Forum - View topicShelf Life - The Departed
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Chrno2
 Posts: 6171 Location: USA |
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This discussion on Birdy Decode reminds me of what I found while watching the animated sequences frame by frame of the TV airing of 'Witchblade' (NOT the DVD versions, because those are re-edited and cleaned up, but not every quirky frame). Those darn "in-betweeners".
It is interesting to look at.
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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I realize what you're saying, but still, you can only do so much with lacking frames. Besides I'm only criticizing certain segments in the later parts that are obviously problematic or at least inconsistent, not for the entire show. Timing is fine. Choreography is fine. Perspective, is deformed for the characters during these problematic sequences but ok for others even in the same scenes (e.g. mecha, building, objects). Shapes are not, again during these scenes. And yes, even if we're comparing apples and oranges, we can say that Family Guy actually does have great animation from a technical perspective, However theirs is a much simpler job, and knowing a bit about the software used, made even more simpler. But we don't need to look at Family Guy, though other action anime make better comparisons with comparable levels of complexity (which was why I mentioned Naruto)--we can just look within Birdy 1,2 itself really to make the quality comparisons.
ok.. I'll take your word for it then. I presumed that since it's almost always the case--either budget or schedule--when the results are like this, particularly when it seems like it only occurs during certain scenes. Sometimes they are fixed or changed later for DVD and sometimes not, though stuff like this wouldn't fall under minor changes and whether or not to proceed with such changes would also be part of the budget. For example, Shigofumi was changed: http://www.milky.ne.jp/~layx/cgi-bin/sb/img/img427_080604a.jpg As far as the animators go, I realize there are those who work at multiple studios, though I don't keep track. However I'm not sure if that really matters since all we can judge are the final results. There are many people working in parallel even within the same episode. It's hard to know who exactly, worked on what i.e. Shippuden ep 133 in that last youtube clip, what direction they were given, what tasks in the other clips, or if they received different animation direction who of the same worked on what parts on Birdy, if at all.
Well I hardly visit AoD but I guess that would be my point too. However, it isn't a change from one episode to the next -- it's from one moment to the next like I show above, in these certain segments only. It's simply an issue of (in)consistency and effectively lower quality animation. |
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Tenebrae
Posts: 486 |
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Birdy Decode 2 has good animation? I guess they made a major overhaul then over the original TV airing. It was absolutely horrible, and I mean on "my first stick figure" level horrible. I was obvious that they had ran out of whatever shoestring budget they were operating on and had to outsource keyframing to some third-tier Korean sweatshop.
Perhaps it would have been wiser to do what Shaft did with Bakemonogatari and blank out the scene, apologise, and promise to deliver it on DVD release. What they did here was a complete travesty. |
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wandering-dreamer
 Posts: 1733 |
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I've seen comparison screenshots for the flashback episode in Birdy (tv airing vs DVD) and they did clean up a lot of it but the art still looks rather simple and off model when compared to the rest of the series. For me, usually I don't like it when the art style switches like that for a fight scene but I really did like the fight scenes in Birdy and the off-modelness was as apparent to me until I looked at some screen shots. I loved the last fight and plan on getting the DVD set sometime, I'll just warn friend who borrow it that they have to sacrifice detail for animation. |
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Joe Mello
 Posts: 2260 Location: Online Terminal |
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II saw Muscle Musical in Vegas. It's rather simplistic, but quite enjoyable, especially when every other similar act in Vegas is prefixed by "Cirque du Soleil."
If I want to watch gymnasts and acrobats, I'll watch gymnasts and acrobats. None of this highbrow crap. |
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redranger
 Posts: 271 |
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Yeah...I definitely wouldn't describe vegeta as smart by any stretch. More like complete tool. |
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braves
 Posts: 2309 Location: Puerto Rico (but living in Texas) |
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Lacking frames in comparison to what? Is there a set number of frames per second that animators have to use in order to be acceptable? I mean, I could say the opposite as well. There's only so much you can with "smooth" animation that you have to experiment with the entire spectrum (and no, I'm not promoting an entire episode of animation set to one frame per second or something ridiculous like that).
Knowing who did what is important in order to make comparisons to their previous work and get a better understanding of what their approach to animation is. You can see Shingo Yamashita's "jumpy", so to speak, approach to timing across his entire body of work. You can also make comparisons to the level of detail and how he's changed his approach to drawings facial features (compare his work in Baccano! to his recent episode in Shippuden). Knowing who did what is also the way you deduce what kind of direction the animation director gives. To continue with the Naruto comparison, Hirofumi Suzuki's episodes are slow and you can see he's a bit more involved in correcting drawings. Atsushi Wakabayashi seems to correct very few of the drawings that he gets from his animators and he ignores any kind of "established" drawings from the series that came before him. He's more involved on the choreography of things. Gorou Sessha likes to have add in additional speed lines and to blur up the characters when in motion, which is derived from his own animation. As another poster noted, Ryo-timo (co-AD on 7 & 12 of Birdy Season 2) had already been doing this kind of work since Noein. He got into the business by posting gifs on his website and those particular episodes are another iteration of that style. You can tell who worked on what by number of ways. Interviews, official blog postings, the internet in general, comparing credits. For Birdy, here are some animatics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f99W4GPHnNQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM17EQOM5E0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3SZZLeD8MQ
IDK. I can understand the dislike of the style to a certain since I have my own issues with gif animators (I take it on a case by case basis). Draftsmanship seems to be lacking in a number of cases, but just the idea of different styles in one episode doesn't bother me at all and is actually a big part of the reason I enjoy anime as much as I do. Accepting drastic changes in style like that also depends on the subject matter. I wouldn't want to have the Kanada style in the middle of Sky Crawlers, as much I as enjoy both. But it's acceptable for Birdy given who the character designer was in the first place and the similar approach Akane took in Noein, another sci-fi show. TV seems to be the best way to have a bit of experimentation, otherwise we get stuck in the same place animation-wise. I'm just glad that they placed that kind of experimentation on a show like Birdy instead of a show where the rest of the content was uninteresting. I understood that Akane did fix things up for the DVD (you posted the corrected version). Comparison shots |
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Player No. 3
 Posts: 209 Location: San Antonio, Texas |
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I agree completely. I think this is why I thought the first season was good, but the second season great. Tsutomu was never that interesting of a character for me, so the immediate switch to Birdy as the focus held my attention must better. Argh. I really can't wait to get my hands on both seasons. I'm particularly excited for the dub since I watched it completely subbed on Funi's site. |
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shamisen the great
 Posts: 658 Location: Oregon, USA |
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Any hotness Vegeta had got thrown away when grew that mustache at the start of GT.
I bought Birdy based on your recommendation,Erin. Glad to hear the last half continues to be good. Looking forward to watching it. |
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ThePoliced
Posts: 130 |
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As a fan of the original Birdy the Mighty(OVA), I must say that the new shows are ..mm..mm well, really fudging bad. Tsutomu and some gay ass random girl? Not cool and he was freaking older in the ovas, making it more uh.. beleiveable i guess. Birdy and some gay childhood friend? Please, tht cliche is also garbage.
Birdy was kickass and a had a cool sense of humor back then, now she's dull and boring. |
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Player No. 3
Posts: 209 Location: San Antonio, Texas |
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Woah. I completely missed that subtext. 
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TeenChibi
Posts: 60 |
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But wasn't the animation for Birdy the Mighty: Decode 02 revised for the DVD release?
http://img2.sankakustatic.com/wp-content/gallery/misc-images-xxiii/tetsuwan-birdy-dvd-revision.jpg Unless FUNi used the TV broadcast version for the DVD release, I don't see any problem with the animation. Birdy to me has some of the best action scenes I've ever seen with extremely fluent animation. Still as one of the best animated anime in my book. |
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Smart people do stupid things all the time. Doesn't make them stupid overall, does it? He was over-confident in his own skills. We see this all the time. Not like Goku & ChiChi who are portrayed throughout the anime as having more of a country bumpkin speech pattern. Goku's intelligence was increased in Funi's dub. He's also henpecked. He offered Bulma up to Old Kai because ChiChi would kill him as I recall. Was it nude pix of Bulma? I forget now. I still say Vegeta smashed that stupid earring because he hated all the fuzz in the brain while merged with Goku & Goku was upset because it was the first time he could actually connect the dots.
I have the old Birdy the Mighty released by CPM as part of a Kawajiri brick pack. It's based on a manga from the 1980's & was made into an OVA in 1996 by Kawajiri. Birdy's VA was Kotono Mitsuishi (Sailor Moon). |
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bglassbrook
 Posts: 1243 Location: Gaithersburg, MD |
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In retrospect, I think they actually spent more time (relatively speaking) on the androids' frolic in the manga than the original series.
Yes, but this was explained during the Freiza arc. Surpassing the Saiyan boundries meant that bloodlust > IQ.
So, he has a checklist, but with more boxes than usual?
Jean-Claude van Damme lied to us in Timecop? *gasp* What is this world coming to? Though the multi-timepod is rather well explained. Sadly the explanation is kinda disappointing, in that all realities are only in a chain (forward 40 to to C or back 40 to A, but go forward/back 10 and end up in D/E) with no impact on the others. Ho-hum, but I guess it follows the heroic ethic of doing good even if you will receive little or no benefit yourself. |
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