the primary determiner.

For me discussing moe as a topic on the internet has reached about the same effectiveness as discussing religion on a public message board, it is all just shouts, individual shouts in the windy dark.

Still enjoyed the podcast though. Resulting thread, not so much.
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dewlwieldthedarpachief



Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 751
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:07 pm Reply with quote
Agreed; internet buggery aside, I enjoy every one of these podcasts. I now find myself going into withdrawal during the weeks they are absent! Shocked
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Spotlesseden



Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 3513
Location: earth
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:47 pm Reply with quote
i don't see any problem with Moe or like moe anime. Anime is just entertainment after all. I don't even know Haruhi Suzumiya is moe anime. I guess i'm moe fans too.

they said Moe fans are anonying. mostly because moe haters are trying to pick fights.
moe fans don't really go out of their way to argue unless other people go to their forums and try to insult the anime or the people who like the anime.

If you don't like it, leave them alone and don't go their forum/topic to tell them why you hate this kind of anime. everybody can have peace this way.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 5897
Location: Cypress, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:57 am Reply with quote
Lord Geo wrote:
Charred Knight wrote:
Was I the only person who confused Touhou with Toho.


*imagines Godzilla firing bullet-hell-atomic-breath patterns from his mouth*

*Approves!*



A Touhou game with Godzilla would be very interesting for me. I wish that could happen.

Well, anyway back on topic, interesting podcast and I do like the segment. I agree with Zac and the guys on the podcast. I can answer maybe these question:

Does moe hurt the industry?: I used to thought this until I heard Group TAC and Office Ao has filed for bankruptcy. 2 of these studio/production companies have not been involved with moe anime recently. I don't see anime studio that work on moe suffer the same fate as Group TAC and Office Ao. So there's no way moe is hurting the industry. It's the economy that's been hurting Japan. Also Ken Akamatsu has said that the moe boom has ended. Also I did some research on Japan's economy. I think everybody should be aware that Japan was in recession since 2008. So a lot of industry in Japan is effected, that include anime and manga. The moe trend started somewhere way before Japan's recession in 2008. Also I think all the merchandise, toys, memorabilia relating to moe anime keep the anime industry from failing completely. I can come to conclusion that moe has nothing to do with anime industry financially, it's another case of scapegoat on moe.

I think people on ANN should read about Japan's Lost decade to know more about Japan's economy.

Does moe hurt anime in term of plot and creativity?: Well, that would be hard for me to answer. It could be a yes or no, it's subjective. I know moe anime that just doesn't have a plot and just focus on the cuteness of female anime character. I know moe that just focus on fanservice and less on the plot. Yeah, those can ruin a good anime experience. But then again, each decade has it's own anime genre popularity. As the ANN podcast mention, the 70's and early 80's had mecha anime trend. the late 80's to mid 90's had cyberpunk anime. I'm sure there were mecha anime that were bad during the mecha anime trend back in the 70's, and I'm sure there were some cyberpunk anime that were mediocre. So the moe anime is just another example of trend. It'll have to end at some point. But I will agree that since the moe boom, there are moe anime that just doesn't have a plot and just focus on the cuteness of little anime girl and just use fanservice to get otaku and hardcore anime fan attention and forget the plot. That's one thing I don't like about moe, fanservice with no plot or narrative. I like moe if it work like with a good story, and minimal fanservice. If the moe anime has a lot of fanservice but a very good story, it'll also work for me.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
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Location: IL
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:03 am Reply with quote
Moe and fanservice do not go together.

Moe focuses on innocence and purity and all that, and there's none of that if you can see the girl's panties. That's why none of the KyoAni shows have panty-shots/fanservice (well, other than The Second Raid at least).
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kiddtic



Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Posts: 304
Location: Adelaide, Australia
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:40 am Reply with quote
SonicRenegade84 wrote:
So as i'm gonna get back on topic with moe, I have realized that by adding everyone's definitions together, Moe is everything and anything. Girls with glasses is Moe. Girls in swimsuits is Moe. Small boys with stuffed bunnies is Moe. Girls who carve starfish are Moe. Girls who draw pictures are Moe. People eating crackers is Moe. A bicycle is Moe. Frogs are Moe. Osama Bin Laden is Moe. Everything and anything that someone can think of is Moe. The day that this term was made was the day that it took over anime characters, shows and other anime terms as well.

This can be taken both as a joke and as a serious proposition. It's up to you as to what you take it as.


Thats Exactly what I said and as a result everything "crap" is Moe and if you are one that doesnt like Moe...(The real Moe, whatever that is according to you) Then Anime is headed downhill. I mean i could argue that the lead character from Eden of the East is Moe (I forgot her name the red head) and that would make one of the best anime created in the past few years Moe which would lead people to say EotE is a bad show cause they hate Moe. I hope I havnt lost anyone.
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Spotlesseden



Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 3513
Location: earth
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:41 am Reply with quote
yeah i don't think Moe and fan service are the same.
k-on is the most popular Moe anime for the couple of years. probably the most popular anime based on blu-ray/dvd sold.
it has little to no fan service. it has no story either.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:00 am Reply with quote
But it has no story because it's a slice-of-life anime, not because it has a cast full of moe characters.
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Nephtis



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 138
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 am Reply with quote
I'd just like to post to say thanks for another informative and interesting discussion (complete with good humour!).

Mostly though I'd like to thank Hope for summing up Air for me. I stopped watching because I didn't care about the characters. Then I thought about picking it up because so many people go on about it. Having heard what happens I now never need to wonder again, thanks a lot!

Oh and Zac, do you see various moe character faces on people down the street? Moe...moe....moe....moe...
Razz
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Ranma824



Joined: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 456
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:08 am Reply with quote
Cheesecracker wrote:
OK

My last bite at the (Moe) title apple:

Potatmoe
Potahtmoe

Let's call the whole thing off.


FAILURE!

It's Potemayo! Razz

SonicRenegade84 wrote:
Everything and anything that someone can think of is Moe.


Which is the inevitable endpoint in a meaningless exercise of trying to define "moe". The only reason it's an issue in the first place is because western fans (and some in Japan) have come to the conclusion that it's killing the industry!!

The only For Sure conclusion: As long as there's people saying how bad moe is (whether they get the concept or not); there will be people defending it.
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PrettyKitty20034



Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 119
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:33 am Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
Moe and fanservice do not go together.



Sure they do. Are we forgetting Strike Witches? I just watched the first episode and never have I been bombarded with so many ass and crotch shots in the first few minutes.

I think you are refering to the booby type of fanservice shows in that those are not intended to cater to the moe crowd. The girls in those shows tend to be buxom and mature looking instead of cute and innocent.

Also, on moe in general. I think people are getting too hung up on what they are moe for (everything under the sun) and losing sight of who these shows are created for. They aren't for us. Moe shows are are intended to appeal to the moe tastes of the Japanese otaku. That's a pretty small niche whose tastes are a little more specific. The plot can be anything, but the elements seem to include the huge eyes/small mouth art style, girls looking younger than their supposed ages, "cute" personalities (that includes the tsundere, which I don't find cute in the slightest, but the otaku seem to love. For ex, the popularity of Louise the Zero and Taiga.) I could go on and on...
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asimpson2006



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3151
Location: USA
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:19 am Reply with quote
PrettyKitty20034 wrote:


Sure they do. Are we forgetting Strike Witches? I just watched the first episode and never have I been bombarded with so many ass and crotch shots in the first few minutes.


The witches them selves are not moe at least to me. They can fight and defend themselves so that to me takes away from the moe factor. The females in the series that do not fight do give off a moe vibe.
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Veers



Joined: 31 Oct 2008
Posts: 1195
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:25 am Reply with quote
Enjoyed this one!

Question to any of the cast participants who may still be following the thread: did any of you see Sora no Woto? (or plan to watch when Nozomi releases it)

The discussion about "moe formulas" early on and then Zac's "big giant melting pot" at the end made me think of this show, because SnW has simple static characters that look like they fell out of Kannagi or K-ON, but handles serious themes in a way that is much more... mature, I guess (other than the nice, pat, too-convenient ending, maybe), than you might expect from something that looks like it does. SnW turned out to be a pleasant surprise, almost like if you'd taken Haibane Renmei, added war, and sugar coated it a few more times; the atmosphere and detail in SnW really kept me interested. As said by Greg, I think it was, execution is key, and I guess SnW's just worked for someone like me who can't even guardedly recommend most of the titles mentioned in this podcast with a clear conscience.
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PrettyKitty20034



Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 119
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:30 am Reply with quote
asimpson2006 wrote:
PrettyKitty20034 wrote:


Sure they do. Are we forgetting Strike Witches? I just watched the first episode and never have I been bombarded with so many ass and crotch shots in the first few minutes.


The witches them selves are not moe at least to me. They can fight and defend themselves so that to me takes away from the moe factor. The females in the series that do not fight do give off a moe vibe.


But, it doesn't matter if they aren't moe to you. This is what I was trying to say earlier. Moe isn't created for us, the American anime fans. It's created for the otaku in Japan. Moe is based on their tastes, not ours. Apparently it worked, because Strike Witches sold a lot of DVDs over there.
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