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Tanteikingdomkey wrote:

I have already provided some evidence that shows that people are posting that they feel the bird is trolling them

and have shown that people feel that tamako market is responsible for them not getting the shows that they want .
I have also repeatedly said that it is impossible for me to pull sources in japanese and that english/ pictorial equivalents should be close. enough

You have shown evidence of some members from the international fandom being annoyed with the bird; not the Japanese fandom. You made a comment saying that the fandom is annoyed with the bird and that is the cause of the lack of pre-orders, yet you provided no evidence that the Japanese fandom (who are the ones pre-ordering the show on Amazon Japan) are annoyed with the bird. You admit that you cannot provide a source showing this statement from the Japanese fandom, so this means your comment is suspect until you provide some proof of that statement from the people who are pre-ordering the show. If it were the western fandom who the numbers come from, then you would have a point, but two different fandoms.

On-topic, looking at the Oricon numbers for the past two weeks shows an interesting disrepency. Kadokawa claims sales for week 1 doubled the previous number (Oricon showed around 7k, and 3.5k never ranks) and week 2 sales quadrupled that week 0 number (Oricon showed 6k sales). I'm more inclined to believe the publisher who's bragging about numbers than an estimate from 1,400 bookstores.

ultimatemegax wrote:

Tanteikingdomkey wrote:

I have already provided some evidence that shows that people are posting that they feel the bird is trolling them

and have shown that people feel that tamako market is responsible for them not getting the shows that they want .
I have also repeatedly said that it is impossible for me to pull sources in japanese and that english/ pictorial equivalents should be close. enough

You have shown evidence of some members from the international fandom being annoyed with the bird; not the Japanese fandom. You made a comment saying that the fandom is annoyed with the bird and that is the cause of the lack of pre-orders, yet you provided no evidence that the Japanese fandom (who are the ones pre-ordering the show on Amazon Japan) are annoyed with the bird. You admit that you cannot provide a source showing this statement from the Japanese fandom, so this means your comment is suspect until you provide some proof of that statement from the people who are pre-ordering the show. If it were the western fandom who the numbers come from, then you would have a point, but two different fandoms.

If I have to show evidence that the bird annoying to fans then you have to show some evidence that japanese fans react differently to him then US or international fans. there is no reason to assume that dera is not universally annoying to people and saying that he annoys no japanese fans just because I can not specify that japanese fans dislike him, is a clear violation of basic logic and the devils proof.

No, the onus of proof is on YOU since you made a positive statement.

Chagen46 wrote:

No, the onus of proof is on YOU since you made a positive statement.

What's the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all? If there's no way to disprove my contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it, what does it mean to say that my dragon exists? Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it true.

Tanteikingdomkey wrote:

GrayArchon wrote:

Tanteikingdomkey wrote:

I never said the backlash was big just that it exist. if you guys feel so strongly it does not exist how about you actually produce some evidence that it doesn't exist. (which you probably can't since it's a devils proof)

You are the one making the initial claim that a backlash among the Japanese fans exists. Therefore when this backlash is questioned, the burden of proof is on you to prove it exists. It is not on us to prove that it doesn't exist.

Yes I don't pick on sarcasm that well at all, it's medical k.

I have already provided some evidence that shows that people are posting that they feel the bird is trolling them

and have shown that people feel that tamako market is responsible for them not getting the shows that they want .
I have also repeatedly said that it is impossible for me to pull sources in japanese and that english/ pictorial equivalents should be close. enough

You've provided some evidence that some members of the international english speaking fanbase feel the bird is trolling them, and shown that some members of the international english speaking fanbase feel that Tamako Market is responsible for them not getting shows they want. Those are entirely irrelevant in discussing Japanese pre-orders. Not being able to pull any Japanese sources just proves that you have no evidence, and are making baseless claims. You can't say "english/ pictorial equivalents should be close. enough" specifically because there's no evidence that they are equivalent to anything.

Tanteikingdomkey wrote:

If I have to show evidence that the bird annoying to fans then you have to show some evidence that japanese fans react differently to him then US or international fans. there is no reason to assume that dera is not universally annoying to people and saying that he annoys no japanese fans just because I can not specify that japanese fans dislike him, is a clear violation of basic logic and the devils proof.

To the contrary, there is no reason to assume fans in different countries react the same way to the bird, or anything else. It would hardly be the first time that the Japanese liked something that other parts of the world did not. We do not have to prove that that's the case this time, as you are the one setting forum that claim that that isn't the case.
So again, you are the one setting forth the claim therefore the burden of proof is on you. It is not up to us to prove what you say wrong, it is up to you to prove what you say correct.

Tanteikingdomkey wrote:

there is no reason to assume that dera is not universally annoying to people and saying that he annoys no japanese fans just because I can not specify that japanese fans dislike him, is a clear violation of basic logic and the devils proof.

No one said no Japanese fan finds the bird annoying because that would be a stupid claim. What was said is you can't use comments on /a/ to determine what Japanese fans are saying because those are English-speaking fans posting. Your "evidence" is thus irrelevant to your claim.

Also, you made the claim. You back it up. That's how burden of proof works. Otherwise, it comes across as if you're just making shit up based on gut feeling.

Draneor wrote:

Tanteikingdomkey wrote:

there is no reason to assume that dera is not universally annoying to people and saying that he annoys no japanese fans just because I can not specify that japanese fans dislike him, is a clear violation of basic logic and the devils proof.

No one said no Japanese fan finds the bird annoying because that would be a stupid claim. What was said is you can't use comments on /a/ to determine what Japanese fans are saying because those are English-speaking fans posting. Your "evidence" is thus irrelevant to your claim.

Also, you made the claim. You back it up. That's how burden of proof works. Otherwise, it comes across as if you're just making shit up based on gut feeling.

now that it's been established that some japanese fans of some amount are annoyed by him, we can take the logical next step that some of them might be upset at KyoAni over him and tamako market in general and that some of those are currently engaging in a backlash against KyoAni

what does this mean exactly what it says I never tied it to disc sales or made some impact to the backlash argument, that was ryanstome and ryanstome only who had that claim if you want some argument about how the backlash affects disc sales talk to him I never made an argument of the sort,
All I argued with F---dude about was does it exist and why. and I still maintain that people are still upset about them turning down little busters, not doing more kon or haruhi, the bird, and it being KyoAni original.

now that we all agree that it is very highly likely that a backlash (of some size) exist I'm done

P.S. the devils proof just keeps people from saying that something is 0% probable obviously the percentage it grants varies based on what it is you apply it to.

Tanteikingdomkey wrote:

kyonayi

You know what?

Until you demonstrate that you can spell "KyoAni" properly, and preferably also start using proper spelling, capitalization and grammar in general, I don't think I'm going to grant you anything.

Fencedude5609 wrote:

Tanteikingdomkey wrote:

kyonayi

You know what?

Until you demonstrate that you can spell "KyoAni" properly, and preferably also start using proper spelling, capitalization and grammar in general, I don't think I'm going to grant you anything.

fair I am sorry for messing up KyoAni

I'd like to point out that a lot of members of the English fandom thought K-On! was an abomination, yet it sold 40k. (Which makes "some people think this is responsible for us not getting K-On! season 3" seem particularly silly). A lot of us think SAO is a horrid piece of trash, yet its one of the best selling shows of last year. Opinions are split on most things, so the fact that some people feel some way, particularly those that aren't (for the most part) even part of the market being discussed is not proof of anything.

Some shows sell better than others, often times shows that get very positive reviews (over here, at least) don't sell well at all. Some don't sell well at all for no apparent reason. Some are simply going to be a victim of limited otaku dollars and other shows being liked more. I'd like to import Tamako Market but I can't afford to import 5 shows.

Another KyoAni show failed to sell, apparently not from any backlash but simply because it didn't catch on (that would be Nichijou). Not everything KyoAni touches is going to be gold, and this show lacks the advantage of any built in fanbase that adaptations might bring, plus it had relatively little marketing (compared to Chu2koi, for example) so no one really knew what it even was.

There are logical reasons why this show isn't lighting the sales charts on fire, so you cannot say "there's a backlash because some people in the West don't like one aspect of it, its up to you to prove me wrong!". You make an assertion, you need to prove it, and you have failed to do so.

Again I do not speculate how big the backlash is and do not at all say that it affects sales. also everyone agrees that the bird is atleast to some extent highly annoying and is enough to create a backlash.

Tanteikingdomkey wrote:

now that it's been established that some japanese fans of some amount are annoyed by him, we can take the logical next step that some of them might be upset at KyoAni over him and tamako market in general and that some of those are currently engaging in a backlash against KyoAni

So you really don't care at all whether it's like just one guy or x% of Japanese anime fans? As long as there's one person, you believe you proved your point? I don't really know how to respond to that.

Tanteikingdomkey wrote:

also everyone agrees that the bird is atleast to some extent highly annoying and is enough to create a backlash.

No, I don't agree. I love the bird--I think he's an integral part of why I am enjoying Tamako Market. Some people may find him annoying but, well, I don't. And we have absolutely no data on how many people find him annoying--especially in Japan.

really like this anime! wow what is the whole list please?

where did you find it?

Draneor wrote:

Tanteikingdomkey wrote:

now that it's been established that some japanese fans of some amount are annoyed by him, we can take the logical next step that some of them might be upset at KyoAni over him and tamako market in general and that some of those are currently engaging in a backlash against KyoAni

So you really don't care at all whether it's like just one guy or x% of Japanese anime fans? As long as there's one person, you believe you proved your point? I don't really know how to respond to that.

Tanteikingdomkey wrote:

also everyone agrees that the bird is atleast to some extent highly annoying and is enough to create a backlash.

No, I don't agree. I love the bird--I think he's an integral part of why I am enjoying Tamako Market. Some people may find him annoying but, well, I don't. And we have absolutely no data on how many people find him annoying--especially in Japan.

I love dera as well and agree with you that he is great. but some people really hate him and compare him to kubey from madoka. and lets be honest a their is no case where all japanese fans disagree with a somewhat significant portion of american fans. and as long as some disagree their can be a backlash, even if it was only one person (which is not a realistic possibility). since the question is does it exist not does it matter, (that is why I didn't connect it to an impact).

HitokiriShadow wrote:

Not everything KyoAni touches is going to be gold

That's another thing I'm not getting, this idea that Little Busters would've been any better or worse, just because KyoAni worked on it.

Honestly, if there was any measurable number of people who hate Tamako Market because it's not Little Busters by KyoAni, there's absolutely no helping them.

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