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Brian wrote:

It's because of spam

Funny name for booze that. Wink

And to that poor 13 year old from the UK; we have two.

http://www.animeuknews.net/index.php

http://www.neomag.co.uk/

Razz

Last edited by mayo160 on Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

hmm, mr. brian's first reply really puts both sides of the argument in something of a nutshell..... the public has been spoiled by napster in particular and rampant consumeristic greed in general into thinking that anime should be at least as free as the water fountain's water in mcdonald's, and the anime industry really does need the money, to state the obvious.

many here have given decent opinions, far too many to quote.

i'm from one of those parts of the world brian finds so inconveniently convenient to use in pirates' excuses; all my life has been lived either in india or (presently) bangladesh. even viewing a 3-minute music video in peace (or even pieces) is not an option 90% off the time, and the remaining 10% requires supernatural intervention, access to an industrial-strength connection, favourable surfing patterns of the rest of the country, or usually of all of the above. the entire nation has only 1 submarine cable. for damnation, sometimes it gets too slow even for manga viewing!

so, neither buying the dvds nor watching any streaming is an option for me, thanks very much. and my slave-labour renumeration is about $160 per month, so i'd best forget about getting cousin to buy some boxsets for me next time he comes over from stateside for vacations... and by the time i have enough monney, if ever, i'll probably be too bloody old to care.

this grief has been with me, acutely so, all my life when it comes to my first love, heavy metal. every single cd i happen to own represents blood, sweat and (much) tears. needless to say, the intenet has given me nearly-free music shitloads beyond my wildest dreams.
but the very fact that i own quite a few original albums implies that given the chance and money (or decent prices, more on that later), i'd take the original over the pirated any day, except for maybe the stuff i need to only check out (think of it as selective radio or the first cocaine snort the dealer gives free). turns out, music actually was way overpriced and the ostrich-headed labels still refuse to see it; itunes still charges steeply, and soon bandcamp and topspin will be the only way to go (probably). nin still makes money, as does dmb, nickelback and all those acts with dedicated concertgoing followings......

but while a freely-taken song can still be an ad/magnet to go to live shows and merchandise - the internet is why iron maiden got 37000, and not 3700, to their first india gig, anime here is essentially a one-trick pony: see it and you're done for quite a while.

the key is perhaps to sell lots of cheap copies instead of 1-2 expensive ones, crunchyroll is actually the way to go, it's an anime spotify.... and funimation only wants a few ads to be seen, for crying out loud! oh, but the quality-control depts really do need to get their acts together. people will pay for quality, but their expectations are higher than they used to be.
and they need to move products fast.... weeds, heroes, prison break etc haven't suffered all that much, have they? (i actually don't know for sure Embarassed

)

but it needs to wait on us third-world types for now.
kaspersky and norton have caught on to an idea here: 1-pc internet security 1-year for $15, 100% genuine, hot cakes. bangladesh and similar nations only, the yankee fat cats can keep on paying more. but the product and its quality remain the same. maybe they could let only certain countries (or those below a certain bandwidth) get an official torrent while the others get a high-quality stream with 1 or 2 ads, but that seems a bit orwellian to me.

bottom line, torrents will stay for a while, and if some american doesn't fansub, somebody on one of the few high-bandwidth lines in asia will rip them a new one (doublespeak intended) for the betterment of his more-unfortunate otaku brothers, if nothing else.

the production houses need to clearly state/advertize (maybe start giving uber-sponsored shiny search engine results) that there are officially free versions available, unlike for music - which is partly why my sympathy for piratical whinings is limited even though i depend on them for bleach - to upgrade the quality of said free versions and to start making ultra hq boxsets stuffed with goodies like free caps and toys and worry about potentially decrased profit margins after at least a few years.

now it hits me why i agreed with the term "dick move": why didn't the 1337 get official legal notices to go watch the (free) stream first before the filing of legal suit? or did they?

Furudanuki wrote:

vashfanatic wrote:

Still, like I said, they doa great job translating, and I'd rather have to squint once in a while then put up with CR's insistence on leaving "baka" untranslated in Level E. Wtf is up with that?

Because the character's name is Baka Ki El Dogra (バカ＝キ＝エル・ドグラ - Baka Ki Eru Dogura / Baka Ki El Dogra). It's a pun, of course, but it is perfectly correct to refer to him as Prince Baka (バカ王子 - Baka-ouji). Wink

But that pun only works if you know the meaning of "baka," and you shouldn't expect your audience to understand Japanese! It's like their decision to leave masou-shoujo untranslated on the assumption that everyone in their viewing audience would get that it was a pun on mahou-shoujo ("magical girl"). You either need to leave a note in the subtitles (awkward) or render his name into something like Prince Idjit El Dogra so that the pun works in English. That's how translating works.

vashfanatic wrote:

But that pun only works if you know the meaning of "baka," and you shouldn't expect your audience to understand Japanese!

Baka would have to be right up there with arigato and my home state (ohio) in terms of people who know only five or ten words of Japanese from listening to subtitled anime knowing that word.

And its only a pun ~ the people that get it, get it, the people that don't get it, don't really lose anything in terms of plot or character development.

mayo160 wrote:

... the key is perhaps to sell lots of cheap copies instead of 1-2 expensive ones, crunchyroll is actually the way to go, it's an anime spotify ....

but it needs to wait on us third-world types for now.
kaspersky and norton have caught on to an idea here: 1-pc internet security 1-year for $15, 100% genuine, hot cakes. bangladesh and similar nations only, the yankee fat cats can keep on paying more. but the product and its quality remain the same. maybe they could let only certain countries (or those below a certain bandwidth) get an official torrent while the others get a high-quality stream with 1 or 2 ads, but that seems a bit orwellian to me.

Actually, the "official torrent" is not orwellian at all. You'd get one of the global brands ~ like Coca cola ~ to sponsor the torrent, the ads are embedded with the content (animated watermarks, and shrinking the display for ad content below during OP and ED) and the sponsor does agree to pay some small fraction of a cent royalty to the rights owner per tracked torrent download. Use the same region blocking filters already in place to determine who can get access to the torrent, and throttle down the seeding to a fairly low pace to ensure that, one, only bandwidth-starved viewers will bother, two, the torrent users can't set their download to leech only and get good download rates and, three, it will impose negligible bandwidth cost on Crunchyroll.

Torrent subscribers could pay $15/yr (given the embedded advertising they'd have to pay much less, but it still would support royalty rates from torrent downloads that are high enough to entice the Japanese content owners) and the free torrent is the same time as the ad-streams are released. Obviously there will be lots of spillage, but there will be at least some revenue generated from markets where its hard to monetize under a model where the streaming site covers all bandwidth costs.

The sponsor, of course, won't mind the spillage if the advertising is embedded in a way that cannot easily stripped out.

Where it comes undone, of course, is that the Japanese content owners will insist that there be a system put in place to ensure there is no spillage, even though Japanese piracy will obviously prefer material pirated from broadcast, internet and cable in Japan to this torrent download material with embedded advertising by the global brand.

vashfanatic wrote:

Furudanuki wrote:

vashfanatic wrote:

Still, like I said, they doa great job translating, and I'd rather have to squint once in a while then put up with CR's insistence on leaving "baka" untranslated in Level E. Wtf is up with that?

Because the character's name is Baka Ki El Dogra (バカ＝キ＝エル・ドグラ - Baka Ki Eru Dogura / Baka Ki El Dogra). It's a pun, of course, but it is perfectly correct to refer to him as Prince Baka (バカ王子 - Baka-ouji). Wink

But that pun only works if you know the meaning of "baka," and you shouldn't expect your audience to understand Japanese! It's like their decision to leave masou-shoujo untranslated on the assumption that everyone in their viewing audience would get that it was a pun on mahou-shoujo ("magical girl"). You either need to leave a note in the subtitles (awkward) or render his name into something like Prince Idjit El Dogra so that the pun works in English. That's how translating works.

OK, I've done a quick scan through the episodes and I've yet to find an occasion in the subtitles where the word "baka" is left untranslated except in those instances where a character is specifically referring to the Prince by name. Here are a few examples from where the word "baka" is used in the original dialogue:

Quote:

Captain Kraft: "That Baka!"
Yukitaka: "As if, idiot."
Captain Kraft: "You're just copying what that Baka said, aren't you?"
Yukitaka: "Don't come near me, idiot!"
Miho: "You think it's that Prince Baka?"

Note that in each of these examples the word "Baka" is capitalized - indicating that it is a proper noun - and as a general rule translators do not translate character's names without an extremely compelling reason to do so. And, in my opinion, changing a major character's name so that a minor pun "works in English" does not qualify as a compelling reason.

*throws up her hands*

Look, the instances you pointed out where they left it as Baka are preceded with "that." Which makes "Baka" sound like a noun, not a name. Nor would it have been difficult at any number of places to explain the confusion in the dialogue and oh my God I do not care, why am I having an argument about translation on the internet when it totally doesn't matter? Crunchyroll does plenty of other stupid moves, maybe I should've used "masou-shoujo" as an example of their periodic extreme laziness. My point still stands that I far, far prefer Funimation's translation work. Now I am tired and dropping it.

vashfanatic wrote:

... Crunchyroll does plenty of other stupid moves, ...

All of these examples are far more likely to be a decision by the translator that Crunchyroll hired than a decision by Crunchyroll that was imposed on the translator. If you think its a bad translation, wouldn't giving that feedback at the link provided be more likely to have results than complaining about it in an ANN forum?

Or to the translator directly on twitter or at mania.com?

So it's a "dick move" to protect your investment from people who actively seek to damage it when asking nicely doesn't cut it?

Should I not arrest shoplifters because, hey, they may have bought something in the past and might buy something in the future and I wouldn't want to upset them?

Yeah. That's not going to work for me.

This is more about the scanlation side of the anime manga industry.

Have you read official english Ikkitousen?

Have you read the scanlated Ikkitousen?

They were apples and oranges.

Did you read Tenjou tenges censored manga?

I can see why stealing the simulcast is a dick move, but I don't like how you say that we're just being picky about attack names.

Sometimes things get censored or completely rewritten in the american version and you have to get the scanlation/sub to see it the way it's meant to.

I have an anime network subscription and I think they censored some of the kill scenes.

I'm sorry if I you think we should support censored works or outright Macekres.

Mangafan1 wrote:

Did you read Tenjou tenges censored manga?

It's coming out uncensored soon so we won't have to worry about that anymore.

Mangafan1 wrote:

Sometimes things get censored or completely rewritten in the american version and you have to get the scanlation/sub to see it the way it's meant to.

That's is not done too much anymore at least with manga and anime.

Mangafan1 wrote:

I have an anime network subscription and I think they censored some of the kill scenes.

I'm sorry if I you think we should support censored works or outright Macekres.

Some of the stuff is censored from Japan broadcasts so there is nothing TAN can do about that.

I think it's ridiculous that TAN isn't given an uncensored version.

How the crap do you have a zombie anime where kills are blacked out.

Imagine a romero movie trying to pull that ****.

TT is really coming to the US uncensored?

Or is it another "This is the TT version 3/4/whatever deluxe now with 30% less censoring but we still cut x x x x x and x"

I think the time they decided to redo the TT translation they heard from the fans, "We hate the censoring," the "Ok we acknowledge that you hate the way we censored it...so we're going to censor it THIS way," was dickish.

Mangafan1 wrote:

TT is really coming to the US uncensored?

Here is the news article about it:

animenewsnetwork.com/news/2010-11-15/viz-adds-tenjo-tenge-school-fighting-manga

Thank ****ing god for an unedited version.

If they released with just slightly less edits than the CMX version it'd be like hearing about a company localizing the new berserk series...then finding the localizer is 4kids.

Or a 4kids black lagoon where Rock and Revy share a lollipop -_-

Gina Szanboti wrote:

License rescues I'd like to see are mainly all the series VIZ has relegated to limbo, like Monster and Hikaru no Go. Sad

Very much agreed. I also would love a better release of Sailor Moon plus Sailorstars, like everyone else.

My obscure wish would be for the Gokinjo Monogatari anime to get a release here, but I know that's just a pipe dream.

Oh yeah, I'd also love DVDs of the first Pretty Cure series.

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