Forum

BlackJaded wrote:

BigSpoon wrote:

Altare wrote:

BlackJaded wrote:

Altare wrote:

I'm not condoning piracy, but the market for anime in america is terrible. The companies should be doing something about it. It's sad that the consumer is the one who has to fix it.

The only thing I'm worried about is how anime would be accepted in America television. Really I buy Funi DVD and sometimes buy Japanese DVD's. Fansubs are not the problem at all. The internet is still growing and TV maybe out in years soon.

This is so appalling to me because I thought everyone understood of what fansubs can do.

Most of my anime is fansubbed, but were it not for the fansubs, I wouldn't own most of the dvds I do now.

This is nothing but a cop out. You buy your dvds sure that's excellent but there is way too many people using this excuse. The problem does lie within the "fans", because not enough dvds are being bought. There are plenty of ways of knowing if you would enjoy a certain show, via streams, clips, AMVs, articles or even trailers. To fully watch a show illegally then say oh yeah that's great I'll buy it or worst case scenario oh noes it's bad I don't want it, is certainly not the correct decision making. You can't watch it for free that's the main focus.

It's the same way with our media like Hollywood movies. You either go to the theater or buy the dvds. Or even TV which validates in ratings. There is always revenue and profit. You just can't download something illegally. That is the main problem too many people try to justify when there is no way around to even actually justifying it.

It wasn't the fans, just the consumers and people who don't want to give a good pitch to sell. The truth is alot of opportunities wasn't given to the audience. All you care about is pleasing those suits, remember AS paid Sunrise to make another second season Big-O. Japan never like Big-O but America did. The problem was they couldn't get into primetime and ratings were a factor. Now AS is on 9:00pm-6:00am, pretty harsh isn't it.

Agreed. And whatever happened to appreciating art? And frankly if they don't make something worthwhile, they don't deserve my money.

luffypirate85 wrote:

Stop shopping at Best Buy Laughing

Take it from someone who just went into a BB recently, you won't miss much if you do anyway. The anime section is painfully small. Sad

Oh and the only thing even close to what Altare posted about was the Tsubasa OVA. Everything else on the shelves were box sets 12/13 or more episode at far less than $10 an episode.

luffypirate85 wrote:

And yeah, I know what I'm talking about. If you think $10 an episode is the norm in the R1 market then you obviously don't.

Perhaps the poster is buying a lot of hentai? That's about the only thing still coming out regularly on 2-3 episode a disc singles. (Or maybe MB singles? Those are 4 episodes each though at far less than $30.)

Richard J. wrote:

luffypirate85 wrote:

Stop shopping at Best Buy Laughing

Take it from someone who just went into a BB recently, you won't miss much if you do anyway. The anime section is painfully small. Sad

Oh and the only thing even close to what Altare posted about was the Tsubasa OVA. Everything else on the shelves were box sets 12/13 or more episode at far less than $10 an episode.

luffypirate85 wrote:

And yeah, I know what I'm talking about. If you think $10 an episode is the norm in the R1 market then you obviously don't.

Perhaps the poster is buying a lot of hentai? That's about the only thing still coming out regularly on 2-3 episode a disc singles. (Or maybe MB singles? Those are 4 episodes each though at far less than $30.)

I was exaggerating, but full seasons are harder to come by for me. Most anime sections in movie aisles/store have mostly volumes that are too expensive for what little you get.

He's just being ignorant. I really hate excuses like that. "I don't buy anime because its expensive wah wah poor me!" Really bro?? It's as cheap as its ever been!! SAVE sets run you about .50 cents an episode.

If a series is 12/13 episodes, you can get the entire series in one set. If the series is 24/26, you can get it in 2 sets. If it's longer, you've likely got a long wait for anything like a complete set.

The range for 12/13 sets is $35-45 most places I've seen and not even double that, more like $50-65 for 24/26 sets. That's if they're priced high.

I don't know where you are shopping but the only brick and mortar store I've seen "volumes" in that weren't 12/13 or 24/26 episode sets is Movie Stop and they're only there because they're a used DVD/Blu-Ray store. (Which has a better selection than BB at this point, which is depressing.)

Perhaps you could give a few examples of series you're finding in stores that aren't, in your opinion, reasonably priced? Just tell us the number of episodes and the price, maybe the name of the store.

Altare wrote:

BlackJaded wrote:

BigSpoon wrote:

Altare wrote:

BlackJaded wrote:

Altare wrote:

I'm not condoning piracy, but the market for anime in america is terrible. The companies should be doing something about it. It's sad that the consumer is the one who has to fix it.

The only thing I'm worried about is how anime would be accepted in America television. Really I buy Funi DVD and sometimes buy Japanese DVD's. Fansubs are not the problem at all. The internet is still growing and TV maybe out in years soon.

This is so appalling to me because I thought everyone understood of what fansubs can do.

Most of my anime is fansubbed, but were it not for the fansubs, I wouldn't own most of the dvds I do now.

This is nothing but a cop out. You buy your dvds sure that's excellent but there is way too many people using this excuse. The problem does lie within the "fans", because not enough dvds are being bought. There are plenty of ways of knowing if you would enjoy a certain show, via streams, clips, AMVs, articles or even trailers. To fully watch a show illegally then say oh yeah that's great I'll buy it or worst case scenario oh noes it's bad I don't want it, is certainly not the correct decision making. You can't watch it for free that's the main focus.

It's the same way with our media like Hollywood movies. You either go to the theater or buy the dvds. Or even TV which validates in ratings. There is always revenue and profit. You just can't download something illegally. That is the main problem too many people try to justify when there is no way around to even actually justifying it.

It wasn't the fans, just the consumers and people who don't want to give a good pitch to sell. The truth is alot of opportunities wasn't given to the audience. All you care about is pleasing those suits, remember AS paid Sunrise to make another second season Big-O. Japan never like Big-O but America did. The problem was they couldn't get into primetime and ratings were a factor. Now AS is on 9:00pm-6:00am, pretty harsh isn't it.

Agreed. And whatever happened to appreciating art? And frankly if they don't make something worthwhile, they don't deserve my money.

It's called taste son. Creativity will never be broken the only way is to keep it alive is to send a product that everyone likes without no BS. It's going to happen and not because of this law in Japan. Everyone will cater to those people and uprising otaku. We all want substance and plot to shows. Sooner or later it may happen.

luffypirate85 wrote:

He's just being ignorant. I really hate excuses like that. "I don't buy anime because its expensive wah wah poor me!" Really bro?? It's as cheap as its ever been!! SAVE sets run you about .50 cents an episode.

Did you know we have Rightstuf and Amazon.com both are cheap and hardly to miss sites.

Altare wrote:

BigSpoon wrote:

Altare wrote:

BlackJaded wrote:

Altare wrote:

I'm not condoning piracy, but the market for anime in america is terrible. The companies should be doing something about it. It's sad that the consumer is the one who has to fix it.

The only thing I'm worried about is how anime would be accepted in America television. Really I buy Funi DVD and sometimes buy Japanese DVD's. Fansubs are not the problem at all. The internet is still growing and TV maybe out in years soon.

This is so appalling to me because I thought everyone understood of what fansubs can do.

Most of my anime is fansubbed, but were it not for the fansubs, I wouldn't own most of the dvds I do now.

This is nothing but a cop out. You buy your dvds sure that's excellent but there is way too many people using this excuse. The problem does lie within the "fans", because not enough dvds are being bought. There are plenty of ways of knowing if you would enjoy a certain show, via streams, clips, AMVs, articles or even trailers. To fully watch a show illegally then say oh yeah that's great I'll buy it or worst case scenario oh noes it's bad I don't want it, is certainly not the correct decision making. You can't watch it for free that's the main focus.

It's the same way with our media like Hollywood movies. You either go to the theater or buy the dvds. Or even TV which validates in ratings. There is always revenue and profit. You just can't download something illegally. That is the main problem too many people try to justify when there is no way around to even actually justifying it.

They should try marketing the dvds better. No one is going to take a chance on something that costs 30$ for about 3 episodes.

I'll repeat "There are plenty of ways of knowing if you would enjoy a certain show, via streams, clips, AMVs, articles or even trailers"

You can also rent anime if what I mentioned is still not enough. And the singles era is pretty much dead and most have said. The little amount of singles that are left are not even $30. They are about $15-20. There will be around 3 too for the whole series which would still cost no more than $50. Which is normal for a series unless it is on a SAVE label which is even cheaper, way cheaper.

While those videos do have a strong anti-fansub message, they don't really seem to be "demonizing" fansubs either, so I don't see why some people are mad.

Also, from a psychological point of view, the only people who would feel upset about demonizing fansubs are the ones who download fansubs, but feel guilty about it. As such, they get defensive when they are called out on it, Those who download fansubs, and enjoy it, will never feel upset about people calling them pirates, or scum, or anything else, because they do not feel guilty, so they view the ones calling them out as being stupid and irrational. That's just my POV.

DmonHiro wrote:

While those videos do have a strong anti-fansub message, they don't really seem to be "demonizing" fansubs either, so I don't see why some people are mad.

If I've learned anything by being on the Internet, it is that no matter how positive a position, no matter how popular, no matter how insanely obvious it is that agreement is not only right but proper, expected and beyond question, you will find someone who disagrees. Vehemently.

DmonHiro wrote:

Also, from a psychological point of view, the only people who would feel upset about demonizing fansubs are the ones who download fansubs, but feel guilty about it. As such, they get defensive when they are called out on it, Those who download fansubs, and enjoy it, will never feel upset about people calling them pirates, or scum, or anything else, because they do not feel guilty, so they view the ones calling them out as being stupid and irrational. That's just my POV.

That actually seems about right, except that people can feel guilty and still derive enjoyment. Plus there is a tendency in humanity to view anyone who holds an opposing viewpoint as being stupid and irrational, even if an objective analysis shows they're right.

Personally, I am against fansubs on a general basis. I'm willing to accept fansubs of shows that are never or are very unlikely to ever get licensed/legally translated/legally streamed/whatever. The problem is that the series getting the most downloads tend to be things like Naruto, Bleach and One Piece or shows that are practically pre-licensed.

Even when legal options are made available, there still tends to be a major portion of the fanbase that continues to consume their anime illegally. When hundreds of thousands are downloading or watching illegally, it's a bit difficult for the legal avenues to grow and become profitable. Which only makes it HARDER for more anime to get made.

The "I only buy the high quality anime" argument is bull too. The people who complain about the quality of anime nowadays are often still watching show after show after show illegally. Plus, the fact they aren't buying more is part of why they're not getting the shows that they want. Moe, fanservice and shonen tend to sell very well in Japan and they seem to do pretty damn good here too.

The high quality series seem to die. (Recent example: Monster.)

All of the problems in the industry can't be solved merely buy fans buying more anime but it tends to be easier to solve problems when you have lots of cash on hand. Experimenting with risky series concepts for instance is much more likely when there is plenty of cash flow.

I try not to demonize all fansub watchers. There are those who do it who buy what they can when they can and then there are the ones who flat-out promote never buying and actively campaign for companies here to fail while bragging about how large their brains are and how supreme their esoteric tastes are. There's plenty of room in-between.

And, in the interest of full-disclosure, I've watched fansubs before too. I just don't at all anymore because I ultimately A) felt guilty because I was depriving the Japanese owners of their right to decide the distribution methods of their own property and B) I don't prefer subs to begin with and if I'm going to watch that way, I want to do it in a way that supports the companies that make English dubs for me.

I'm fully in support of fans trying to help correct one of the problems the industry is facing. If the movement gets large enough, who knows what it could accomplish? (Heck, look at the Tiger Man charity phenomena!)

Okay, I need some sleep my friends. Bye-ni!

I've been to one of Greg Ayres' panels, and while they do get a bit preachy and unrealistic at times, and a couple really loud people attending the panel enjoyed their time up on their soapbox, there are some good points made in them. It's certainly worth sitting in on if you get a chance, or watching the video if they get posted up.

I think there's a lot of gray area regarding how anime fans go about sorting thru the available anime if it leads to some kind of patronage.

The thing I want to see go away are the 'fans' who just have no interest in giving anything back. The 'yeah, I took your stuff, suck it.' people. Make your excuses and brag all you want. If you never feel that someone deserves something for their effort(be it making the product or running a business that participates in the distribution) then you are a parasite with no opinion of any value. I wish people of that opinion would just get shunned. Mega-frickin-shunned.

This is awesome, its definitly something I'm going to get behind. I've always been a big supporter of not downloading fansubs. Although I can't say I'm 100% clean though. I used to download One Piece back when 4kids had it but as soon as Funi announced they had one piece I stopped. Also I have been thinking about downloading case closed since funi stopped but I still can't being my self to do it.

I think education needs to be a big part of stopping the download of fansubs. We need to teach the younger fans that money is what makes anime. I say younger fans because people like me who grew up in the 90's didn't have the ability to watch tv on the internet like we do today. So we were used to having to get anime or any tv show the correct way. I know that won't work on everybody but make a good chunk of fans will stop if they know the ethic behind downloading. Also I like what itunes is doing and letting you down load the first episode free. Thats a great way to let someone sample the series instead of using the argument "Why should I buy something if I don't know I'll like it" which I find a weak argument anyway. Also just buying some anime off of itunes in general should be promoted and anybody who says they don't want to spend 99 cents to buy an episode they may not like is a freaken idiot. And anyone who says they can't afford 99 cents I find very doubtful.

Why would anyone want to buy DVD's when half the shows these days are broadcast in HD?

Meh, better off giving money to crunchyroll than supporting the rest of the industry peddling lower quality merchandise.

or you can buy the Blu-ray, Funimation's blu-rays are ridiculously inexpensive, part 3 of FMA Brotherhood is selling for 30.00.

Forum - View topic
INTEREST: Fans Launch 'Keep Anime Alive' Pro-Industry Site

Taste Naruto's Ichiraku Ramen in Real Life in Silverlake Ramen Campaign

New Spice & Wolf Anime's English Dub Features Returning Cast From Previous Series

Gundam SEED FREEDOM's Rie Tanaka, Sōichiro Hoshi Share Memories at Los Angeles Premiere

Kurayukaba and Kuramerukagari Anime Movies Review

The Spring 2024 Anime Preview Guide

This Week in Games - Ask Yourself, "What Would Shadow Do?"

Forum - View topicINTEREST: Fans Launch 'Keep Anime Alive' Pro-Industry Site

Forum

Forum - View topic
INTEREST: Fans Launch 'Keep Anime Alive' Pro-Industry Site