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Tenbyakugon



Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 666
Location: Michigan, United States
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:19 pm Reply with quote
I'm preferring to take the approach of a Scantron test sheet or the U.S. Census Bureau. I'm looking at this more from a racial standpoint than an ethnic one; I'd rather there be a condensed amount of options than there be so many.

Though I'd prefer they didn't, if a multiracial individual were to choose Other for their being multiracial I wouldn't have any objections to it.
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nobahn
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:28 pm Reply with quote
Tenbyakugon--
Are you actually asking for a subscriber to initiate this proposed poll?
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Tenbyakugon



Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 666
Location: Michigan, United States
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:35 pm Reply with quote
Mm. I will say that I've no objections to the including of a multiracial option, however it could undermine the integrity of the poll.
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4620
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:22 pm Reply with quote
Tenbyakugon wrote:
I'm preferring to take the approach of a Scantron test sheet or the U.S. Census Bureau. I'm looking at this more from a racial standpoint than an ethnic one; I'd rather there be a condensed amount of options than there be so many.
Except even then you're talking meaningless gibberish. Asia is home to the Turks, the Semites(Arabs, Jews, etc), the Iranians, the Afghanis and so many more races that it's basically a null descriptor. Africa's also pretty damn diverse - almost every state there is home a wide variety of peoples. And where would Hungarians fall? At best you're asking for a skintone poll; more likely you'd just end up with pure noise.
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egoist



Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 7762
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:43 pm Reply with quote
As you can see, talking about races is a pitfall no matter where you go. It's like poking a person's butthole.

This is like politics, just leave it alone.
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4620
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:46 pm Reply with quote
Well, the big problem is here that we Americans tend to see race as a lot simpler than it is - the checkboxes on the questionnaires only ever use broad, meaningless categories.

If you really wanted anything useful, the list gets big fast. Off the top of my head:

Germanic(Anglo, French, Scandanavian, etc)
Slavic(Russian, Polish, Serbian, etc)
Gaelic
Semitic(Arabian, Jewish, etc)
Iranian
Turkish
East Asian
Polynesian/Pacific Islander
Indian
Black African
North African
American Indian
Hispanic
Australian Aboriginal

And that list is still woefully incomplete.
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Tenbyakugon



Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 666
Location: Michigan, United States
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:04 am Reply with quote
Polycell wrote:
Well, the big problem is here that we Americans tend to see race as a lot simpler than it is - the checkboxes on the questionnaires only ever use broad, meaningless categories.

If you really wanted anything useful, the list gets big fast. Off the top of my head:

Germanic(Anglo, French, Scandanavian, etc)
Slavic(Russian, Polish, Serbian, etc)
Gaelic
Semitic(Arabian, Jewish, etc)
Iranian
Turkish
East Asian
Polynesian/Pacific Islander
Indian
Black African
North African
American Indian
Hispanic
Australian Aboriginal

And that list is still woefully incomplete.


You have to draw the line somewhere with such a list because of how large it would be. There should be as little of a problem with someone from China choosing Asian with someone from Saudi Arabia choosing Asian. I see no issue because both are from the Asian continent.

There's a fine line between race and ethnicity, a very fine line, which we Americans, reiterating what you'd said Polycell, tend to cross over inadvertently. Most of those you'd mentioned on that list are ethnicities.

Polycell wrote:
If you really wanted anything useful, the list gets big fast.


There's the problem, apparently. It's not intended to be useful. It'd be more out of interest than anything. It's not intended to be provocative, it's not supposed to cause a stir, Hell, it isn't even intended to start a conversation! (When I said I was coming from the angle of a Scantron sheet, I meant it; neutrality here above all else.) However, people will say what they want to. We should be able to have a peaceful dialogue about this if we want to. In the end, yes, they are just "skin tones", right?

Polycell wrote:
At best you're asking for a skintone poll; more likely you'd just end up with pure noise.
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:55 am Reply with quote
Tenbyakugon wrote:
You have to draw the line somewhere with such a list because of how large it would be. There should be as little of a problem with someone from China choosing Asian with someone from Saudi Arabia choosing Asian. I see no issue because both are from the Asian continent.
Then the "Asian" answer might as well not exist and be folded into "other". It's a big continent(plus the subcontinent) and the various races are worlds apart.
Quote:
There's a fine line between race and ethnicity, a very fine line, which we Americans, reiterating what you'd said Polycell, tend to cross over inadvertently. Most of those you'd mentioned on that list are ethnicities.
The technical fact that race is a subcomponent of ethnicity aside, most of those are not mere cultural groups. "Germanic" and "Slavic" are racial groups, as are "American Indian" and "Black African"(easily the two broadest groups on my list). I did name a few specific races, but honestly I don't know what group the Turks fall into besides "not Semitic", I don't know of any other actual Aryan races but the Iranians and the Aborigines are hardly African. "Black" and "white" are not races.
Quote:
There's the problem, apparently. It's not intended to be useful. It'd be more out of interest than anything. It's not intended to be provocative, it's not supposed to cause a stir, Hell, it isn't even intended to start a conversation! (When I said I was coming from the angle of a Scantron sheet, I meant it; neutrality here above all else.) However, people will say what they want to. We should be able to have a peaceful dialogue about this if we want to. In the end, yes, they are just "skin tones", right?
My wording is hardly relevant to my point - your ultrabroad categories fail to produce anything but meaningless noise. Would a poll about ANN users' racial backgrounds be interesting? Yes. Would a "which continent did your ancestors come from" poll be interesting? Almost certainly not.
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Tenbyakugon



Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 666
Location: Michigan, United States
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:44 pm Reply with quote
Polycell wrote:
Tenbyakugon wrote:
You have to draw the line somewhere with such a list because of how large it would be. There should be as little of a problem with someone from China choosing Asian with someone from Saudi Arabia choosing Asian. I see no issue because both are from the Asian continent.
Then the "Asian" answer might as well not exist and be folded into "other". It's a big continent(plus the subcontinent) and the various races are worlds apart.
Quote:
There's a fine line between race and ethnicity, a very fine line, which we Americans, reiterating what you'd said Polycell, tend to cross over inadvertently. Most of those you'd mentioned on that list are ethnicities.
The technical fact that race is a subcomponent of ethnicity aside, most of those are not mere cultural groups. "Germanic" and "Slavic" are racial groups, as are "American Indian" and "Black African"(easily the two broadest groups on my list). I did name a few specific races, but honestly I don't know what group the Turks fall into besides "not Semitic", I don't know of any other actual Aryan races but the Iranians and the Aborigines are hardly African. "Black" and "white" are not races.
Quote:
There's the problem, apparently. It's not intended to be useful. It'd be more out of interest than anything. It's not intended to be provocative, it's not supposed to cause a stir, Hell, it isn't even intended to start a conversation! (When I said I was coming from the angle of a Scantron sheet, I meant it; neutrality here above all else.) However, people will say what they want to. We should be able to have a peaceful dialogue about this if we want to. In the end, yes, they are just "skin tones", right?
My wording is hardly relevant to my point - your ultrabroad categories fail to produce anything but meaningless noise. Would a poll about ANN users' racial backgrounds be interesting? Yes. Would a "which continent did your ancestors come from" poll be interesting? Almost certainly not.


I'll remind you that it was I that mentioned the former of the two.

---

Anyway, it's a conversation such as this, as unsurprising as it was, that's not expedient to anything really. I believe the poll should exist, if authority disagrees, voice any objections please. If not, I request its creation.


Last edited by Tenbyakugon on Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Past



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 3235
Location: China (Searching for Jusenkyo)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:54 pm Reply with quote
I for one object to this poll. I created a sexual orientation poll because sex is interesting, I think many people are fascinated by the variety of preferences and sexual expression, and it's good to realize that - as the poll shows - the ANN community is not an entirely heterosexual one.

I see no value in doing the same with race. I already know there is a diverse international and multicultural crowd here. This is not a sociological experiment, there's no need for a poll on race, it's not pertinent to the appreciation of anime. Please lets just pass on it.
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Tenbyakugon



Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 666
Location: Michigan, United States
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:30 pm Reply with quote
I appreciate, and agree somewhat with, your input. Smile
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nobahn
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 4276
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:51 pm Reply with quote
Tenbyakugon--
Race/ethnicity is a human construct; Homo Sapiens devised the concepts in an attempt to order/classify the human race. Anthropologists abandoned the concept ages ago. I recommend that you do the same.

I, for one, will not touch that survey with a ten-foot pole.
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st_owly
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Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 5121
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:10 am Reply with quote
A nationality poll I could get behind, but race seems too much like playing with fire. If people want to comment in a nationality poll about their race, cool, but I don't think a poll is a good idea.
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Masakaki



Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Posts: 166
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:13 pm Reply with quote
[edit]

Last edited by Masakaki on Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tenbyakugon



Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 666
Location: Michigan, United States
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:20 pm Reply with quote
Too many options Laughing
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