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NEWS: Article on Anime Child Porn


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mangajunky
Company Representative


Joined: 08 Aug 2003
Posts: 72
Location: New York City
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 10:02 am Reply with quote
NightHedgehog wrote:
Well, considering this stuff usually depicts acts of rape on children, I can really see why they want to ban the stuff. As unpopular as I may sound, I actually approve on limiting this kind of thing.

Of course, I'm against porn in general.


So is everyone ready to start banning Yaoi...I hope not because then I'll be out of a job. The yaoi titles I've worked on haven't had any scenes of rape on children. They have been mostly concerned with relationship issues and trust...and they happened to have sex scenes.
I far prefer working on Yaoi than working on any Toshio Maeda title...but I'd never have either of them banned. The examples have been sited over and over. Ban this but don't ban this. The moment you start restricting a person's freedom of expression because you feel uncomfortable with a topic you run the risk of something that you like being banned as well.
Our freedoms are on the line. Don't be fooled into thinking "oh that's icky and people shouldn't watch it". It's not your place to tell me or anyone (except your own children) what they can and cannot read or watch.

-Franky
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angel_lover



Joined: 22 Apr 2005
Posts: 645
Location: UK
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 10:26 am Reply with quote
If you're going to legislate, the problem is how you define what is acceptable and what isn't. At one end of the scale you have things that are clearly animated child pornography, and at the other a whole slew of titles that are otherwise fairly harmless apart from the occasional panty flash. Just suppose we agreed for the sake of argument that Lolikon Angel should be banned but Azumanga Daioh should not, then where does that leave titles like Elfen Lied, or Puni Puni Poemi? Have they crossed the line?
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Urusai



Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 10:33 am Reply with quote
What he means is that in some countries a woman showing someone her Lips on her face is the same as a woman showing her Vulva in america.

As for my opinion on it. Live Action porn involving under 13, hell under 16 is bad and should be illegal. The reason is that the child is directly involved in the making of it and there is harm being done to them at that time.
For animated porn it becomes a grey area because no child is hurt in the filming of it. Yes I agree that it is infringing on their rights of free expression. However it is also illegal to yell "Fire" falsly in a packed building and you could claim that is free expression.
I agree with banning titles that have children under 13 invovled in it. However the companies will just get inventive.
"NO she's not 6, she is 16 and has a disease that caused her body to stop developing. Ya, thats the ticket."

Its just sick that people get off on that. I will mention as the poster above did that I personally think Yaoi is sick. But I do not think it should be banned.

The problem with the issue is that it kind of falls in the same aspect of video games being banned for content. It is all virtual and nobody is being harmed in the making of it. However those with weak willpowers/minds are influanced by what they see and think they can do it themselves without recourse.

In my opinion. Yes they should ban it. Do I think it would help the situation, No it wont. They will just make it hard to find. Look at live child porn. Its not legal but if you look hard enough you can find just about anything. People will still make it, still distribute it, and still view it. However not every john doe can type it into google and get their kicks. Those are more likely the ones that are going to think its good to do themselves anyway.
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smutchi



Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Posts: 189
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 10:34 am Reply with quote
Bisuketto wrote:
I still wonder why many people feel that responsibility for one's actions are as a result from an outside source. Blaming other objects, things, or others as the cause of a problem is rather illogical and if I may say it, ignorant. The person committing a crime are at fault not anything else.


You know, I generally agree, you can't blame anything else but you and "objects, things or others" aren't the source of such problems we're dealing here with.
However people are influenced by different factors, such as education/parents, advertisements, fashion, custom, interests, etc etc
I guess there are not only few people here who are at least a little bit influenced by anime, manga or internet (also unconsciously)! As long as you know which influences are "bad" and which "good" for you and when you have to become careful towards your own behaviour.

Mohawk52 wrote:
I agree with most of what you say here that it was his responsibility to control himself but the sad fact is there are mentally unbalanced people in the world who simply can not do that and there's the old military addage "in order to fire a canon, a spark must first be struck".


I completely agree with that. Sadly, not only mentally unbalanced people, but also children/teens are especially susceptible to influences from outside.
Of course, that doesn't mean you should just illegalize everything that somehow could have a bad influence (I guess there wouldn't be anything left then anyways Wink).

To be honest, I don't really know if I'm pro or contra the interdiction of animated child porn. I don't feel qualified to decide right now.
As for the freedom of expression, I want to add, that where I live you're not at all free to say anything you want! F.e. it's not allowed to say or write racist stuff (in public)! I don't know the situation in the USA...
And, this is my personal opinion, I think it's good that way.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 10:34 am Reply with quote
mangajunky wrote:

So is everyone ready to start banning Yaoi...I hope not because then I'll be out of a job. The yaoi titles I've worked on haven't had any scenes of rape on children. They have been mostly concerned with relationship issues and trust...and they happened to have sex scenes.
I far prefer working on Yaoi than working on any Toshio Maeda title...but I'd never have either of them banned. The examples have been sited over and over. Ban this but don't ban this. The moment you start restricting a person's freedom of expression because you feel uncomfortable with a topic you run the risk of something that you like being banned as well.
Our freedoms are on the line. Don't be fooled into thinking "oh that's icky and people shouldn't watch it". It's not your place to tell me or anyone (except your own children) what they can and cannot read or watch.

-Franky
Erm, I know your location says NYC, but is that NYC, Japan? If not then you'll have nothing to fear. The article is about restricting animated child porn in Japan. But whether yaoi, yuri, or straight, child porn is child porn. Animated only means that a living child wasn't used. Also if they end up in scenes of having sex then sorry, that was the main plot anyway, not the relationship, and so much for trust, those were just the subway ride to the bedroom. Wink
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Skip



Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Posts: 3
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 10:40 am Reply with quote
Okay in my eyes it's like this:

Regular Child Porn = Not ok, it's just sick Confused

Anime Child Porn = Ok, it's just pictures what's wrong with that. Maybe there just very small people, who knows? Razz
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 10:47 am Reply with quote
Skip wrote:
Okay in my eyes it's like this:

Regular Child Porn = Not ok, it's just sick Confused

Anime Child Porn = Ok, it's just pictures what's wrong with that. Maybe there just very small people, who knows? Razz
If one can get past the moral ethics of it then there's nothing wrong with it as long as:
1) Children can't view it.
2) Those who desire it don't later target that desire to a living child.
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radicaledward



Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Posts: 776
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 11:01 am Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
2) Those who desire it don't later target that desire to a living child.
There in lies the problem, you have no way of guaranteeing that someone will not be motivated to go out and do something after being desensitized to it though anime, manga, and games. However, like wise you cannot guarantee that someone will to be motivated to go out and do something because the anime, manga, and games were allowing them to alleviate their desires via a non-real proxy.

It is certainty tragic that one person may be injured or killed as a result of someone getting out of hand due to anime, manga, and game that exposed them to the material and desensitized them to what they were doing. However, this may be a situation where those anime, manga and games are keeping 100 (or more) from going out and doing the same thing - where is it that you draw the line?
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TheTsunami



Joined: 19 Jul 2004
Posts: 147
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 11:08 am Reply with quote
I think the age restriction is an obvious need, and I support legislation against materials depicting pre-teen/loli's. Honestly, there is no good reason to defend pornographic material depicting children having sex/being raped, regardless of the 'its not real' argument.
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king_micah



Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 994
Location: OSU
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 11:09 am Reply with quote
SnowfairyX wrote:


That is an excellent point about freedom of expression. I recall a famous quote that says the same thing:

Martin Niemöller wrote:
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—
because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—
and there was no one left to speak out.

I prefer
South Park's Nambla Episode wrote:
Dude, you have sex with children.
Yeah, you know we believe in equality for everybody and tolerance and all that gay stuff. But dude, ---- you.
Seriously.

Pedophiles are not a social group who are harmless. It's sick, and wrong. Even virtually. What's sicker is that enough folks buy it to make it commercially viable.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8458
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 11:17 am Reply with quote
Not this again... well, actually, last time I kicked some ass debating.

As I said before, a person cannot be born by touching pen to paper. Neither of these is a reproductive organ. Therefore, the people created through the process of drawing, while they may imitate life, are not alive.

The fact that I even have to explain this to anyone is a sign that something has gone very, very wrong in the world.

You don't like lolicon hentai? Fine. Don't read it. I don't. But since it's not REAL CHILDREN involved, this is a no-brainer. You can't rightfully ban FICTIONAL pornography, that's insanely stupid.

The sky is big.

The oceans are wet.

Lolicon hentai isn't real child pornography.


"But it might influence somebody!"

Completely irrelevant. What it inspires is the responsibility of those it inspires.

Free speech means free for everyone, not just people you like. If they're sane, insane, psychopaths, sociopaths, junkies, flunkies, rednecks, choir boys, priests who touch choir boys, poets, rapists, songwriters, policemen, soldiers, garbage men, pizza men, abortion doctors, straight, gay, bisexual, black, white, short, tall, ect... for all of them, not some of them.
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Strategos



Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 91
Location: Ohio
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 11:20 am Reply with quote
What exactly is a "child" in animation anyway? You can draw a kid who looks 12 but say she is "18" in the anime. In any case, some guy blaming a murder on the fact that he watched some hentai which had girl who looked young in it is absurd. I despise people who try to blame everything they do or everything that is wrong on something else besides themselves. Nothing is anyones fault anymore.
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angel_lover



Joined: 22 Apr 2005
Posts: 645
Location: UK
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 11:29 am Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
Erm, I know your location says NYC, but is that NYC, Japan? If not then you'll have nothing to fear.

Except that the major source of supply would dry up.

king_micah wrote:
Pedophiles are not a social group who are harmless.

Pedophiles are adults who have sexual feelings for children, which in itself isn't a crime. A few of them can't repress their sexual desires, and then do commit crimes. As far as I'm aware, there isn't much around in the way of reliable research that indicates the level of criminality among pedophiles - it's probably a lot less percentagewise than it looks anyway because most pedophiles would never admit to their orientation.

king_micah wrote:
It's sick, and wrong. Even virtually.

Pedophilia may make you sick, and it may offend against your socio-cultural and/or moral values, but that doesn't make it sick or wrong in itself. And as for whether it's wrong even virtually, if you follow that argument to its logical conclusion and ban the depiction of any illegal activity, you'll have to put every newspaper along with the works of Shakespeare and the Bible in your pile of burning books.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 11:43 am Reply with quote
angel_lover wrote:
Mohawk52 wrote:
Erm, I know your location says NYC, but is that NYC, Japan? If not then you'll have nothing to fear.

Except that the major source of supply would dry up.
I doubt that would happen. Wink
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Red Coat



Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 21
Location: Fresno Ca
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 11:45 am Reply with quote
I think it stupid that people bring try to blame other for what they did. If you are dumb enough to believe what you see on T.v. is real then you shouldn't be allow to socialise with the public. But i think it wrong to depict young childeren doing sexual.
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